SRWare 'Iron' browser; 64-bit SFS & .pet packages

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quirkian2new
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#41 Post by quirkian2new »

Thanks Mike for your tremendous effort of bundle all those gtk3 and libnss libs into iron.sfs . This saves me lots lots of trouble running iron61 on systems without gtk3.

IRON64 browser is always one of my MUST browser.

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Mike Walsh
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#42 Post by Mike Walsh »

quirkian2new wrote:Thanks Mike for your tremendous effort of bundle all those gtk3 and libnss libs into iron.sfs . This saves me lots lots of trouble running iron61 on systems without gtk3.

IRON64 browser is always one of my MUST browser.
Hi, quirkian2new.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it; nice to know my efforts haven't been in vain.

That is of course the idea; it's the same concept that battleshooter (to whom the credit belongs) helped me with for Chrome itself, when it started demanding the very newest libnss. By doing it this way, it's all self-contained (rather like watchdog's PaleMoon with the built-in glibc upgrades).....no chance of the newer libs interfering with other apps/programs on your system which are happily working with older versions of the same.

Sounds like it's working as planned..!


Mike. :wink:

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Mike Walsh
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#43 Post by Mike Walsh »

***New Version: Iron 62.0.3250.0***

Hallo again, boys'n'girls.

The new release of Iron, 62.0.3250.0, is now available for download from the link in post #1. I've included the current version of PepperFlash, 27.0.0.187, which installs to /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins, as usual.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This release of Iron not only contains battleshooter's libnss/gtk3 modifications, but it's the first 64-bit release to be using the 'run-as-spot' configuration which will, I believe, come to be the standard method for running Chromium-based browsers in Puppy. Many, many thanks, once again, to belham2 for having figured this one out originally for Chrome.

NetFlix is still working, thanks to SRWare's advice to 'poach' the libwidevinecdm.so module from the current version of Chrome itself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm hoping, with this new launcher method - giving you operation as a 'normal' user (which Chromium now demands!), plus full sandboxing - and the inclusion of battleshooter's 'fix' for the libs'n'stuff - that these Chromium-based browsers will be 'safe' for a bit from much more in the way of major modifications. I've probably spoken too soon, but.....we shall see.

Enjoy.


Mike. :wink:

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festus
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#44 Post by festus »

Iron-62.0.3250.0-amd64-tahr.sfs, is working very well on xenial64-7086, is quick and responsive.

Thank you, Mike, for the great work on these browsers.

bliss,
festus

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Mike Walsh
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#45 Post by Mike Walsh »

festus wrote:Iron-62.0.3250.0-amd64-tahr.sfs, is working very well on xenial64-7086, is quick and responsive.

Thank you, Mike, for the great work on these browsers.

bliss,
festus
You're very welcome. Enjoy.


Mike. :wink:

quirkian2new
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#46 Post by quirkian2new »

hello Mike

Tried your iron61 on laptop with 2gb ram(Fatdog version 702) and found it freeze often. So i think it would probably due to too little Ram. Maybe 4gb ram is the minimum requirement ? I see somewhere mention the parameter of " --disk-cache-dir=/tmp", that is :

# chrome-wrpper --no-sandbox --disable-infobars --disk-cache-dir=/tmp

is this parameter of "--disk-cache-dir=/tmp" can solve the issue of insuffcient ram of 2gb or 4gb? On systems with 8gb ram, iron61 is running quite smooth.

thanks

quirkian2new
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#47 Post by quirkian2new »

hello Mike
Out of curiosity, i compared file size for v61 and v62. Both chrome and chrome-sandbox are over 100MB in v61 whereas chrome-sandbox is only 18kb in v62 ?
Any idea ?

By the way, iron61 seems to kill and quit itself whenever i try to upload a file ?


