The "quiet" option in Lupu

[drtheglob]

I'm using the Lupu ISO. I accidentally clicked "quiet" when I was deleting files. Now I cannot find the files and I wasn't meaning to delete ALL of them in the folder. They are not in the trash.

How can I re-acess?

Picture included. Picture is not a screenshot I took but shows the option in question in the lower box.

[bigpup]

From Rox manual.

All windows have the Quiet option. When this is on the filer will only confirm some operations (such as deleting a non-writeable file). Otherwise, all operations are confirmed.

Quite selected says: "do not ask me if I really want to do this".
Just do whatever I choose, with no questions asked.

If you deleted it is deleted.
No recovery I know about.

In Rox selecting trash in the right click menu will send stuff to the trash.
Access trash from the trash icon on the desktop.
You can recover stuff from the trash.

[Mike Walsh]

Hi, drtheglob.

Mmm. Essentially, when deleting stuff in Puppy, you have to delete items one by one. This ensures that you have to 'click-to-confirm' for each and every action, so that you're fully aware of what it is you're requesting the system to do.

The 'Quiet' option allows the system to continue repeating whatever action you've requested it to carry out, without needing you to confirm each and every time. Thus, if you ask it to 'quietly' delete a whole bunch of files, you need to make absolutely certain that you don't want those files any more before commencing..!

As far as I'm aware, Puppy's Trash bin doesn't work like many others. When you delete stuff, they don't get sent to the trash. They get permanently deleted, I think. However, I'm no expert on this particular item, so I'm more than willing to be corrected on this one...


Mike.

[Mike Walsh]

In Rox selecting trash in the right click menu will send stuff to the trash.
Access trash from the trash icon on the desktop.
You can recover stuff from the trash.

Thanks for the info, bigpup. At least I now know how the trash system actually works....

Cheers!


Mike.

[bigpup]

Delete is Rox file manager is just that, DELETE
No going back it is deleted.

Trash is a Puppy Rox app
You have to select in the right click menu to put stuff in trash or drag and drop to the trash icon on the desktop.
Trash works like you would think trash works.

This is the doc file for trash.
usr/local/apps/Trash/Help/help.html
(to see it right click on desktop trash icon, select help)

Well, there are some file recovery programs that may be able to recover deleted files, but Puppy does not have them, normally.
You would need to get the program and run it from a Puppy that is not using the storage device you deleted from.
You want to prevent any writing to that device, because a write operation could write over what you are trying to recover.
At the end of this trash help doc it talks about one that may work.

[MochiMoppel]

Delete is Rox file manager is just that, DELETE
No going back it is deleted.

Wait,wait,wait...that depends. Files that reside in your savefile are not deleted right away,. They are only flagged for deletion and can be "recovered" by removing the deletion flag - as long as Puppy hasn't saved the contents of /initrd/pup_rw to the savefile.

Trash works like you would think trash works.

Depends on your expectation. If you expect that by deleting files to trash you can revover some disc space then you would be wrong. Trash will not be compressed.

If you think that by deleting files to trash you would end up with plus minus zero disc space then you are again wrong. Trash creates a heavy overhead and adds 16K to every trashed file, even if it's only a 1byte file. You can fill up your savefile quickly with trash.

[Mike Walsh]

@MochiiMoppel:-

I'm curious here.

Wait,wait,wait...that depends. Files that reside in your savefile are not deleted right away,. They are only flagged for deletion and can be "recovered" by removing the deletion flag - as long as Puppy hasn't saved the contents of /initrd/pup_rw to the savefile.

I can see that would work with a standard Puppy 'frugal' install to USB, given that usually the OS 'saves' to the save-file once every 30 minutes under default settings.

How does the save process work with a frugal install to hard-drive? When I shut any of my Pups down (which are all installed this way), it always says something along the lines of "...mounted top layer, session already saved." I've always been curious as to how data recovery under such conditions would in fact be possible...


Mike.

[LazY Puppy]

You can fill up your savefile quickly with trash.

That's just another reason why I don't use save files at all.

My /root/.Trash is a symbolic link to /mnt/sde1/Dateien/Papierkorb (which would be in English: /mnt/sde1/Files/Trash - where sde1 is the boot partition, that could be also sdb1 at next boot on a different machine).

