DD (openbox)/XenialDog General Discussion Thread

[dancytron]

/stuff snipped

Well, I'd like to (even now I am still continuing with searching for improvements or fixing bugs) and it would be the right time, now that Stretch became stable, to do further developments on that, opening a new thread would be the most constructive because of the user feedback (and/or any other help, just me working alone certainly isn't getting the most out of it) .

/stuff snipped

Any thoughts, suggestions?

And... thanks,

Fred

I suggest you use Firefox ESR from the repository. As a default, it comes the closest to meeting the most people's needs and more importantly, you won't have to keep it up to date, since the people maintaining the repository will do that for you. Palemoon was nice, but I don't think it is worth the trouble.

[muggins]

I've not posted here before and, even though it's off topic, thought i'd quote U. G. Krishnamurti from his book the mystique of enlightenment:

My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.

[dancytron]

I've not posted here before and, even though it's off topic, thought i'd quote U. G. Krishnamurti from his book the mystique of enlightenment:

My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.

Which is another way to say, "all original works contained herein are dedicated to the public domain without limitation or condition."

[saintless]

The reply was a big NO...

Just for 'history'... oh boy. Just ignore.

Don't be shy William.
Share the rest of my answer so others can read the reason for this NO then (while Fred wasn't answering to me). I guess you don't have it? Here it is (don't thank me, I'm glad to help always for making the things more clear for everybody):

From: saintless
To: "]
Posted: Sun 26 Mar 2017, 08:18
Subject: Re: pure Debian cut down

So instead of Fred having to go through the many many scripts a statement could simply be published in similar to tinycore linux fashion.

I haven't mentioned this to Fred yet, but could do - I can't see any objection since no extra work involved.

What do you think?

William

Hi William.

Thanks for your suggestion, but No.

Part of the work on the scripts included in DebianDog is mine also. Not only Fred's. I've invested a lot of time in testing, finding and fixing bugs in the code in most (if not all) DebianDog scripts. He could fix this by mentioning my work inside and adding gpl license but he didn't. Fred knows I would not work on anything that isn't gpl. He doesn't want to admit this and he still posts scripts without license, credits, sources (even the simple install scripts posted in your D-core thread as you know) This scripts contains code from other person not even mentioned BTW and you know my opinion about this. I don't like that and I will not use such scripts.
And I already have almost everything I need rewritten as command line bash/dash version with sources, credits and license inside.

I don't like Fred's behaviour about licenses and missing credist and sources links in "his" scripts. Especially because he knew from the very start my opinion about this while starting the DebianDog development. It's a shame the Puppy linux community supports such behaviour. This why I will not use anything from Fred in the future and I'm not sure I like to contribute to the Puppy linux community anymore.

I try to play fair and I'm not afraid to admit my mistakes and give my apology when needed. Maybe Fred will mature enough to do the same one day.

Best wishes to you, William.
Toni

Edit: And your anwer to this:

From: mcewanw
To: saintless
Posted: Mon 27 Mar 2017, 03:14
Subject: Re: pure Debian cut down Quote message
Hi Toni,

I understand your point of view.

I actually also don't like scripts missing the actual source/person who wrote it - even when just a couple of lines of code it must have an original source somewhere which should be acknowledged. Unfortunately, there is a terrible habit on Puppy Forum of people taking credit for code simply because they first posted about it on the forum, or stuck it pretty much unaltered in a shell script, and sometimes they don't even give the url they found it from (why? status? hiding imagined secrets? - we can all use google...).

I think now that BarryK has 'retired', there is little or no sense of direction left and a lot of mayhem and the forum has become far too casual altogether.

Cheers,

William

I also find the first post very strange:

For users of DebianDog only.

Note that this is a maintenance thread for already existing Puppy Forum created DebianDogs only and not intended for major new developments.

saintless and anikin comments are not welcome and should not be responded to or even read. Please remind me if I forget.

This thread IS NOT for XenialDog-related issues, since that is a separated puppified Ubuntu-live based project.


Some older debiandog info can be found via here: https://github.com/DebianDog

Newer Toni (saintless) DebianDog-related Retro Debian Sources github site under development here:

https://github.com/MintPup/Retro-Debian-Sources

Only for debiandog... not for xenialdog... dont respond saintless... newer debiandog related from saintless (not actually in any way related to debiandog but anyway). I'm confused

Ignore please. This is only for someone who wants to hear both sides.

