Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Tue 12 Dec 2017, 04:43
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy as Primary Operating System
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 4 of 4 [58 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4

Do you think Puppy is a good choice to save this old machine?
YES
100%
 100%  [ 24 ]
NO
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 24

Author Message
rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2176

PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2016, 14:05    Post subject:  

Puppy can use the save file/folder space when adding a PET such that the savefolder content changes even if no save was requested during a session. It also needs zdrv sfs to fully operate so that can't be in the 'savefolder' as otherwise that isn't available until after the savefolder has been found/read. As such I don't believe the setup can be used by puppy as things currently stand.

If you load puppy pfix=ram then the entire main sfs is read into memory ... including programs that you might not use during a session. Slower to boot, quicker to run thereafter than not using pfix=ram (and the described choice doesn't use the equivalent of pfix=ram i.e. stuff is read in as and when required, so quicker to boot, slower to load each program the first time, similar speed to load programs 2nd/subsequent times assuming it has remained memory bound (cached)).

In the standard puppy setup the main sfs is overlaid by any additional sfs's which is overlaid by the savefolder. In the described approach the main sfs is empty (and at the bottom layer, which is overlaid by any other sfs's loaded at bootup, which is overlaid by the save (partition) layer. Its more like UnderDog as Barry outlined here (around a quarter of the way down that document) or as outlined here

Compression and smaller filesize (IO) can be faster than reading full non compressed IO. I have used fast lzo or lz4 compressors/decompressors solely for that reason. If for example you mksquashfs the main / partition (excepting the /live folder) and drop that in as /live/filesystem.squashfs and then delete all of the / content (other than /live and menu.lst and grldr and persistence.conf...etc) i.e. shift things from the save partition to the main filesystem squashfs, then that will tend to boot/run quicker, especially on a multi-core system. Typically compression halves the amount of IO (filesize) at the expense of having to decompress that data, but where with four cores (say) decompressing that data is faster than IO speed. lz4 decompresses at around 400MB/core so 1.6GB/sec on a 4 core, which depending upon actual hardware can be faster than disk IO speed, maybe even approaching/exceeding ram speed.

I have run things that way, but it entails adding a 'remaster' script in order to update the main filesystem/empty the save space periodically. The way I had it set up was to use two copies of the main filesystem that it toggled between, so you can remaster a live running system. Its quite a nice way to run things, as remastering can be relatively quick, aufs mount the changes folder and main filesystem and create a new main filesystem and point the next reboot to use that newly remastered filesystem squashfs. That doesn't save on disk space as you're keeping two files (filesystem squashfs copies) available, but does noticeably speed up boot/first-time-run program load times.

I have inserted filesystems into initrd's in the past - handy for the likes of PXE based booting. That requires however that the initrd fully fits into memory, which for a larger system such as Debian often wont be the case. Its similar to trying to boot with pfix=ram in puppy but where the sfs is too large to fit into available free ram.

If you only want updates to firefox and libre office then one way would be to not apply any general updates and only ever update firefox/libre by periodically running

apt-get update (which updates the local copy of the repository)
apt-get install --reinstall firefox-esr
apt-get install --reinstall libreoffice

again however sooner or later that might break as other Debian stable stuff moves on. Only if you update the full stable system does it become a permanently stable system that evolves over time (at least until the current Debian stable at the time is beyond your hardware, but more often the hardware fails before then anyway).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1362
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Fri 07 Oct 2016, 15:04    Post subject:  

Regarding (automatic) saving of pets debs or Packetmanager installs to save/file/folder in Puppy during session .
rufwoof wrote :
Quote:
Puppy can use the save file/folder space when adding a PET such that the savefolder content changes even if no save was requested during a session. As such I don't believe the setup can be used by puppy as things currently stand.



Yes quite annoying situation .......but ....
I myself found something which helped me to avoid unwanted savings to save file/folder during a session while (experimenting ) with pets or debs or using installs from Packet manager .
When installing :
Petget-20120418
http://shino.pos.to/linux/puppy/
Also have look here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73829
Installing petget-20120418 will prevent any savings from any installs to save file/folder during session (Pup Event-Ḿanger Save-Intervals=0 )
If you like to save during session ...use save2flash ....
There is one disadvantage in in it .......Puppy-Package Manager will switch to an older Version .
There is something in this code which keeps session completely in ram ...unless saved with save2flash
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
hollipl

Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct 2016, 16:32    Post subject:  

okay so after reading some of your suggestions, and after rooting around a bit in the full installation of puppy to my hdd, I've come up with this.

It seems to be a waste to install puppy to its own partition on the hdd, especially since it excells so much at being a frugal USB live distro, and i do want to dual boot with a slower running but more regular desktop distro like Lubnuntu or Bunsenlabs.

So I can do a fake dual boot using PLOP, a cdr based boot manager that allows my old computer to boot to the CD, then select USB and boot drives that my old bios previously could not boot from usb, but the same cd also puts my hdd partitions on the menu to boot. So I could just do a frugal install of puppy to a decent USB and still have it on the PLOP boot menu next to my HDD partitions. Can't you edit Grub to include a distro thats on USB, but left permanently plugged in?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2924
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct 2016, 17:37    Post subject:  

PloP can be installed on any really bootable device, including your main hard disk.
_________________
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1362
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct 2016, 08:31    Post subject:  

Hi hollipi !

