XenialDog 64bit (Ubuntu 'Xenial Xerus' LTS, 64-bit)

[The Flying Cat]

Hello mikeslr
If you want to add (compatible) PPA to Zesty, via command at least, it goes like this:
add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers
ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers xenial -> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ppa_oibaf_graphics-drivers.list
...
Success: 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/oibaf/graphics-drivers/ubuntu xenial main' is added to the repositories
There should be 'zesty' instead. And PPA will use xenial dependencies... So just erase 'xenial' and write 'zesty' in the config file or via gui (Software & Updates) manually before updating or installing anything after adding PPA.

[mikeslr]

Thanks, The Flying Cat. Very helpful.


Thanks, rufwoof, backi and fred for the information regarding the capabilities of other window-managers and their addons.

mikesLr

[fredx181]

For clarity about add-apt-repository, there are two on ZestyDog:

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root@zesty64:~/Desktop# whereis add-apt-repository
add-apt-repository: /usr/bin/add-apt-repository /usr/local/bin/add-apt-repository
root@zesty64:~/Desktop#

- The one in /usr/local/bin is from XenialDog, which is a self made script (to avoid installing lots of dependencies), the default is "xenial", but works for other releases if you add add the name as argument, like this:

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add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers zesty

- The one in /usr/bin is the official (part of package "software-properties")
Since the official is installed it's best to rename or delete /usr/local/bin/add-apt-repository (as /usr/local/bin is first in PATH), then instead the official will be used and this is better because it detects the release automatically, so no need to add it to the command, just:

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add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers

Fred

[The Flying Cat]

Ooh, neat:) Thank you, Fred!
I guess I'll update original post, just in case)

[fredx181]

Hi All,

New versions of packages:
- quick-remaster, version 1.0.8, added option to create ISO from frugal install, see more info here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 454#954454
And here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 539#954539
Install from terminal:

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apt-get update
apt-get install quick-remaster 

- Fix for xenialdoginstall script, see backi's post here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 687#954687
And reply here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 700#954700
Install from terminal version 1.0.9:

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apt-get update
apt-get install xenialdoginstallscripts 

Or install from Synaptic

Added to Changes and Fixes list (5 and 6)

Fred

[Doglover]

Nice job Fred. I'm liking the Zesty because youtube audio doesn't work in Xenial. Also audacious is updated which is the best of all.

Full install
64g cruzer usb3
Hp Pavilion amd quad running at 2000
16g ram
pulse audio is best

This stick screams past anything else. Just as fast as a hd install.

[backi]

Hi Doglover !

You did a full Install to your Usb-Stick ? Is it correct ?

It is recommended to do a " frugal " Install with the "Dogs " and Puppy Linux on
UsB and Hard-drive too .It is also faster and more easier to backup .

I am not sure if doing a full Install is a good Idea .... there would be constant writing to the Stick ,which , so some People say ,will cause your stick wearing out faster.
But maybe somebody else knows more about it .

Regards !
Here is some Discussion about this Topic :
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2032379

[Doglover]

Hi Backi.... yep it's a full install.
Boots in 11 seconds and shuts down in 3.
I really don't care about writes to the stick, it should last five years.
Firefox loads in about 6 seconds. yay

Try it you will like it.

[backi]

Hi Doglover !
" Boots in 11 seconds and shuts down in 3.Firefox loads in about 6 seconds "

I'm not that much in a hurry Doglover .
But maybe i try it .....out of curiosity ...... sounds cool .

What about a frugal Install to Stick ......and booted with copy to Ram (copy2ram) option .........should be even faster with that 16 gigs of Ram .
Your system then should work even faster than Light .
Maybe Firefox would even start without touching Keyboard .
(just kidding )

Me.... i would do that ........ if i could .....

But just 1 gig of Ram .

[Doglover]

Hi Backi...

Full install boots up entirely in ram, any changes are stored in ram until shutdown.

Frugal install.... savefile needs to be .dat, and it takes a minute or so to finish the write. If you opt for a save folder, then it will write to the hd and I don't want that.

Cheers

[backi]

Full install boots up entirely in ram, any changes are stored in ram until shutdown.

Did not know .
Are you sure ?
Can anybody else explain ?

Frugal install.... savefile needs to be .dat, and it takes a minute or so to finish the write. If you opt for a save folder, then it will write to the hd and I don't want that.