Toni

[saintless]

Let's be honest - though Fred joined in development a very little while later than you...

Really? Honest? Lets be honest then:

NOTE: I certainly do not deny your (Toni) contribution long before the DebianDog project itself began and I do think Fred should also be considering how you must feel, despite his obvious anger against you. That's a major reason I'm not walking away:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 761#595761

Nooby, thanks for your criticism about log in option. It made me try something and it worked better than I thought.


Sickgut, Pussy linux is ready for public review even for people with none linux experience.

Here is my last modified code in grub:

Code: Select all

title Pussy Linux Beta 2 
rootnoverify (hd0,0) 
kernel /live/vmlinuz boot=live config persistent swapon quickreboot noprompt autologin username=root password=pussy 
initrd /live/initrd.img 
boot

When I boot up with this code I go straight to X screen as root.
You don't have to type startx even.

If we use the modified files from Aarf we can make Pussy linux to boot up straight to Rox-filer background.

o m g

thanks saintless.... again and again
i scanned everything i could read about booting debian live base and there was never mention of that easy to do solution. Ive asked time and time again on their support channel with no response at all.

well this puts things in a whole new light now.

Confused again...

Ignore please. This is only for someone who wants to hear both sides.

Toni

[backi]

We should handle it consequently ......What/who causes the "Big Bang"......created life and universe .But more important .....where is the license ?
Although sometimes finding it quite amusing , i am not really interested (anymore) in this old feuds ....This noise just causing me head-aches .
It sounds like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R2htxCrw6U

"where is the license ? " will someday become a kind of phrase/idiom like "Bob`s your Uncle " ....but who`s got the license ?

[mcewanw]

The reply was a big NO...

Just for 'history'... oh boy. Just ignore.

Don't be shy William.
Share the rest of my answer so others can read the reason for this NO then (while Fred wasn't answering to me). I guess you don't have it?

For anyone who wonders why I didn't share the posted reason - I actually did on first posting and wanted to leave it but realised it was bad etiquete to publish without permission what was sent by replier as a PM (Private Message). Glad the nonsense "reason" got posted by its originator since better shows the rubbish excuse. Trying as I was to be super-kid-glove sensitive at the time I did off course reply to the stupid reason with ridiculous "kindness" (metaphorically biting my tongue in the process)!!! :-)

As for the name of this thread originally being for "DebianDog Project Maintenance" - that's cos the forum moderators (or someone with such powers) deleted any attempt by be to open up a project maintenance thread for anything relating to XenialDog at that time when Toni and Fred had caused ALL DebianDog and XenialDog and MintPup-related main threads to be frozen (which effectively destroyed the projects being participated in by the community). I will change the thread title for the obnoxious whom I don't want posting on here (even though all the mainly used DebianDog variations that use openbox come from Fred anyway.

Continuing to be harrassed by those we should ignore ignore ignore.

William

[backi]

"ignore ignore ignore" ....should be used as some kind of " Mantra " ........

Will going to try .......maybe helps ...

[saintless]

Trying as I was to be super-kid-glove sensitive at the time I did off course reply to the stupid reason with ridiculous "kindness" (metaphorically biting my tongue in the process)!!!

Cheep excuse again. Seems familiar already comparing your posts from the past.

(even though all the mainly used DebianDog variations that use openbox come from Fred anyway.

Now is the time Fred to confirm DebianDog openbox version is solely made by him and I don't have any part in it. Go for it Fred. "Correct" the history with William.

Eat your popcorns and enjoy backi

Toni

[mcewanw]

ignore...

[mcewanw]

As for DD openbox (in addition to XenialDog), since that is what this general discussion thread is all about now:

I kind of remember, Fred, that you originally intended opening a separate fork/thread for that since it had so many differences from that early version of DebianDog already being developed. However, the person who had initiated, who took the name DebianDog following various community suggestions, didn't seem particularly excited to have an alternative openbox version developed in a separate thread (at that time). Hard to control I suppose, though later it was obvious one thread was completely insufficient for all the variations being produced - should have been forked completely right from that early start I say with hindsight with perhaps some cooperation between the fork developers rather than a hard to work with joint effort.

