Puppy 32bit and 64bit on the same USB?

[Marble42]

Hi guys. I was wondering if it's possible to carry both 32 and 64bit versions of Puppy on the same USB - (since I have two 64bit laptops, and one that's 32bit) and if yes, are there are any complications involved?

[rcrsn51]

ISObooter.

[Mike Walsh]

^^ +1.

It's eminently possible to have both on the same 'stick'; you can, after all, only run one at a time. Hence, there can't possibly be any 'conflicts'.


Mike.

[Marble42]

Awesome. Thanks!

[peterw]

I use another technique to run 2 or more Puppies on a USB. It is:
1. Prepare USB stick by wiping it and giving it 2 partitions. I normally use EXT2 for the biggest partition (Partition1) and FAT32 for partition 2. Partition2 is only needed if I want to transfer some files to a running Windows machine and it can read Fat32. Make partition 1 bootable by setting the boot flag on it.
2. Inside partion1 create directories such as Slacko32, Slacko64, Tahr and Fatdod.
3. Open up the isos of the respective Distros and copy their contents into their respective directories.
4. Run Grub4Dos making it search in the USB only. And make sure that Grub4Dos is installed on the USB stick.
And hopefully it should all work although not for a Windows UEFI machine without legacy boot enabled.

[bigpup]

4. Run Grub4Dos making it search in the USB only

Also, when running Grub4dos bootloader config, choose to install Grub4dos to the USB.

[peterw]

Bigpup.
Thanks for the clarification. I will edit the original to make sure no one gets led astray.

[bigpup]

Your method is basically how I installed 10 different Puppies to a USB hard drive.
I have 7 partitions on it.

I do use this program, running in a Puppy, to do the installs.
YaPI
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601

After the install, It automatically has you run Grub4dos Config to update the boot menu.

[B.K. Johnson]

peterw wrote:

I use another technique to run 2 or more Puppies on a USB. It is:
1. Prepare USB stick by wiping it and giving it 2 partitions. I normally use EXT2 for the biggest partition (Partition1) and FAT32 for partition 2. Partition2 is only needed if I want to transfer some files to a running Windows machine and it can read Fat32. Make partition 1 bootable by setting the boot flag on it.
2. Inside partion1 create directories such as Slacko32, Slacko64, Tahr and Fatdod.

bigpup wrote:

Your method is basically how I installed 10 different Puppies to a USB hard drive.
I have 7 partitions on it.

isobooter uses 2 partitions.

Wait a minute! When did this necessity to have 2 partition materialize? Or, when and why was it considered necessary to have one puppy per partition?
Was it with the introduction of Grub4DOS?
Was it with Barry's Quirkies and image files - 1 Quirky per flash drive?
Was it Microsoft's introduction of installing Windows from a flash drive - 1 Windows O/S per flash drive?
Was it the start of using isohybrids?
Was it influenced by plop, unetbootin or some other loader designed for a single o/s installation?
Which? Or is there another reason/explanation? Why was it considered necessary to have 2 partitions for multiple puppies?

I have been running multiple puppies from a single flash drive in a single FAT32 formatted partition since 2009; my last installation was tahr--6.0.2 and 6.0.5. But when installing tahr-6.0.6 using the same proc I have used for 8 years, it doesn't work.

Some answers please. And I want to hear from bigpup, mick01, rcrn51, mavrathol ...

[jafadmin]

Here's the menu.lst from the Sandisk USB thumb in my pocket:

Code: Select all

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.8.0
color light-blue/black green/black light-blue/black black/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 5
default 0

title 571+
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /571+/vmlinuz   psubdir=571+ pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /571+/initrd.gz

title 571 RAM
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /571+/vmlinuz   psubdir=571+ pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram
  initrd /571+/initrd.gz
  
title 571 Purple
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /571-Purple/vmlinuz   psubdir=571-Purple pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /571-Purple/initrd.gz 
   
title Fatdog64
  kernel /Fatdog64/boot/vmlinuz   psubdir=boot pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck coldplug savefile=ram:uuid:16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758:/Fatdog64/fd64save_dmcrypt_thumb.ext4 waitdev=5
  initrd /Fatdog64/boot/initrd
    
title SailPup-571
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /SailPup-571/vmlinuz   psubdir=SailPup-571 pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /SailPup-571/initrd.gz      

title 571retro
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /571r/vmlinuz   psubdir=571r pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /571r/initrd.gz

title 571r RAM
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /571r/vmlinuz   psubdir=571r pmedia=usbflash pfix=ram
  initrd /571r/initrd.gz
   
title 571r Router
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /router/vmlinuz   psubdir=router pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /router/initrd.gz  

title 528
  uuid 16d967c5-c906-42f5-bc3f-61782a7ad758
  kernel /528/vmlinuz   psubdir=528 pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck
  initrd /528/initrd.gz
  