Somehow a bit confusing your Statements .
You could do a frugal Install with Option to Save only on Demand ( or choose to save or not to save at Shutdown ) to Usb

So (for Example) the menu.lst would look like if frugal Install is on Usb .
changes (save Folder) is in /XENIALDOG/casper/changes ......on Usb


# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.9.2
color blue/cyan yellow/blue white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Xenial Dog - porteus-boot - save on EXIT changes=/XENIALDOG/changes folder
find --set-root /XENIALDOG/casper/vmlinuz
kernel /XENIALDOG/casper/vmlinuz from=/XENIALDOG noauto changes=EXIT:/XENIALDOG/casper/ ramsize=100%
initrd /XENIALDOG/casper/initrd1.xz

No Saving to Hardisk .---saving occurs only on Demand to Usb .
No saving during Session ......except you want to.
But not working in Ram.

Using :
kernel /casper/vmlinuz noauto from=/ copy2ram changes=EXIT:/XENIALDOG/casper/

Would cause loading to ram (if i am right ) with choice to save on Demand too .

But don`t get me wrong Doglover.......don`t want you converting to frugal Installation .
More on the Topic :
Frugal vs full installation: any difference in speed?

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72889

[rufwoof]

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# menu.lst
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
timeout 1
default 2

title FILESYSTEM.SQUASHFS READ ONLY
find --set-root /menu.lst
kernel /vmlinuz boot=live
initrd /initrd.img

title PERSISTENCE READ ONLY
find --set-root /menu.lst
kernel /vmlinuz boot=live persistence persistence-read-only
initrd /initrd.img

title PERSISTENCE ONLY HOME RW
find --set-root /menu.lst
kernel /vmlinuz boot=live persistence
initrd /initrd.img

title Debian FULL *** USE THIS TO UPGRADE KERNEL ***  Full RW 
  find --set-root /menu.lst
  configfile /boot/grub/menu.lst.mine
  commandline

I have four ways set to boot. The first uses everything stored in the main sfs (filesystem.squashfs) and takes 15 seconds to boot on this old 10+ year clunker (2GB/4 core). But that's a full Debian Gnome desktop with loads of stuff installed (1.5GB to 2GB sfs size) such as Kodi, Libre ...etc. Nothing is saved.

The second is similar, boots with the / folder/partition being the 'save space' and takes around 24 seconds to boot. Nothing is saved.

The third has persistence.conf with a /home entry ... so only changes under /home are preserved. Again takes around 24 seconds to boot (systemd-analyze reported value).

The last is a full boot, where grub4dos menu.lst simply chains to the Grub menu.lst to boot as though a fully installed setup. Again around 24 seconds bootup time.

That's all systemd style boot, using a partition type save-space.

Mostly I boot the third choice where only /home changes persist (configuration changes, diary, browser history/bookmarks ...etc.). I use the 4th 'full' style to apply updates ... and recreate a new filesystem.squashfs. The 1st and 2nd are similar read only sessions ... useful for trying things out where nothing is saved/changed. With a script similar to save2flash 1 and 2 can have changes being preserved at a time of your choosing (whenever you run the script).

That's all on my sda1 which is a ext3 format partition. I also have other choices of frugal boot (puppy like) folders (along with additional menu.lst entries that enable those to be booted). I also have other choices that are stored on a 2nd HDD so if the first drive has problems I might still be able to boot those, or if the first HDD has completely died boot those other choices with a bootable USB that has grub4dos/menu.lst.

I have seen some report boot times of 5 seconds, but haven't managed to break the 10 second barrier myself. Not that that particularly bothers me as I'm old-school of press the power on button and then go off to boil a kettle/brew before returning with the desktop ready to go.

I run without a swap partition/file and have no problems. If I were doing something heavy then I always have the option to create and activate a swap file specifically for that task. More usually libre, firefox, kodi ...etc once read in once remain memory bound (slower to initially start the first time than if restarted a second/subsequent time). Libre writer for instance might take a few seconds to start up the first time its loaded after booting, but is near instant to start thereafter.

Rather than a dedicated save partition, you can have a file filesystem. Under debian for instance that just has to be named persistence and have the persistence.conf file within the root level within that file filesystem. Under Ubuntu I believe its called casper or casper-rw ... or something like that (.dat file that Doglover described).

[Doglover]

@Backi..
Here is my setup

I don't use a swap file.
Journaling is disabled.
I fudged a little on the boot time, more like 15 seconds.
Shutdown is 2 seconds.

You need usb 3.0.

@Rufwoof..

The reason I went to a full install is to not write to the hard drive. Not a big thing but still desirable.

Sticks are so cheap these days.

[fredx181]

Full install boots up entirely in ram, any changes are stored in ram until shutdown.

How you do that, full install in RAM?

Fred

[Doglover]

Hi Fred, I did not do anything,left the filesystem alone but it is real.

Look at this....

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM

[Doglover]

When system is idle 225 mb

With firefox 550 mb

With audacious 320 mb

Where is the screenshot app?

Another link

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1594694

[rufwoof]

As a comparison, frugal booted ...