Good that is all fixed now, and everyone can now move on and keep to their own project threads and github page resources.

William

EDIT: some people clearly find it very difficult (impossible?) to move on - can take them years anyway it seems. I have admittedly had to resort to a lot of painful-for-me "double-speak" postings (kid-gloves, as I said) when it came to me trying to diplomatically help the poor souls get over their jealous feelings. My apologies for that unintended "insincerity" - I imagine most people could see what I was faced with in terms of trying to resolve the tantrums. Of course I have to except answers to that - but thereafter indeed: ignore ignore ignore and move on with the work...

[saintless]

...should have been forked completely right from that early start I say with hindsight with perhaps some cooperation between the fork developers rather than a hard to work with joint effort.

Good that is all fixed now, and everyone can now move on and keep to their own project threads and github page resources.

The wisdom comes back to you, William. Congratulations
This is what I try to make you understand the last few days:

DebianDog is in very good hands now - the gentle hands of free open source project. As it was and always should be.

Here is the ilcense backi:

"where is the license ?

https://github.com/DebianDog/Jessie/blo ... es/LICENSE

Can you all stop now all this barking about something already solved the best possible way?

Or just ignore and continue. I will get some popcorns too.

Toni

[mcewanw]

that's fine. No problem.

[saintless]

.

[mcewanw]

ignore

[fredx181]

I suggest you use Firefox ESR from the repository. As a default, it comes the closest to meeting the most people's needs and more importantly, you won't have to keep it up to date, since the people maintaining the repository will do that for you. Palemoon was nice, but I don't think it is worth the trouble.

Yes, I agree, tested latest Firefox ESR now and seems to me the Debian version doesn't require pulseaudio (glad it doesn't, I've read that Ubuntu Firefox version does)

I kind of remember, Fred, that you originally intended opening a separate fork/thread for that since it had so many differences from that early version of DebianDog already being developed. However, the person who had initiated, who took the name DebianDog following various community suggestions, didn't seem particularly excited to have an alternative openbox version developed in a separate thread (at that time). Hard to control I suppose, though later it was obvious one thread was completely insufficient for all the variations being produced - should have been forked completely right from that early start I say with hindsight with perhaps some cooperation between the fork developers rather than a hard to work with joint effort.

Well, as far I can remember, I didn't intend opening a separate thread (was just mentioning it as one of the options I wouldn't really like), there came a peaceful agreement at that time to release 2 ISO's.
I think it was nice concept, choice of: One ISO (JWM) as light it could possibly be, suitable for very old (low-ram) computers and one with some more bells and whistles (openbox_xfce), and underneath both being basically the same. This 2 ISO concept worked well for a long time IMO, however there was some confusion sometimes about which version used (if someone forgot to mention that).

Further (more in general), I think it doesn't have to be a problem on itself that people have different opinions, e.g. "conservative" can work together with "progressive" as long there is respect for each others opinion.
(and if that respect is gone somehow or any other reason for not wanting to work together anymore, at least have the dignity to leave someone do his thing without bothering)

There's so much more I could possibly reply or comment on, but best IMO is to focus on now and the future.

Good to see you showing more of a "real William" (" Aguirre,The Wrath of God ", indeed very humorous backi!), without putting on any peacemaker-gloves or whatever.

Fred

[backi]

......ignore....
............test.....test.....test..........

[zagreb999]

WELCOME FRED!

YOU CAN OPEN NEW THREAD ON
WORDPRESS FREE ABOUT YOUR
PROJECTS, WHERE YOU CAN WORK IN
PEACE. YOU CAN DELETE ANY INTERVENTION
AS YOU WISH.
---------
IN THIS PUPPY FORUM WE DO NOT HAVE A
PEACE, AS DANYCTRON TOLD.

REGARDS

[mcewanw]

optimistically, maybe it will all settle down peacefully now that we have so many things off all our backs, as long as no-one gets pushy or possessive. Delicacy not pomposity - I mean but with some magnamity.

Let's get/move on then.

[rufwoof]

So ironic wee-willy. Your tag shows NZ location, but you talk Scotland, but persona Neverland.