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The time now is Thu 23 Nov 2017, 20:38
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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
can some one define: what is Puppy?
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 16:50    Post subject:  

oui wrote:
on a simple PC only with hard disk, you are totaly dependant from an idiotic only one directory, "live".

It isn't true. Maybe you are just confused by someone who thinks porteus-boot is the best in the linux world. But even with porteus-boot you can avoid live folder name:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=965141&sid=1e6838debdeb1e741063be75cf93ffef#965141
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=965275&sid=1e6838debdeb1e741063be75cf93ffef#965275
Live-boot needs only live-media-path= to change live folder name to different one:
https://github.com/DebianDog/Jessie/wiki/Live-boot-2
oui wrote:
you can install 100 or more Puppy without some problem, some collision in the same partition Idea Rolling Eyes

but only one poor dog at the same time!

Wrong. You can do the same with DebianDog.


oui wrote:
and you can't start like Puppy with only each one

- kernel
- initrd
- and pup'pipapo.sfs

Wrong again. DebianDog needs the same to boot with live-boot:

01-filesystem.squashfs
vmlinuz1
initrd1.img

oui wrote:
and each restart, the dogs don't find but require some *.sgn file it does not find else it is present... you can't go to your breakfirst and let it do what needing: It does not continue to work and start the system! It waits for that *.sgn being present but not found!

I agree here but this .sgn file is needed only for porteus-boot. I don't know why it is still included in DebianDog forks but I've posted the fix how to remove this .sgn file for porteus-boot a long time ago:
Quote:
Change the default .sgn fiile to initrd1.xz
The boot option sgnfile= still works to add any .sgn file name you like. But now the system boots without .sgn file in "live" folder (one file less in the iso).

https://github.com/MintPup/DebianDog-Wheezy/commit/89f51c649b6803c36a69ed469ea54da0a0710758#diff-2d8e5fe9561984153f122dd8fa9ec602
DebianDog is community project now and needs only someone to apply the fix for new forked versions. I did it a long time ago for my own needs and the information is available for anyone interested from DebianDog development. BTW I would also remove the 4 empty folders (base, optional, modules, rootcopy). You can create them anytime if you need some of them.

Toni

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2020
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 17:13    Post subject: Correcting Qui's misunderstanding  

Sorry Qui. But all it takes to run multiple 'dogs' from the same partition is to place each live (if debian based) or casper (if Ubuntu based) folder within a uniquely named folder. The live/casper folder of a 'dog' contains the necessary *.sgn file.

My menu list in part reads:

title XenialDog 64 porteus-boot save on EXIT in /casper/changes folder
uuid c526ec9f-5915-4f31-932f-84c143a3a3cf
kernel /xendog64/casper/vmlinuz noauto from=/xendog64/ changes=EXIT:/xendog64/casper/
initrd /xendog64/casper/initrd1.xz

title Jessie64 porteus-boot save on EXIT in /live/changes folder
uuid c526ec9f-5915-4f31-932f-84c143a3a3cf
kernel /jessie64/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/jessie64/ changes=EXIT:/jessie64/live/
initrd /jessie64/live/initrd1.xz

So I can select which 'dog' I want to boot into and go to breakfast. Of course, if I didn't place each 'dog' in its own folder and identify that in my menu.lst I couldn't.

But then, if I tried to install multiple Puppies to the same partition without providing each with its own folder the chances are my breakfast would also be cut short.

mikesLr
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3451
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 17:38    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
In my opinion what makes Puppy Puppy are three things.
Run as Root
Run in Ram
Use of aufs layering.

In the beginning I remastered my Puplets.
Then I used Unleashed, then Woof.
I have not used WoofCE, as anymore I just build from the kernel up, sort of a "manual remaster" thing.
Because of aufs, Puppy only needs a kernel, and an initrd.
The rest is one .sfs unless one uses a a zdrive etc for drivers or modules.
I feel that Debiandog meets the standards to be called a Puppy. But it is not.
I was never a fan of Woof, it caused Puppy to be taken as a derivative other distros. But the economy of binary comparability is undeniable.
I currently run Tahrpup64, "slightly" modified. Wink

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 04:25    Post subject: lones, no! Imagination, yes you can  

you tell OUI that Puppy is Puppy because of how it is build, Puppyluver told us that puppy now fully depend on Ubuntu, Debian or Slackware.
Puppy was doing its own stuff, with its own apps. Is it unable to do it now ? Obliged to import,free of charge, all what is needed. obliged to ask users to trim the fat, or to compile.
But then why Puppy devs are soo busy, if everything is imported Question
Vocals.jpg
 Description   Clones, no! Imagination, yes you can
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Last edited by Pelo on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 08:12; edited 1 time in total
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 247
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 05:50    Post subject:  

Puppy to me is
- run as root
- layered system; that means: frugal install, nicely "boxed" and always knowing in what "box" a file is: mainpup.sfs, pupsave.fs, other sfs, initrd, inside or outside the system ...

I would say the Dogs are Puppies too. I really don't know why not. They certainly look like Puppies.
It doesn't really matter that they turn Debian into Puppy, instead of putting Debian into Puppy.
Puppies can be made in many different ways: handcrafted (the first ones?), with woof or woofCE, by remastering ...