This is set up automatically at boot up by the Configuration Files of my T.O.P.L.E.S.S. Systems (no remaster, no save files necessary).

[MochiMoppel]

How does the save process work with a frugal install to hard-drive?

Then your savefile is mounted directly to the top layer and you have no /initrd/pup_rw to collect your save or delete requests. Saving files saves files immediately and when you delete files they are .... well, DELETED

[Mike Walsh]

How does the save process work with a frugal install to hard-drive?

Then your savefile is mounted directly to the top layer and you have no /initrd/pup_rw to collect your save or delete requests. Saving files saves files immediately and when you delete files they are .... well, DELETED

That's kinda what I suspected! Thank you for the clarification.

Just purely out of curiosity, is there a way to make a hard-drive frugal behave like a USB frugal? If I'm right, I believe it's something to do with configuring the Puppy Event Manager in the correct way.....but how do you go about it? Do we have any specific documentation on this particular exercise?


Mike.

[MochiMoppel]

is there a way to make a hard-drive frugal behave like a USB frugal?

Yes. IIRC it's sufficient to boot with boot parameter pmedia=usbflash, but it's a long time since I did that so don't take my word. In any case it's a simple procedure.

Edit: I checked the init file in initrd.gz and it appears that pmedia=usbflash or pmedia=ataflash will put your frugal HD installation (normally PUPMODE 12) into the "save occasionally/on demand" mode (PUPMODE 13).

[belham2]

Hi (hoping you see this, Mike W!)

Code: Select all

Mike Walsh wrote:	
How does the save process work with a frugal install to hard-drive?	
Then your savefile is mounted directly to the top layer and you have no /initrd/pup_rw to collect your save or delete requests. Saving files saves files immediately and when you delete files they are .... well, DELETED Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

Hi Mike & Mochi,

I've recently come across this, where I took a perfectly good, functioning 'frugal' install of a pup, and its Savefolder, and transferrred it over to an Internal Laptop Sata hard drive.

The Sata hardrive is governed by Grub4dos, so i just copied the menu.lst and only changed "pmedia=usbflash" to "pmedia=atahd" because I thought I was supposed to.

Every thing runs great, but when I shut down, I am getting that "....the pup is mounted directly top layer, session already saved"

I am still a bit confused....does that mean saving to the Savefolder is occurring whether using it during the session and/or at shutdown? Or does it mean nothing is being saved at any point unless I physically click the "Save" button on the desktop?


Thanks for any clarification. (I'm actually kind of hoping that 'nothing is getting saved' because then that would allow me to experiment with some ideas that are somewhat-related to running 'frugal' pups with pfix=ram yet the savefile/folder is still getting loaded at boot)[/code]

[Mike Walsh]

Hi, belham2.

You haven't really got the right guy for this, y'know! If there's one thing about Pup I've never really understood, it's the PupModes.....

Until fairly recently (within the last year, at any rate), I always used to burn my Puppy ISOs to CD, run the LiveCD, and let the Puppy Universal Installer take care of everything, depending on the instructions I gave it. Then I read a post by rockedge about the 'quick'n'dirty' install method, where you copy the files off the ISO, run Grub4DOS, and let it take care of the boot-loader, etc. It's how I handle all Puppy installs to this day.

As I understand it, Pup is somehow able to detect whether you're installing to hard-drive, flash drive, etc., without being told. Certainly, I never tell it what I'm installing to.....but the PupMode is always the right one.

The behaviour you're describing is correct for a 'frugal' install to hard drive, which is what 95% of mine are. As Mochi says, the save-file/folder is 'mounted' to the top layer, so saves/deletes are performed straight away, just like a conventional full install. You don't have the 'safety-net' of being asked if you wish to save or not.

One person who could fill you in on a lot more detail about this is mikeslr; as I understand matters, he prefers to run all his Pups in this manner.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I'll do a bit of research and get back to you. Bear with me...


Mike.

[sheldonisaac]

I've recently come across this, where I took a perfectly good, functioning 'frugal' install of a pup, and its Savefolder, and transferrred it over to an Internal Laptop Sata hard drive.