Edit: v62 run-as-spot seems to kill itself when i tried install ublock origin extension.
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mikeslr
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Running as Spot -- cache & other problems

#48 Post by mikeslr »

Hi quirkian2new
quirkian2new wrote:hello Mike

Tried your iron61 on laptop with 2gb ram(Fatdog version 702) and found it freeze often. So i think it would probably due to too little Ram. I see somewhere mention the parameter of " --disk-cache-dir=/tmp", that is :

# chrome-wrpper --no-sandbox --disable-infobars --disk-cache-dir=/tmp"
I'm not sure it is possible and even if possible that it would help.

Most Linux Distributions --those for whom Web-browsers are designed-- are created as Multi-User operating systems. Each user has his/her own Home Folder. But that folder can expand to the extent of the available space on the partition on which it is located. Such systems do not maintain a clear distinction between what is in Random Access Memory and what is on the storage media, frequently reading and writing what is in RAM to the User's Folder in Storage. The files websites cache on a computer being so operated would, if memory were exceeded, automatically write to the user's folder on Storage.

A frugally installed Puppy, on the other hand, was designed to run as Root, having access to any storage media attached to the system, but operating only in RAM with nothing being written to Storage unless a Save was executed either manually or, if Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager, Save Session was not set to Zero, periodically. When such Save is performed, everything then in RAM (except the contents of /tmp) is copied/written to Storage. Such contents still remain in RAM until cleared by a Shutdown/Reboot.

Spot was developed in --IMHO a misguided-- effort to emulate the security provided to one user on a Multi-user system from the activity of another user. It creates a sealed folder and limits applications so configured to only have access to it.

Under a Frugal Puppy's "Merge File System" any change occupies RAM, so a Website which has cached its files on your system has done so in RAM. As currently configured, Iron's cache folder is located at /spot/.cache, and the contents of /spot/.cache are in RAM. Reassigning Iron-running-as-spot's cache files to /tmp would not improve the system as changes to /tmp are also in RAM.

I don't think it's possible. The way the problem of cache filling up RAM is handled with a Web-browser NOT running as spot, is to move the cache folder onto storage (e.g. /mnt/home/browser-cache) and symlink it back. The system, including the Browser, follows the symlink and writes directly to Storage rather than occupying RAM. I tried to edit /spot/iron/chrome-wrapper to add such an argument to Line 54 "exec -a "$0" run-as-spot /root/spot/iron/chrome" and execute a Save to preserve that change. Save went into what appeared to be an infinite loop. Neither Menu>Exit>Restart-X nor Ctrl-Alt-Backspace functioned and I finally pulled the plug.

What you might try doing is immediately on bootup (so as not to Save any unwanted junk to your system) open Iron, Click the 3 vertical dots at the Top-Right of its Panel, Select More Tools, Click Extensions, Click Get More Extensions, search for History Eraser and install it. And then perform an immediate Save. Extensions so added will survive a reboot. I'm not sure History Eraser does anything more than merely clicking "Clear Browsing Data" also reached from "More Tools" but it works very well on Iron-Not-Running-as-Spot, and places a nice icon on Iron's Panel which may remind you from time to time to clear cache.

In case you weren't aware, you can import bookmarks, but only after you've first copied them to the /spot folder (and you may have to rename them as 'bookmarks.html' overwriting the current file of that name). However, once imported you won't be able to add or delete bookmarks and have those changes preserved without performing a Save. In my opinion, this renders Iron running as Spot rather inconvenient as one's principal web-browser. And frankly, I don't see any advantage of having one browser run as spot --to protect your system-- if you are almost always using another browser running as Root.

Perhaps I'm mistaken. But I have the impression that the idea of running a browser as Spot came into existence before the mechanism for running Puppies with Automatic Save Removed was developed. With Automatic Save Removed, whatever crap you've picked up on the internet and is currently only in RAM is deleted by a reboot/shut-down without first performing a Save.

