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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!
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CarlosTheHyena

Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan 2017, 09:45    Post subject: Re: Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!
Subject description: Y not Puppy
 

847563 wrote:
Puppy is great and stable, but, IMO it still suffers a lot from old Dos type command strings which of course have to be syntactically correct to work. As a Windoze user this has largely been taken care of (which keeps their users dumb) but does usually achieve the end result. I don;t want to have to learn this stuff, just select from options and have it done.

Also the programs which are additionally loaded get put somewhere and I can't find where they are to install.

If I didn't have to struggle with these problems your usage would be much higher. Note that this has improved with new releases of self installing distros, but more needs to be done.

I am running this from a small usb stick on a win7 machine and love it's speed.

Cheers,

847563


I know exactly what you mean. And considering this thread is asking users for feedback and constructive criticism of puppy with a view to make Puppy more amenable to as many people as possible, it's really ironic that replies to your post are critical, unhelpful, sarcastic and rude. I've been there before.

But I agree, what we need a a new version of Puppy called NormalPuppy. For normal users who aren't interested in tinkering under the hood, but want something similar to Ubuntu. Kind of. eg installing program, you are right, why cant it be put in context menu right away with a message to that effect?

Anyway, my two-penny's worth,
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 11260
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan 2017, 14:36    Post subject:  

Hello Carlos.

Strange... When I install a new program from a *.pet archive, at the end of
the process, I always get a confirmation panel in the middle of the screen
saying something like "Program so-and-so has been installed".

Maybe I'm not understanding your question properly?

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"Logical entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." | |
« Il ne faut pas multiplier les entités logiques sans nécessité. » (Ockham)
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RichieO

Joined: 16 Feb 2017
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb 2017, 00:57    Post subject: Problem with downloading Puppy  

Hello!

I'm completely new here and I wanted to Puppy Linux today.
But I can't download it, yet, because I don't even know what to download.
The Puppy download sites are some of the most confusing sites I have ever seen.
Seems like they where made for chasing away all those interested.

1. Arrival at puppylinux.org
I see multiple links having the word 'download' in them. That's kind of unusual. I take the 'How to download Puppy Linux' link, because if they have special instrucstions on downloading PL, there might be a reason...

2. Opened 'How to download Puppy Linux'
The firste sentence on this page tells me, that 'Quirky Unicorn and Slacko Puppy 5.7 (Slackware-compatible) are in the latest release page.'

While assuming, that 'Quirky Unicorn' is the default, vanilla Puppy Linux, because it's written first, I wonder, why they had to take me on an extra page fpr telling me that.
As I'm new to Puppy Linux, I now know, that 'Quirky Unicorn' is what I want to have, because it seems to be the standard Puppy distribution.

3. Opened 'latest release page'
(3rd page on puppylinux.org, it's abotu time they show me the download I think..)
I'm searching the page fpr 'Quirky Unicorn', because No.2 made me think, that this was what I needed.
But:
There's nothing like 'Quirky Unicorn' on the whole page.
Then I think:
Maybe they forgot to refresh all those redundant download related pages, so possibly the latest release might be this one: 'Quirky Xerus'.

But:
Quirky Xerus is only there for Raspberry Pi, from the looks...

I search browsing through the remaining text..
I find a link fpr 'Slacko', but I don't know Slackware, and I want default Puppy..
I find a link to WindowsExe (for whatever version) but I don't have Windows.
I find a link for old versions, but I want the current one, as it was praised in the link that took me there!

Well.. it doesn't seem to be there.

Damn, this Puppy Linux has to be complicated, if I can't even figure how to download it!
Think I'll stay wih Xubuntu 16.10...

PS:
I noticed, that there are some typos in the post, after reading it in the forum.
But when I go to the editor, the font becomes so small, that I can hardly read my text there and my eyes start burning, so I can't fix this.
Sorry.
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01101001b


Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 15
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar 2017, 19:43    Post subject: Re: Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!
Subject description: Y not Puppy
 

CarlosTheHyena wrote:
847563 wrote:
Puppy is great and stable, but, IMO it still suffers a lot from old Dos type command strings which of course have to be syntactically correct to work. As a Windoze user this has largely been taken care of (which keeps their users dumb) but does usually achieve the end result. I don;t want to have to learn this stuff, just select from options and have it done.

Cheers,

847563


I know exactly what you mean. And considering this thread is asking users for feedback and constructive criticism of puppy with a view to make Puppy more amenable to as many people as possible, it's really ironic that replies to your post are critical, unhelpful, sarcastic and rude. I've been there before.