# Advanced Menu
title  
  is64bit

title Additionals:
  is64bit

# Boot these ISO files  on the FAT32 partition (hd0,0)
title Clonezilla i686 PAE
partnew (hd0,3) 0x00 (hd0,0)/ISOs/clonezilla-live-2.4.2-61-i686-pae.iso
map --heads=0 --sectors-per-track=0 (hd0,0)/ISOs/clonezilla-live-2.4.2-61-i686-pae.iso (0xff) 
map --hook 
root (0xff) 
chainloader (0xff)     

title SCE 32 Mate ISO (P2V)
partnew (hd0,3) 0x00 (hd0,0)/ISOs/sce32-mate-p2v.iso
map --heads=0 --sectors-per-track=0 (hd0,0)/ISOs/sce32-mate-p2v.iso (0xff) 
map --hook 
root (0xff) 
chainloader (0xff)  

title Reboot
  reboot

title Shutdown 
  halt

32, 64, ISO's, all kinds of stuff. each in their own directory. ISO's on fat32 partition ..

[peterw]

Hi B. K. Johnson

As far as I know you do not need more than 1 partition. This is what I said, "Partition2 is only needed if I want to transfer some files to a running Windows machine and it can read Fat32". I was only suggesting it for a specific use as I stated. As you rightly note Puppy can use any file system (including FAT32) so if you want to use that then that is fine and it gives you the ability of transferring files to a running Windows machine.

I envisaged that perhaps someone might want to use other file systems such as F2FS for their Puppies and hence my advice.

[bigpup]

When did this necessity to have 2 partition materialize?

UEFI bios computers.
They want to see a boot partition that is a Windows format and fat 32 is the one that will work on all.
Why?

what the UEFI spec does mandate, is that, at the very least, an UEFI system should be able to boot from FAT32.

So, if you do not want the entire drive to have one fat32 partition.
You make the first one fat32.
Flag it boot.
Put the boot loader on it.

Make all the other partitions you want and any format.
Put Puppy on any of them including the first one.

Is this in stone?
No.

It depends on the computer manufacturer and how they setup the UEFI bios.
But they all have to support booting from a fat 32 format.

If you disable secure boot and/or select legacy boot in the UEFI bios, it may or may not apply needing fat32.

[mikeslr]

And I've run into (at least) one computer running Windows 7 (no UEFI) which happily reads the 1st USB-Key partition when that partition is formatted Fat32. But if the 1st partition is Linux Ext(2 - 4) with the 2nd or subsequent partition(s) being Fat32 Windows asks if I want to format the USB-key, never reaching the 2nd or subsequent partitions.

mikesLr

[B.K. Johnson]

@bigpup
I am going to try to summarize your post to see if I understand it correctly. And as I do, I ask some questions which I hope you and others can shed some light on.

Summary
1. All UEFI bios computers must have a FAT32 partition to boot from.
2. If you don't want to place all files in that FAT32 partition, you may create additional partitions.
3. The additional partitions may be of any file system

Conclusion
So UEFI does not really need a second partition; it tolerates it as long as there is a bootable FAT32. It does not mandate one.

Questions
1. So who decides on a 2nd or more partitions and why? User? Developer? Either?

2. If it is the user, what are the reason(s) that would make him/her choose to have a second partition?
2.a I have seen post claiming that they need the 2nd partition to enable file transfers between Windows an Linux. Unless it is Win-7+, I have always been able to transfer between the 2 operating systems.
2.b For storage of a particular file type
2.c For launching a particular system
2.c To launch each puppy from a different partition
2.d To accommodate these partitions, the user invariably chooses grb4DOS as the boot-loader

3. What are the reason(s) that would make a developer choose to have a second partition?
3.a Does the the developer really makes such a choice? He/she creates an ISO for burning to a CD/DVD. Hard drive and flash drive partitions are not applicable for optical media. I see in tahr-6.0.6 that 666philb provides both isolinux.cfg and grub.cfg. So it comes down to which bootloader (Grub4DOS or SYSLINUX) and the implementation thereof that decides.
3.b isobooter and if I'm not mistaken, YaPI deliberately create second partitions. Why?


Any other comments that will enhance my understanding are welcomed.
TIA.

[version2013]

My 64bit laptop has:
secure boot disabled
legacy bios enabled

My multiple puppy frugal installs are on a notebook hard drive in an external enclosure connected via USB 3.
My hard drive has one ext3 partition with MSDOS partition table.
The frugal installs are in separate directories.
I use syslinux as my boot loader.

http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Download
http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=EXTLINUX
http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Mbr

in the root of the mounted usb hard drive (happens to be /sdg):

Code: Select all

/initrd/mnt/dev_save/Library/syslinux/syslinux-6.03/bios/extlinux/extlinux --install .

master boot record in the partition table

Code: Select all

dd bs=440 count=1 conv=notrunc if=/initrd/mnt/dev_save/Library/syslinux/syslinux-6.03/bios/mbr/mbr.bin of=/dev/sdg

[bigpup]

1. All UEFI bios computers must have a FAT32 partition to boot from.

Yes.
That has become the standard for UEFI bios.