The apparent advantage of a spot folder appears to exist without taking into consideration:
(1) Someone mentioned recently, but I didn't make a note of it, that Puppies don't access websites the way other operating systems do; but more importantly
(2) Malware of any type is an application and for an application to run it must be
(a) 'on the Path' and /mnt/home is not "on the Path"
(b) it must be recognized as an executable. Even if malware were downloaded piece-meal, some executable would have to assemble it.
(3) Malware is not written for Linux which in total has less than 10% of computer users, with Windows having approximately 80% of computer users; and Linux is not one distribution but hundreds each of which is to some extent incompatible with every other variation. "Why do I rob banks? Because that's where the money is." :lol:
(d) Using technology to protect those things which are valuable to you rather than common sense is on par with the Romans employing the German Tribes to protect the Roman Empire. With Equifax having given away personal identity information of over 143 Million people --the full count may never be known-- and that's just one example that we know about, doesn't the use of data encryption for those few sensitive files you may keep on your computer, and the steps discussed on this post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 321#965321 and especially babaguy's response, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 487#973487 "Use a PAY-AS-YOU-GO Visa or MasterCard" make more sense.

mikesLr

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Mike Walsh
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#49 Post by Mike Walsh »

@Mikeslr:-

Mike, all this boils down to one thing (and you know it as well as I do.) No matter how I set the browser up, 'you can't please all of the folks all of the time'. It will never be right for everybody.

Many folks are happy with the 'standard' Puppy behaviour. You belong to the school that prefers to control your saves manually. That's fine, 'cos those of us with the 'nous' to perform the necessary modifications for Pup to run in this way usually possess sufficient 'know-how' to re-direct the browser's cache to a different location.

And Linux being as configurable as it is, I'm sure every one of us runs our systems differently. Horses for courses, mate.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for 'run-as-spot' being the operating mode for Chromium-based browsers from now on, I didn't voluntarily choose to run Iron this way. Blame Google. From Chromium 62 onwards, the browser code-base simply will no longer permit 'root' operation UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER. Henceforth, 'root' operation is a total no-no, as far as Google are concerned. 61 was the final version where the wrapper script would work in anything approaching it's original configuration.

They've decided, in their wisdom, that we ALL need protecting from ourselves....whether we agree with that assessment or not.

Go figure. :roll:

--------------------------------------------------------------

The creation, and inclusion of Spot may perhaps (in your opinion) have been 'misguided'. But for our purposes - getting the Chromium-based browsers to keep working in Puppy - it does the job. It works. I tried manually creating a 'named' user directory, along with setting up paths, permissions, etc.....but Pup wouldn't have it. It only recognises three owners; 'root', 'spot'.....and 'fido'.

I'm just making use of existing 'tools'. Furthermore, I'm under no illusions as to my very meagre abilities; I owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to several other people on the Forum for making it possible for me to keep these 64-bit browser packages going. My scripting skills are abysmal.....so I've 'borrowed' from some of the really 'clever' people. Like Oscar and peebee. Battleshooter has helped me a lot with the latest gtk3/nss requirements. And, most recently, belham2 has taken the time, and put the effort in, to figure out the necessary modifications to the wrapper script for 'run-as-spot' operation.....

Even Iguleder and Phil B. have indirectly helped out.

Tahr64 has always been something of a 'test-bed' for me.....and originally it was Google moving Chrome to 64-bit operation which prompted its adoption. It's the only 64-bit Puppy I run; I much prefer the 32-bit Pups as 'daily drivers'.

Our software is so very often a communal effort. These Chromium-based browsers are a very good illustration of that fact.


Mike. :wink:

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Overcoming the Bookmarking inconvenience

#50 Post by mikeslr »

Hi Mike,

I hope you didn't read my post as a personal criticism. Despite your modesty, the work you've published has been greatly appreciated. That it may be derivative doesn't detract from that. Someone once said something like "I can see so far because I stand on the shoulders of giants".