But I agree, what we need a a new version of Puppy called NormalPuppy. For normal users who aren't interested in tinkering under the hood, but want something similar to Ubuntu. Kind of. eg installing program, you are right, why cant it be put in context menu right away with a message to that effect?


Guys, you're missing the point. There's NO way a small system (like Puppy for instance) can do EVERYTHING you want, your way, *without* YOU tinkering it (!)

You, and only you, know what you want, like you want. Nobody else.

"Simplicity" means different things for different people. Your only chance is to try different systems until you find one that suits you better (but never perfectly, because it's *impossible* UNLESS *you make it*, and that condition was ruled out from the beginning).

Ubuntu, Wind*ws... are really big because they try to do everything simpler for the users (failing spectacularly sometimes). And it's ok. But even in them, sooner o later, you'll need to tinker something yourself (or get someone to fix it for you).

Luckily for all of us, there's plenty of options to choose from. But what you are asking for, as I see it, it's an impossibility. "Small" and eventual "tinkering" go hand in hand, inevitably. Sad
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01101001b


Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 15
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar 2017, 19:58    Post subject:  Re: Problem with downloading Puppy  

RichieO wrote:
Damn, this Puppy Linux has to be complicated, if I can't even figure how to download it!
Think I'll stay wih Xubuntu 16.10.

Every derivative from Puppy is really good. It's almost a matter of personal taste which to use. I use LxPup 16.07 (Xenial Xerus based) because it works better *for me* than LxPupSc (Slackware based).

In fact, I prefer 16.07 than the most recent, 16.08.2 (Xenial). LxPupSc most recent version is 17.03.1

You can download them from here. Hope this helps Smile

PS: Or if you're willing to try Puppy Linux in its original flavor Wink you can find it here
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Ananda98


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 6
Location: Bali, Indonesia

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 08:29    Post subject: Reply: Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too  

Hello
Before I go more far, I want to say sorry, because (maybe) my reply isn't tidy (I write it in my phone)

I used Puppy Linux from 2013. I used Puppy Linux 4.3 to fix my broken computer. But, it didn't help me a lot. My harddrive was broken after I tried to fix it using Puppy Linux. And, I stopped to use Linux for a years. But, I still remember when my friend surprised, when I told him that I used Linux (at that time, I was a junior high school student) hahaha...

In 2014, I use Puppy Linux again, to fix my 4.3 GB harddisk. Thanks God, in that time, I did correct things, and GParted work well for me. Over two years after that, I didn't use Puppy Linux again. I used Windows XP SP 3. Until, my 4.3 harddisk broke in this January.

When I got a new ones, I decided to use Puppy Linux again. Again, I use Puppy Linux 4.3, and I install it to my harddisk. My PC, Pentium IV with 256 RAM, still work fine after I installed Puppy. And, I decided to say Goodbye to Windows XP...

I have some suggestion to improve Puppy Linux development. Sorry if my English isn't good. I'm Indonesian.

1. Can I hibernate Puppy Linux? In Puppy Linux 4.3, I don't find Hibernate options. And I didn't find it in Slacko 6.3.
2. I think it will better if Puppy Linux has a website that contains list of packages or programs, so a newbie user can search program more easier. And, they can download it from another computer, and install it as easy as they do in Windows.
3. Maybe it will be good if a newbie user can find information about minimum requirements that they need to install or use Puppy Linux.
4. To get more fund for development, maybe it still good if some ads are shown in Puppy Linux websites.

Sorry if I made mistakes. I hope Puppy Linux development will run and run, from now until forever.
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 12:10    Post subject:  

Ananda98 wrote:
2. I think it will better if Puppy Linux has a website that contains list of packages or programs, so a newbie user can search program more easier. And, they can download it from another computer, and install it as easy as they do in Windows.

There are several online collections of Puppy programs, but unfortunately, no "complete" one that contains everything. (Which is understandable, considering that all Puppy developers are volunteers who do this work in their free time and aren't getting paid, so there is nobody who has the time and resources to maintain such a site.) Many Puppy developers have their own place to upload their stuff, and those sites are often just directories with unsorted file lists. (And often no indication which Puppy versions a package is compatible with.) There is also the "Additional Software" section of this forum, where you can download some things directly, and find download links to others.