The combination of "run as root" and "boxed" is why I consider Puppy to be safe: it gives the user total control.
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1305

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 07:15    Post subject:  

Pelo wrote:
you tell OUI that Puppy is Puppy because of how it is build, Puppyluver told us that puppy now fully depend on Ubuntu, Debian or Slackware.
Puppy was doing its own stuff, with its own apps. Is it unable to do it now ? Obliged to import,free of charge, all what is needed. obliged to ask users to trim the fat, or to compile.
But then why Puppy devs are soo busy, if everything is imported Question



Pelo,

A simple question:

Why can't you---just once----take all that energy that comes forth from your vocal chords (or typing fingers) and CREATE a pup version that meets exactly your vision of what it should be?

Building via woof-CE is easy, and wiak has made it very, very easy.

You attack so many of us that have tried to make pups and/or derivative pups, yelling that you are a "passenger" and the accommodations in a certain pup are t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e or not-worth-your-time-and-effort. Well, you know what? You are NOT a passenger that is a very kind.

In fact, are you a passenger that moves past "kindness" and into the realm of 'une petite esprit personne' (English speakers: it just generally means a 'small minded person')?? Prove us wrong, Senor Pelo (if you have created your own pup, please do point to it so it can be tested)
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 247
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 09:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
if you have created your own pup, please do point to it so it can be tested

That is something I love about Puppy: it is easy to make your own Puppy!
Maybe it is not what makes it Puppy, but it is a wonderful thing.
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 13:00    Post subject: How Puppy can help people in their life, that was the base
Subject description: Now the forum is only learning how to build a new Puppy, Huge difference !
 

i have a dozen of Puppy home made. Most of them i just changed the kernel using a topic explaining how to do. I consider that putting a piece or another one in the puzzle is not a new puppy, it's a Puppy for me. About Dogs , they don't want to be Puppies. Why , i don't know. But they need a forum, and Puppy's one was existing. But if they don't try to kick away our puppys , exchanges can be profitable to everybody.
About devs, if some of them needed to create Facebook sites to meets users, i mean people wanting an OS to make they computer join there needs and their hobbies, it's because the forum frightened them by huge and quite only creating Puppies and installing. , like doctors, people don't speak all day long of diseases
Pregnancy is a step, Puppy needs support once born,
But i you can see, my goal is to give people applications to run, and to verify for which puppies they run. And i make me a tester for some projects that i find nice. Devs miss users. I am often the only one. So you must be kind with me Exclamation

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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3451
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 19:06    Post subject:  

Smile Hello,
Pelo, I did not imply that puppy was dependent on anything.
Rather, I implied that puppy is built from anything.
I use .debs, Slackware/Fedora/Suse...
Whatever works.
Puppy is a single file switch root setup.
What's in the file is the key.
What Lego's its built from is unimportant...

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 22:06    Post subject: in the spirit they are more requirements,  

in the spirit they are more requirements, About Support, among others. You cannot let down-loaders without assistance because version is public released !
Drivers must be provided by the Puppy-builder. Ok if somebody provides the forum his own home version to get some help, he is as an user, not an official dev. But they should inform in titles that their Woof-ce is personal, not for public release. , is for asking help, not to help
Puppyluvr, i fully agree on your rules shown on Facebook.. If the forum is more technical; it should not be only technical and for technics.
About Puppy only a boot system.. as Porteus.. even porteus is not only booting sytem.
Our Linux devs are only delivery men, but us, passengers, we want something in the basket. To play with it. Not play 'installers'. Install is not a pleasure at all.
Why Pemasu, Dejan, smokey01 ... and many others try to provide pets for Puppy users, by trimming the fat, or creating home made apps. That is good, asking people to do it is bad., because only a few dozen instead of thousands will still use Puppy.
But i want to close by underlining that way of doing is typically US, north American. Facebook or foreign Puppy forum are a lot more friendly to help everybody, whatever the Puppy they use. People get replies, that is polite, respectuous. Even if answer is 'we cannot help you in this matter'
Confused Unanswered posts : Search found 12086 matches
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
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Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Tue 26 Sep 2017, 04:22    Post subject: Please tag you puppies with your name
Subject description: We are unable to know the builder of Stretch ones, excepted Musher0 ones
 

Dogs and Puppy Linux are not the same. Dogs is for builders.
User can be root , with Puppy Linux, he can be only user, With Dogs he will have to build himself his OS before he can use it. Builders will like that, nos usagers, usarios, käyttäjät first will have to take english and Linux lessons.
Crying or Very sad if automobile reviews were only about how to start your car...
Sure it's not easy to start a Ferrari , but the most important is what a Ferrari will do, once Started..
Billions of babies, Billions of Puppies, built in Puppy prodution lines, push the button, and one will fall in your box. Free of charge, not worth a penny.
Important is not how many they are, but that each one does something others won't do.

"I guess it's that I see lots of activity on the forum of people getting into woof-ce and remaking existing pups which is great, but not too much activity pushing things forward into new arenas..."

Try to help disabled people by voice , not to move the mouse, that is a great deal. (I got nervous with Windows vocal system, few years ago)

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Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 370
Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep 2017, 04:43    Post subject: Re: in the spirit they are more requirements,  

Pelo wrote:
People get replies, that is polite, respectuous. Even if answer is 'we cannot help you in this matter'
Confused Unanswered posts : Search found 12086 matches



What do you know about respectful and polite - hah your a funny man.

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