As you run your Puppies pretty much the same way as I do, symlinking to external folders when possible, I figured you must have had a good reason for constructing Iron in a way that made that impossible. Seems there was: :)

Mike Walsh: "As for 'run-as-spot' being the operating mode for Chromium-based browsers from now on, I didn't voluntarily choose to run Iron this way. Blame Google. From Chromium 62 onwards, the browser code-base simply will no longer permit 'root' operation UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER. Henceforth, 'root' operation is a total no-no, as far as Google are concerned. 61 was the final version where the wrapper script would work in anything approaching it's original configuration." :cry: :x

Well, while Iron was my preferred, and chrome and its clones continue in some respects to be superior to firefox and its clones, I guess in the future I'll just use a 'Chrome clone' for those operations on which it remains superior. After all, I somehow managed to get by with only firefox and seamonkey for a couple of decades.

As for the three inconveniences I discovered, there are workarounds. with the cache problem, I mentioned installing History Eraser and trying to remember to use it. Download only into /spot/Downloads can be moved to anywhere: pretty much how I handle download anyway. Leaving only the problem of keeping bookmarks up to date --organizing, adding and removing.

As I run various Puppies and various browsers, when I find a website I really think is important to occasionally access --regardless of which Puppy and which browser I'm using-- rather than bookmark it, one thing I already do is copy its URL and a short description into a LibreOffice Writer file. Writer recognizes it as a url and Ctrl-Clicking the text is supposed to open the url in one's default browser. [I've never gotten that to work, but copy and paste does.]

But perhaps there's some application for recording urls which would be better for keeping them organized. I'll have to look around and will post if I find anything useful. Perhaps others have suggestions.

mikesLr

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Mike Walsh
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Re: Overcoming the Bookmarking inconvenience

#51 Post by Mike Walsh »

mikeslr wrote:Hi Mike,

I hope you didn't read my post as a personal criticism. Despite your modesty, the work you've published has been greatly appreciated. That it may be derivative doesn't detract from that. Someone once said something like "I can see so far because I stand on the shoulders of giants".
Hell, no; don't be daft, man. It'd take a lot more than that to seriously rattle my cage!
As for the three inconveniences I discovered, there are workarounds. with the cache problem, I mentioned installing History Eraser and trying to remember to use it. Download only into /spot/Downloads can be moved to anywhere. Leaving only the problem of keeping bookmarks up to date --adding and removing.
Y'know, I'm having problems understanding this perceived shortcoming with the bookmark syncing. You all know by now that I've run Chrome right from the beginning. I've always used the same Google a/c. No matter what Chrome/Chromium-based browser I've tried, over the years, if it'll start & run, and I can sign in......it'll sync. And there's all my bookmarks.

I've tried the same thing with Firefox, but the whole process just never seemed to work as well.

As for the cache problem, I approach it from two fronts; by limiting the size of the cache to start with, followed by clearing the cache/securely closing the browser when I'm done. This I do with Click & Clean, which is available for both Chrome/Chromium and FireFox.

FF; https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... lickclean/

Chrome Store; https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... nfo-dialog

For a bookmark manager, perhaps something here might be of interest?

https://beebom.com/best-bookmark-managers/


Mike. :wink:

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mikeslr
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#52 Post by mikeslr »

I Mike,

I never used sync. Figured google was already finding out more about me than I cared for. Have you tried adding or removing sync'd bookmarks using any 'chrome-clone' running as spot? Should work, but by now I've gotten use to the fact that there's a disconnect between 'should' and 'do'.

Thanks for the link, https://beebom.com/best-bookmark-managers/. If that or something else doesn't lead to a convenient way of handling bookmarks, perhaps I'll have to join the rest of humanity syncing their bookmarks. Thanks for mentioning it. I wouldn't otherwise have thought of it. Old habits die hard.