Here are some sites that I know of; you could bookmark the ones that you find useful:

Software downloads

The official software repositories:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/ (for the main Puppy versions)
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/ (for Quirky, Wary/Racy, and Precise)

Some other sites with lots of Puppy programs:
http://shinobar.server-on.net/puppy/
http://smokey01.com/devs.html

A large collection of Puppy software gathered from many different places:
https://archive.org/browse.php?field=subject&collection=puppylinux

Specifically for Puppy 4 / older Puppies:
https://412collection.neocities.org/
http://dotpups.de/
http://dokupuppylinux.info/

General websites

Puppy's official websites:
http://puppylinux.com/
http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm

Puppy forums:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/ (The main forum.)
http://puppylinux.info/ (Not very active, it seems.)

The Puppylinux wiki contains a lot of information, although some of it is outdated:
http://www.puppylinux.org/wikka/HomePage

Puppy search:
http://wellminded.net63.net/
(The search for apps seems to come up only with results from Puppy 4 websites, though.)

BTW, @ everyone - is there already such a link list somewhere? I haven't come across any; neither the official sites, nor the wiki or this forum seem to have a good overview over Puppy's many resources.
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2176

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 15:03    Post subject:  

mostly_lurking wrote:
Ananda98 wrote:
2. I think it will better if Puppy Linux has a website that contains list of packages or programs, so a newbie user can search program more easier. And, they can download it from another computer, and install it as easy as they do in Windows.

There are several online collections of Puppy programs, but unfortunately, no "complete" one that contains everything.

The diversity of Puppies make it less suited to having packages listed such as on https://pkgs.org/
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3217
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 17:53    Post subject:  

I agree with mostly_lurking. There is no end of stuff out there.....but you do need to search for it. And Puppy is very much DIY.....

To me, Pup's greatest strength has always been how versatile it is; the sheer diversity of equipment it'll run on, of all kinds, types, and ages. And 01101001b is perfectly correct; to get a Pup working the way the individual wants it to does indeed require 'tinkering'. And that's one of the fun things about Puppy for me.....


Mike. Wink

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2176

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 19:59    Post subject: Re: Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!
Subject description: Y not Puppy
 

CarlosTheHyena wrote:
But I agree, what we need a a new version of Puppy called NormalPuppy. For normal users who aren't interested in tinkering under the hood, but want something similar to Ubuntu. Kind of. eg installing program, you are right, why cant it be put in context menu right away with a message to that effect?

Puppy distros/variations tend to do a great job of working across a wide range of hardware. To get the best however ideally you'd compile everything for your own particular hardware/system ... and that is where woofCE comes in. Two wide extremes, either the easy burn and go Ubuntu or Slackware "Normal" choices ... quick and easy to get going but likely have to tweak things; Or the install/use WoofCE

I'm more of a end-user so tend to go with the former choice. Oddly I've found dumping some of Puppy bloat helps in that respect and I now tend to build on a lean core command line only version and add xorg and jwm to that ... and install no gtk themes (just leave things at the in-coded defaults). Simpler and no gtk engines overheads. Almost all configuration can be contained within a single .jwmrc file. I find that the appearance is great that way, nice clear fonts ...etc. The downside is you're stuck with the older Raleigh type theme (hard coded), but frankly that doesn't bother me (I quite like its ergonomics, shiny modern or dark themes have little appeal to me (nice to initially look at, not always so good when used as a workhorse)).

Moving in that leaner direction took me away from Puppy however. Now I use Debian command line as the base to build upon as its repositories are massive and they roll out security fixes quickly. I also prefer pcmanfm over rox and use pcmanfm --desktop to provide desktop icons functionality. With live-boot added in, you can boot frugally similar to puppy. Best of both worlds IMO, good repositories, good security rollouts, nice and light.

I struggled with woof, but the instructions look a lot easier than when I last tried some years back. For the compile everything side of things I've recently started with FreeBSD. But like woof that involves more time (wating for things to build). For instance just Libreoffice build took 3 hours (compared to download and install a pre-build binary in seconds). Of the two FreeBSD is a lot easier than woof IMO, update ports and cd to the src folder of what you want to build and make install clean ... and wait (and wait) as it pulls down the required source code and builds ...etc.
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spiritwild


Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jul 2017, 23:02    Post subject:  

There are certain quirks that are annoying. I suppose if one is not familiar with linux they are stressful. if not for the people who create programs and lend their experience on this forum, it would be a complete horror. A person would have to realize that any open source program usually relies on volunteer effort and doesn't have to adhere to more stingy corporate Microsoft guidelines.

To me, over the last 10 or years it's been a learning curve mixed with challenges. It taught me discipline and when to walk away without killing or breaking something or someone. both maybe.