88MB idle



255MB with firefox



Most recent debian jessie update, running jwm/rox



Screenshots taken using command

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mtpaint -s

(I have Alt-F2 setup to run gmrun (command prompt) and I just type that mtpaint -s command into that window).

[backi]

Hi Doglover !
Frugal is the Future ......or more the Present .

Although myself see more advantage in frugal Installs over full Installs ......find your Informations quite interesting ......was thinking full Installs could not go to ram .
But i am a bit skeptical about it ..... can`t see any Benefit from it , if i can accomplish it with frugal on a System ( in my case 1 Gig Ram ) much lighter to my Ram and System .
Makes my old ,more than 10 years old Clunker (Toshiba Satellite 3000 ---1 gig Ram --single Core ) fly like Starship Enterprise .
I was hoping he would die soon,so i could buy a new " better " One .
But it does not happen .The " Frugal Concept " made obviously some rejuvenating Effects to this old Horse .So probably i will die before i need to buy a new , modern One

See rufwoof`s screenshots above .

The frugal Installations let you easily Backup and /or Restore your System in a Blink of the Eye.
Dont know if one do oneself a favor using Full Install .
Maybe there are Arguments for it .......would be interested .

The "frugal Concept " and " Saving on Demand " makes , in my Opinion ,the "Dogs " and Puppies so outstanding......and that`s why i am using and prefer them over Full Install.
Me i am just an "Old School " Guy , but i find Hard-Disk Installs too "Old School " .
That`s why i converted to Puppy .

Won`t somehow disrespect the Puppies.... a revolutionary Concept .....thank you Barry Kauler and all you Guys ....But the "Dogs" were the next logical Step evolving Puppies further .

Think "Frugal " is more sophisticated and flexible .....and so for me are the " Dogs " over Puppies .......one Step ahead... Puppy grown up and matured .
I know the "Dogs" are not really Puppies.
But call them ( just for Fun ) :
Puppy Linux on Steroids .

Regards

[fredx181]

Hi Fred, I did not do anything,left the filesystem alone but it is real.

Look at this....

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM

Hi Doglover,
What I read there is not about full install, it's about a live system
kernel boot command line:

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kernel /casper/vmlinuz boot=casper toram splash

Perhaps there's confusion about what you actually call a full install.
What is your boot command line?

It seems possible loading a full install to RAM, but lots of RAM required, e.g. 6-8 GB (depending on the size of the system of course) and a modified intrd, for example see here:
http://www.elettronicaopensource.com/in ... 32&lang=en

The startup may take up to 10 minutes depending on which hard drive you have and how much space occupies your linux system

You need usb 3.0

Yes, that should make it a lot faster, and it depends on the speed/quality of the USB-stick too
(I have a Sandisk Cruzer Contour, it's 5 times faster than any other USB-stick I have, I got only usb 2.0 btw)

Fred

[rufwoof]

mfb PM'd me about using grun instead of gmrun. Nice (thanks mfb). grun is pre-emptive, so type gal for instance and it will offer galculator.

I'm using a single ~/.jwmrc file with no pipe menus or anything like that, just 3 (now, was just two) menu options of RUN (grun, that also can be activated with Alt-F2), system (that puts up a gtkdialog of logout, reboot, shutdown ...etc), and Applications (that opens pcmanfm menu://applications, from where you can select either the sub-section (Office, Accessories ...etc) and then click to run any program within that, or click on 'Applications' to see all /usr/share/applications files (.desktop files).

That's automatically dynamic, accounts for new programs being added or removed, and avoids having to maintain (albeit via a automated script) the main jwm menu. Alongside desktop icons works quite nicely IMO.


(image shows both menu://applications and /usr/share/applications open, but in practice only menu://applications opens when the jwm menu Applications button is clicked ... a pcmanfm bookmark could enable /usr/share/applications to be more directly opened from that window).

Along with brightside (hot corners) and skippy-xd (not in debian repository, has to be installed from elsewhere) that's activated by brightside (for whichever corner/side you set that to be) and shows a tiled arrangement of all open/minimised windows ... and it can be set up to be quite similar to the gnome desktop. Have the top left corner as presenting skippy-xd, and with grun preemptive searching, along with pcmanfm showing all available applications and that mostly reflects the much heavier/bloated gnome desktop layout/style. Make the bottom panel auto-hide and it reflects the gnome notification area. OK not as tidy/consistent as gnome, but easier to operate in practice IMO (gnome's bottom pop-up needs you to mouse down in a downward stroke manner through the bottom of the screen and doesn't respond well IME (sometimes doesn't pop up as easily as you'd prefer, sometimes pops up when you don't want it to). Overall a puppy/dog alternative as outlined above is more usable (gnome desktop looks nice, but when it comes to do real work its rather heavy going IMO and soon has you reverting to a more conventional desktop style/layout).