I don't know if Click & Clean will also do this, but with History Eraser it isn't necessary to close the browser (' though it provides that option, together with the option to immediately re-open). Rather, you can just run it any time with one or several webpages open which will remain undisturbed after it finishes its job. It has various options enabling you to choose what is to be cleaned and how far back in time it will go. That it cleans cache without otherwise interfering with whatever webpages are currently open seemed to commend itself to quirkian2new's need to deal with RAM overload.

mikesLr

p.s. Just initiated History Eraser and noticed that its GUI sports a link to test privacy. Clicking it opened a page to 'Click and Clean's' webpage. I guess the two addons are affiliated.

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Mike Walsh
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#53 Post by Mike Walsh »

***New Version: Iron 63.0.3300.0***

Hallo again, boys'n'girls.

The new release of Iron, 63.0.3300.0, is now available for download from the link in post #1. I've included the current version of PepperFlash, 28.0.0.137, which installs to /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins, as usual.

This has already been out for a couple of weeks, I'm sorry to say. I've rather taken my eye off the ball in recent months, and haven't really been keeping up with things as well as I ought... :oops:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This release of Iron once again contains battleshooter's libnss/gtk3 modifications, and also continues with the use of the 'run-as-spot' configuration. I still believe this will become the standard method for running Chromium-based browsers in Puppy. Many, many thanks, once again, to belham2 for having figured this one out originally for Chrome.

NetFlix is still working, thanks to SRWare's advice to 'poach' the libwidevinecdm.so module from the current version of Chrome itself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still hoping, with this new launcher method - giving you operation as a 'normal' user (which Chromium now demands!), plus full sandboxing - and the inclusion of battleshooter's 'fix' for the libs'n'stuff - that these Chromium-based browsers will be 'safe' for a bit from much more in the way of major modifications. We shall see, we shall see.

Y'all know where to find me. Have fun.


Mike. :wink:

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#54 Post by Mike Walsh »

***New Version: Iron 65.0.3400.0***

Morning, kiddiwinks..

The new release of Iron, 65.0.3400.0, is now available for download from the link in post #1. I've included the current version of PepperFlash, 29.0.0.113, which installs to /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins, as usual.

This was released around a week ago, but I've been busy recently, sooo.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This release of Iron once again contains battleshooter's libnss/gtk3 modifications, and also continues with the use of the 'run-as-spot' configuration. NetFlix is still working, thanks to SRWare's advice to 'poach' the libwidevinecdm.so module from the current version of Chrome itself.

I'm still hoping, with this new launcher method - giving you operation as a 'normal' user (which Chromium now demands!), plus full sandboxing - and the inclusion of battleshooter's 'fix' for the libs'n'stuff - that these Chromium-based browsers will be 'safe' for a bit from much more in the way of major modifications. We shall see, we shall see.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same as with Chrome itself, with the inclusion of the 'glib-schemas', Iron will now download without crashing. After loading the SFS, just enter into the terminal:-

Code: Select all

glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
This will only need doing once.

I'm also including the 'Spot2Root' utility I introduced with the last Chrome release. It's a slightly clunky, temporary 'workaround' that transfers items from /root/spot/Downloads to your normal Downloads directory, and changes ownership as it does so. It places a large green 'checkmark' in the 'system tray' area.

You download something with Iron. You click on the large green 'tick'.....and the downloaded file is now in your main Downloads directory, with the normal root:root permissions. It adds a single, extra 'click'; not too hard to live with!

I've attached it to the bottom of this post.

Enjoy.


Mike. :wink:
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Spot2Root-v3.7.pet
File transfer utility
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#55 Post by Mike Walsh »

***New Version: Iron 66.0.3450.0***

Morning, kiddiwinks..

The new release of Iron, 66.0.3450.0, is now available for download from the link in post #1. I've included the current version of PepperFlash, 29.0.0.171, which installs to /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins, as usual.