As far as public forums go, you can't read emotion very well. that's a dicipline in itself. I will admit, there are a few that can be taken wrong by how they convey there message. Except Mike walsh and musher0. I'm mostly an observer and learner but those two stand out as the most friendly people I've ever....read. LOL. Semme, if he is still around., has my respect for sheer wealth of knowledge packaged in a seemingly first glance textual arrogance.

Not a personal opinion of character, just easy to take the wrong way through grammar.

As far as an out of the box normal puppy, I dunno. Nothing is going to be like that. Never has for me. Reminds me, as a mechanic, I always wondered why there had to be so much complicated computerized equipment that seemed to change everyday. battery in the wheel well, in the trunk, under the seat. alarm systems tied into things that are not accessible to the average joe. I'd love to buy a car that had the simplicity of a Chinese scooter. Not gonna happen in the big corporate USA. Parts and service are a huge profit percentage. I just have to accept it. I could go to a motor forum and complain but that's not gonna change a dang thing. I just have to learn and adapt, take the good with the bad and try not to go mentally insane.
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Ananda98


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 6
Location: Bali, Indonesia

PostPosted: Mon 31 Jul 2017, 06:47    Post subject:  

@ mostly_lurking, @ rufwoof : Thanks for the list. Now, when I need some programs for my Puppy, I know where I should go. Thanks again! Smile

@ Mike Walsh : I like tinkering, but only when I have time... Now, after passed exam, I have time for tinkering, especially in holiday.

@spiritwild : Hahaha... Smile You're correct. When I meet Puppy Linux in the first time, I was stress, because I can't connect to the Internet.

Just suggestion to fund Puppy Linux project, or maybe to pay host bill, so I suggest to put some ads in Puppy Linux website. Same as Pale Moon website or Linux Mint website. Just suggestion, and please don't be angry because my suggestion Smile
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LarryNG

Joined: 25 Sep 2017
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 23:43    Post subject: Thank you Puppy!
Subject description: newbie intro
 

To everyone who contributed to Puppy, thank you thank you thank you! I have been using Puppy for years, usually as a live CD for servicing Windows PCs because it has all of the wanted utilities included, but mostly because it always works. I now keep a slightly modified (only changed the default wallpaper and theme) Puppy Tahr64 on a USB drive to boot a PC when I have a gnawing to use something Linux. (I'm currently stuck using two Windows 8.1 PCs for business needs, but the Puppy USB lets me boot into 'my' world in less than a minute.)

Of all the many different hardware setups I have used Puppy on, Puppy always worked. For my own computers I use low wattage setups that are sometimes difficult to setup with proper drivers (Windows and Linux both), but Puppy works flawlessly and fast.

I am new to the Pale Moon browser, but I like the simplicity, so for me it is fun to learn a new setup and discover how to tweak it to my preferences. YouTube complained about Pale Moon being 'too old' to play HTML5 videos (a fun project for me to find the cause), but that has been the one and only imperfectness of Puppy's setup.

Like I told my wife, my honest opinion is that Puppy is geek genius! I have a tall stack of Linux distros of many flavors, but Puppy is the only one I use now. I still don't understand though, I am overly picky about GUI themes (usually to an uncomfortable extreme because I have to stare at the same screens all day), but Puppy makes the lightweight themes look good and fun. Has to be geek genius! Smile

I just wanted to tell everyone who contributed to Puppy that I sincerely do very much appreciate your work. Thank you!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2057
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 26 Sep 2017, 03:56    Post subject: We don't have any control over the real problem  

Hi All,

Those who have found their way to this Forum without investing too much time in installing a version of Puppy have avoided most of the problems newbies encounter. Here they'll find Puppy versions which will work out of the box on their relatively modern computers, older Puppies for older computers, Puppies for special purposes, and a welcoming crew who will guide them.

The problem is that this Forum may not be where newbies start. Unfortunately, it somehow never got to be standard practice for bloggers and posters to date their posts. Even if they were familiar with Puppy when they posted and their recommendations valid at the time of that post, chances are that those posts are out of date. Try installing Ubuntu Dapper Dan today and see how sophisticated it is, and how functional it is in today's environment. Then try to get someone knowledgeable on a Ubuntu website to explain how to fix it.

I'll bet the answer you get is "Un-install Dapper Dan and install the latest version."

We can't control the vast amount of mis-information and out of date information out there. Suggestions on how to deal with it, and the newbies who have been lead astray are welcome.

mikesLr
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