The Sata hardrive is governed by Grub4dos, so i just copied the menu.lst and only changed "pmedia=usbflash" to "pmedia=atahd"

Got to go, so in brief:

Code: Select all

pmedia=ataflash

should work.

[backi]

For me in same situation (Puppy frugal on a Hardrive .....pup-event set not to save) pmedia=ataflash does somehow not work this way for me ......i set it to pmedia=ideflash .....now it does .

[MochiMoppel]

I am still a bit confused....does that mean saving to the Savefolder is occurring whether using it during the session

Yes.

and/or at shutdown?

No. Nothing needs to be saved at shutdown as everything is saved immediately during the session - hence the "session already saved" message

Or does it mean nothing is being saved at any point unless I physically click the "Save" button on the desktop?

Now I'm confused. You see a "Save" button on your desktop? I think you shouldn't. Please open file /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE and find PUPMODE. What PUPMODE are you in?

I'm actually kind of hoping that 'nothing is getting saved' because then that would allow me to experiment with some ideas that are somewhat-related to running 'frugal' pups with pfix=ram yet the savefile/folder is still getting loaded at boot

If you really want to experiment with impunity you should tell Puppy some "alternative facts":
- Make Puppy believe that you are starting from a Flash memory device. This will put the "Save" button on the desktop and will let you save on demand (provided you also set the automatic save interval to zero).
- Still Puppy would automatically save your experiments at shutdown. In order to prevent that you can make a confession before shutdown and tell Puppy the truth: Tell it that you are using a HD and that you are in PUPMODE 12. Puppy will *think* that nothing needs to be saved at shutdown and will present a bogus "session already saved". This will also keep Puppy from asking you if you want to create a savefile (if you have started your session without loading one).

[mikeslr]

Hi Mike,

If you repeat my name three times I will appear. Or was that Beetlejuice played by another Mike?

All I know is what I read in the funny papers, and what jpeps, one of the pioneers, wrote on this thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 326#662326.

"For anyone who is having having trouble locating this information, I'll post it. I've never liked automatic saving, and for frugal installs gaining control involves tricking the system into believing you're running a flash drive (i.e, switch to pupmode 13)..."

Despite that Barry K had conscientiously and clearly explained in a post on his blog that the numeric value of a pupmode was the result of adding factors to which he had assigned a numeric value, trying to remember the formulation and values hurt my head. So, I just remembered 13 good, 12 bad.

When jpeps wrote, making the switch wasn't newbie friendly. About the same time as jpeps wrote shinobar devised a modification of the Save Configuration Code, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 081#457081, which AFAIK was incorporated into all subsequent Puppies other than those published by Barry K. Together, they made switching Pupmodes at most a 3 step process:

1. If necessary, install shinobars pupsaveconfig pet.
2. Change the boot argument from atahd to ataflash*
3. Reboot and Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager>Save Sessions Tab, change the default interval from 30 minutes to Zero (0); optionally check "Ask at Shutdown".
Well 4. Save the change.

* I was surprised by backi's post. I was unaware that the above wouldn't work on all computers. Backi, am I guessing correctly that your hard drive is ide (?= pata) rather than a sata drive?

If so --and this may seem like a dumb question, but in my experience dumb questions sometimes generate the most useful information-- is there anything which would be obvious to a newbie that his was an ide drive? And, if not, before his mother finds the porn he thought he hadn't Saved, how would he go about determining what manner of drive was inside his black box? If you choose to accept this assignment, would you post your response to the thread jpeps started with the title "Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs", url provided above.

mikesLr

[belham2]

Thanks, everyone, for answering!

That automatic saving (when on an internal drive and using "pmedia=atahd") I honestly never knew about. Am ashamed

I was thinking I had stumbled onto a magic potion where, when using the Savefile/Folder and the "pmedia=atahd", nothing was being saved despite having the Savefile loaded at boot! Magic!! So I then I would've have had a 'frugal' pup that would load a Savefile/Folder at boot, but I never would have to worry about punching any "save" options, ever-----it would be the Holy Grail, being able to run fully in RAM without ever going thru the hassle of remastering and how remastering requires ya to go through setup everytime because you have to have pfix=ram----which means the Savefile/Folder is ignored.

Oh well, live & learn. Thanks again, all