2. If it is the user, what are the reason(s) that would make him/her choose to have a second partition?
2.a I have seen post claiming that they need the 2nd partition to enable file transfers between Windows an Linux. Unless it is Win-7+, I have always been able to transfer between the 2 operating systems.
2.b For storage of a particular file type
2.c For launching a particular system
2.c To launch each puppy from a different partition
2.d To accommodate these partitions, the user invariably chooses grb4DOS as the boot-loader

Sure, all could be the reason to have other partitions.

Do you have to have more than one partition with Puppy?
No.
Puppy works fine on any format.
Other formats have better features than fat32, so why not make other partitions, using those formats, and use them for the main Puppy install.
One big reason to put Puppy on a Linux format is to get option to make save folder.

I see in tahr-6.0.6 that 666philb provides both isolinux.cfg and grub.cfg.

There is those two and also some other new files, now in Puppies, that have UEFI in the version name.
Those are added files that are needed to boot on UEFI computers.
The UEFI Puppies actually have what is needed to boot on UEFI bios and what is needed to boot on the old bios.

What are the reason(s) that would make a developer choose to have a second partition?

Puppy version developers do not decide on partitions.
They just develop the Puppy iso package.
Partitioning is the users choice.

YaPI deliberately create second partitions.

Yapi does not create any partitions.
It works with what it finds already there.
The install location is the choice of the user of Yapi.
Now, when it gets to installing Grub4dos bootloader.
The auto setting is install to the first partition, if there is more than one partition on the drive.

[B.K. Johnson]

peterw wrote:

As far as I know you do not need more than 1 partition.

bigpup agrees. I suggested that the 2nd partition is a user option which you indirectly agree, (reason: facilitate Puppy<=>Windows file transfer). But whereas you set the boot flag on the 2fs, I got the impression from bigpup, perhaps wrongfully, that a bootable FAT32 was needed. It would seem from your experience that a FAT32 is necessary but not necessarity bootable for UEFI. Or is it the first partition that must be bootable?

@bigpup
I had expected a comment on my Summary and Conclusion by now.

In light of peterw's experience with 2 partitions (FAT32 and 2fs), but booting from the 2fs, would you like to comment, please?

Then to add to the confusion, version2013 wrote:

My hard drive has one ext3 partition with MSDOS partition table.

my underlining for emphasis.

I am thoroughly confused.

[bigpup]

UEFI bios has a normal mode of operation and a non-normal mode of operation.
You can select it to use a non-normal way to operate.
This affects how it works.

It depends on the manufacturer of the computer and how they decided the UEFI bios will work.
They have some options for how they want the UEFI bios to work on their hardware.
They could require a fat32 formatted boot partition as the only one they will allow to boot from, even with secure boot disabled and or legacy mode enabled.
But they all have to support booting from a fat 32 format.
It seems the standard for normal UEFI booting is from a fat32 formatted boot partition.

legacy mode is a state in which a computer system, component, or software application behaves in a way different from its standard operation in order to support older software, data, or expected behavior.

As I stated in a earlier post:

It depends on the computer manufacturer and how they setup the UEFI bios.
But they all have to support booting from a fat 32 format.
If you disable secure boot and/or enable legacy boot in the UEFI bios, it may or may not apply needing fat32.

Basically, if you do this, the UEFI bios is not working as a normal UEFI bios. It is working in legacy mode and mostly like the old bios way.
So, old ways of doing things may work OK.

My 64bit laptop has:
secure boot disabled
legacy bios enabled

So, he is not in normal UEFI bios mode of operation.
That is why his setup works.

The idea behind the Puppy versions, that have UEFI in their name, is to have everything needed to be able to boot on a UEFI bios computer, without having to turn off secure boot and or select legacy boot in the UEFI bios.
That also requires a fat32 boot partition and the boot files on it as the first partition seen by the UEFI bios.
Oh, and it may also have to be using a GUID Partition Table (GPT).

I have never really tried to do it with UEFI bios setup normally, because I boot from USB drives or CD/DVD.
Secure boot has to be turned off, on my computer, to even get an option to boot from a USB drive or CD/DVD.

What do I do.
I go into the UEFI bios and turn off secure boot and or enable legacy boot.
I boot Puppy the way I have always done it.
Any way I want to.

[B.K. Johnson]

@bigpup
Sorry for the chastisement ; I missed your reply.

I had expected a comment on my Summary and Conclusion by now. Surprised

Thanks
You threw a "spanner in the works" with the addition of secure boot. Trying to understand this is giving me a headache ... I'll drop it , at least for a while. What I can and will use is the procedure you personally use.

What do I do.
I go into the UEFI bios and turn off secure boot and or enable legacy boot.
I boot Puppy the way I have always done it.
Any way I want to.

I'll have to visit my BIOS settings, which I haven't done for soooo long - no need.