Quote:
It seems to be a waste to install puppy to its own partition on the hdd, especially since it excells so much at being a frugal USB live distro,


Yes .......better go frugal ( maybe on Usb Flash Stick ) .......much more advantages over HDD install .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
starlyte


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: near Carcassonne, S. France

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct 2016, 13:49    Post subject:  Even on Pentium 1
Subject description: Puppy as Primary OS
 

Until a year and a half ago, I had a P1, and a couple of very slightly newer Pentium, 2 or 3's, and Puppy was the best, almost only OS that ran well on them.
Obviously not from RAM, but using exterior methods, such as installing the basic OS on the HDD from a newer PC, with USB.1 for a flash drive.
Unfortunately I no longer have those old machines, as my house caught fire one windy night, but if not they'd still be going, doing something useful.
I started using Puppy in the days of the V.1, and although I've grown with the different puppy flavors and advances in hardware, I haven't found another distribution that's as versatile.
In fact, I'm now not only a Linuxian but also a Puppian, loving and faithful.
I'm still trying to find the time to make my own Pupplet, but I'm busy (on the
new house! Laughing ), and there's so much variety, I always find a Puppy to suite my needs.
I'm on Quirky64, but I've seen that there's Wary, or one of the distros by Barry Kauler, made speciialy for older machines. Judging by the Xenial version of Quirky, I'd advise that Puppy on your PC.
Just looked, it's Wary-7.0, CS. If you want a look, do a search on here or "barryk.org".
Also saw that there's even one now for RasPi, a Quirky, with VLC Laughing
And he's got quite a bit about Pplog, with the packages Pet style, to install on your Pup.
But which ever Puppy you chose, have fun Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anotherpuppyfan

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov 2016, 01:29    Post subject:  

I keep and use Puppy 5.2.8 (as a live booter) for specs-weak machinery because it isn't hardware demanding and Firefox updates.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Illutorium

Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:53    Post subject:  

Not only for Save at Old Machines from a i386 architecture' - It can be boost at Modern Machines with a 4GB+ RAM' (Example from My build at Trusty Tahr.)

Addition advantage which can't be look at Lubuntu it's a: RAMdisk on the start and Of Modules at .SFS - That's for two advantages I will be keeping as Main OS'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1288
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:59    Post subject:  

I'm using Slacko5.7 nonPAE here... it runs as root and "just works" (how boring) Very Happy
Your XP-era HP might have the i915 video, if so, there are small pups that even have an "Old-MS-Office" compatible "FreeOffice". If you don't need Java or Flash, these pups are quite small and secure.

Regards
8Geee

_________________
Linux user #498913

Good God!, by the stars in the sky we are lost!
And into the breach we got tossed!
And the world is comin' on fast! --Florence Welch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov 2016, 11:17    Post subject:  

Illutorium wrote:
Not only for Save at Old Machines from a i386 architecture' - It can be boost at Modern Machines with a 4GB+ RAM' (Example from My build at Trusty Tahr.)

Addition advantage which can't be look at Lubuntu it's a: RAMdisk on the start and Of Modules at .SFS - That's for two advantages I will be keeping as Main OS'
Yes my machine has 6Gb of RAM.
I assembled this PC myself while not knowing much about it.
Fatdog runs very nicely in ram, expanded.
And now it can accept boot parameters to load any sfs in ram too while booting.

One month after building this machine in Jan 14, I started using Fatdog, and I am really happy with it.

I test out other puppies too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Illutorium

Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed 16 Nov 2016, 12:28    Post subject:  

drunkjedi wrote:
Illutorium wrote:
Not only for Save at Old Machines from a i386 architecture' - It can be boost at Modern Machines with a 4GB+ RAM' (Example from My build at Trusty Tahr.)

Addition advantage which can't be look at Lubuntu it's a: RAMdisk on the start and Of Modules at .SFS - That's for two advantages I will be keeping as Main OS'
Yes my machine has 6Gb of RAM.
I assembled this PC myself while not knowing much about it.
Fatdog runs very nicely in ram, expanded.
And now it can accept boot parameters to load any sfs in ram too while booting.

One month after building this machine in Jan 14, I started using Fatdog, and I am really happy with it.

I test out other puppies too.


When I will be runing at PAE version (because 64bit it's a useless if be doesn't had a 64GB RAM,"Wine" it's doesn't be important for me anyway'.) then will be works fine and can be run a bit faster than a 64bit if be does has a 4GB+ RAM only. (I readed at April 2014' at some "Polish IT's presses" then "Kernel with PAE" are can be reading Max. to 64GB - and that's is reason so I will be drop' at 64bit version')
Then in a Newest Kernel can be add at a SSD scripts [pfix=trim] and then are be works anyway'
Now I can be feel then Loading at Some Programs can be react at less ms' (due it's a SSD' when I will be have at a My Own HTPC Laptop.)
For Interesing peoples at Segment's Puppies it's here from My Post -> http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=931320#931320
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
as77

Joined: 25 Feb 2014
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 06:24    Post subject: retired laptops  

Pc's do live long compared to micro$oft's wintööts. Since 2014 ex-XP laptops could be had for 0...25 euros. Including real gems. For instance ones with a white keyboard (which all laptops should have!).

To make it real easy I downloaded for me and my friends an exe-installer for Slacko 5.7. Successfully used even by a rather computer illiterate lady. Now slowly replacing with Tahrpups (with ubuntu repos).

https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_Windows_Installer I found later is a collection of over seventy exe-installers !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
redandwhitestripes

Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Tue 26 Sep 2017, 04:25    Post subject:  

Have a Compaq Presario 2500. Old dinosaur has broken keys, stuck keys, failed hard drives, the lot. Puppy still runs on it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 4 of 4 [58 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0670s ][ Queries: 17 (0.0099s) ][ GZIP on ]