The new download location for this is my Google Drive a/c. MediaFire are being awkward about my uploads; I think it's their way of hinting they want me to move to a paid account.....although, to be fair, the problem seems mainly limited to large uploads like these browsers. With small uploads, I don't have the problem; it seems to be linked to frequent 'network timeouts'.

You can find Iron here:-

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

This new location has been echoed in the original post. :) Hover over the one you want, then click on the arrow, top-left corner.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This release of Iron once again contains battleshooter's libnss/gtk3 modifications, and also continues with the use of the 'run-as-spot' configuration. NetFlix is still working, thanks to SRWare's advice to 'poach' the libwidevinecdm.so module from the current version of Chrome itself. And thanks, as always, to belham2, for his run-as-spot start-up scripts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same as with Chrome itself, with the inclusion of the 'glib-schemas', Iron will now download without crashing. There is a small script included to run this, without needing to manually run the 'glib-compile' command in the terminal.

The 'Spot2Root' file transfer utility for your Downloads folder is now built-in to the SFS package.

You download something with Iron. You click on the large green 'tick' in the notification area.....and the downloaded file is now in your main Downloads directory, with the normal root:root permissions. It adds a single, extra 'click' to the process; not too hard to live with! (Of course, if you wish to leave the permissions as for a 'normal user', i.e. 'Spot', just use the downloaded item direct from the ~/spot/Downloads directory instead.)

Have fun. Any probs, as usual, you know where to find me.


Mike. :wink:

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#56 Post by festus »

Mike, I'm a thanking you for providing these sfs's for iron64.

I use them regularly and this new version "Iron 66.0.3450.0" is working very well. :)

bliss,
festus

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#57 Post by Mike Walsh »

@ festus:-

Pleased to hear it's working for you. Just one query, if I may?

When you download something, do you have it set to ask you where to save the file.....or does it save automatically to Downloads? And if set to 'ask where to save', when the dialogue comes up, are you getting text.....or just a mass of little 'boxes' where the text should be?


Mike. :wink:

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festus
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#58 Post by festus »

Mike Walsh wrote:@ festus:-

... Just one query, if I may?

When you download something, do you have it set to ask you where to save the file.....or does it save automatically to Downloads? And if set to 'ask where to save', when the dialogue comes up, are you getting text.....or just a mass of little 'boxes' where the text should be?


Mike. :wink:
Mike, I have it set to 'ask where to save', and when the dialogue comes up I am getting text, but it will NOT save to any place except /spot/Downloads, which I have symlinked to another hdd.

I did try to save, your bibisco.sfs, to my software dir on another hdd and it said "no sufficient space available...", so I move it to my desired resting place and all is good.

bliss,
festus

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#59 Post by Mike Walsh »

@festus:-
festus wrote:Mike, I have it set to 'ask where to save', and when the dialogue comes up I am getting text, but it will NOT save to any place except /spot/Downloads, which I have symlinked to another hdd.

I did try to save, your bibisco.sfs, to my software dir on another hdd and it said "no sufficient space available...", so I move it to my desired resting place and all is good.
Fair 'nuff. The text thing is obviously specific to my set-up then; I shall just have to carry on figuring out the solution for that one.

As for saving to /spot/Downloads, well; running as spot, that's the only place it will save to, initially. That's why I built the 'Spot2Root' file-transfer/permissions-changer thing into the package. But it's easy enough to modify the 'spot-to-root' script in /usr/local/bin. Open with Geany, then change line 9 from:-

Code: Select all

mv -v /usr/share/Spot2Root/* ~/Downloads/
...to where you want the item to end up. Just change the '~/Downloads' to your desired location. Then, whenever you want to send an item to that location, just click on the green checkmark in the notification area, and a wee YAD box comes up to tell you the transfer has taken place. Easy enough to do.


Mike. :wink:

michel804
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New Version: Iron 66.0.3450.0

#60 Post by michel804 »

@Mike Walsh
I downloaded this for slacko64 6.3.2 but it doesn't open when I click at the menu entry.
What am I missing?

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