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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Xenialpup CE 7.5 / 25 Nov 2017
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Replicators

Joined: 02 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 11:47    Post subject:  

I am wanting to make a full install, but when i do the pet file seem's to not be activated upon restart. The reason i want to use xenial is because of it's small size and the laptop i am installing it on only has a 8 gb internal hard drive on it.

You guy's keep mentioning how a full install is supposed to be like how it is in windows and doesn't need a pupsave, yet when i try to install the atheros pet file, it doesn't seem to save or even recognize that it was installed upon restart. I am not asking about the frugal install or the use of a pupsave. How can i have it save on a full install?
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1832
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 12:59    Post subject:  

why a full install?

frugal is the way to go imho

provide a link to the pet you have downloaded

Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2522
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 13:33    Post subject:  

@ Replicators,

Does your computer have more than 256 Mbs of RAM? A "Full Install" is IMHO a "hack" developed to provide users of computers with 256 Mbs of RAM or less with a way to boot up a Puppy and open applications slightly faster. Puppies were created to run as Frugal Installs --meaning only that an entire partition isn't required. There is nothing you could do on a Full Install which you can't do on a Frugal Install, and many things you can't do on a Full Install which you can do on a Frugal Install. Not the least of the things you can't do on a Full Install is reasonably easily recover from mistakes and problems. Most often on a Full Install your only remedy is to wipe the install from your computer and start from scratch.

If you have less than 256 Mbs of RAM, you shouldn't be trying Xenialpup at all. It's minimum RAM requirement is 768 with 1 Gb recommended.

If you can place your Frugal Puppy on a partition formatted as Linux --Ext3 is my recommendation-- you can have both the benefits of a Frugal Install and the slight benefits of a Full Install because on a Linux Formatted Partition you can choose to create a SaveFolder rather than a SaveFile. A SaveFile is created with a fixed size. If you under-estimate how large a SaveFile you need you would have to resize it (application to do that is on the Menu). I prefer SaveFiles and have never needed one greater than 2 Gb, that with 'the kitchen sink' installed. Large programs --like libreoffice-- don't reside in the SaveFile. They are available as SFSes --squashed/compressed file systems-- on your hard drive loaded when needed (always on bootup if you want) and unloaded when not. Full installs can't use SFSes. They must be installed, taking up 3 times the space on your drive.

A SaveFolder has no fixed size. It will automatically expand to the entire available space on its partition as and when you install applications and data into it. A SaveFile is compressed --which is why it takes a little longer to access the information within it. A SaveFolder is not, which provides the 'speed benefit' of a Full install. But not being compressed, it also requires as much as 3 times the space on its drive as that used by a SaveFile to contain the same applications and data.

mikesLr
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Replicators

Joined: 02 Jan 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 06 Jan 2018, 14:28    Post subject:  

Ok, frugal is the way to go then. I think i figured it out now. Thank's for the information guy's.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5397
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan 2018, 04:20    Post subject:  

Can't agree with mike - too much compression going on. Let's see the uncompressed operating system, at least, because we cannot see the other compressions going on without resort to whole disc editors, assembler dissemblers and down to digital bit levels. FULL install is the only way forward - see what's what and what you're trying to do with it!
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan 2018, 09:12    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
too much compression going on. Let's see the uncompressed operating system, at least, because we cannot see the other compressions going on without resort to whole disc editors, assembler dissemblers and down to digital bit levels. FULL install is the only way forward - see what's what and what you're trying to do with it!

I have both frugal and full puppy installs. Full install does work for me with recent woof-CE puppies, and has it's perks, like if you are starving for RAM (<=1GB) and want to use modern browser on busy social media and video sites without an adblocker or noscript. Once you boot into a frugal puppy though, or even when you click on an sfs, you can see the full uncompressed files, so I don't see how that is an issue... unless you mean seeing it from another OS, but who needs anything other than Puppy? Laughing Windows/DOS can't even see ext partitions without added software anyway. I think your complaint only exists because you didn't know you could click on sfs files then "View contents" to open them? or are you talking about the initrd.gz and vmlinuz? Smile
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davids45


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1143
Location: Chatswood, NSW

PostPosted: Sun 07 Jan 2018, 20:18    Post subject: Frugal then Full
Subject description: Have Both - if your computer has the capacity
 

G'day Replicators,

Like Sailor Enceladus, I have Full and Frugal Pups on my desktop.

There's plenty of room for both as I have two hard drives (each about 500GB) and over 1GB of RAM.

I'd agree that starting and learning with the Frugal Pup format is the better option as it's so simple to re-do when a trial turns into an error Sad .
Just delete the Save file and go again. Even better if before a trial, you save the Save file (there's an app in the Utilities Menu) so you can re-start from where you left off by using the last Save file, rather than back at 'square 1'.

Full Pups are more trouble to fix since its whole partition may need re-doing in case of a disaster. I give each Full its partition of about 3GB (with GParted) but run and store a lot of stuff in the Fulls from my very large data partition. Otherwise, Fulls will need more space in their partitions - maybe as much as 10GB for each Full Shocked .

Frugals only need a sub-directory and many Pups can happily co-exist in a moderately sized partition. I have over twenty Frugal Pups on a 30GB partition - I use a separate menu.lst file for the Frugals.

Once you're happy with a Frugal and would like it also as a Full, set up a smallish empty partition for it and use the Universal Installer in the Frugal to create the Full. Adding your applications may be a bit different but sfs can be installed in most cases without problem. The new Full won't carry across your additions from the Frugal unless you re-master.

Have fun with both types.

David S.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5397
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jan 2018, 09:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
I give each Full its partition of about 3GB

Not quite what I do nor recommend. When did the price of HDs jump so much?! You only need an HD capacity >~10Gb to run a FULL, although there are plenty >40Gb and beyond gratis, slightly used (examine the S.M.A.R.T. record if you're suspicious or doubtful!). Fit a caddy(caddies) to your machines. FULL are best run on their own drive so that a wipe, update, upgrade or overwrite is inconsequential. Keep your data/downloads/bookmarks/addressbooks/emails backed-up on another disc or USB tab. Then there's Clonzilla - even Jesse on DW recommends it. Messing with Frugals & multi-distro partitions will eventually lead to disaster even for the gurus - doesn't seem logical (pun intended).
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1530

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:01    Post subject:  

[quote="Sage"]
Quote:
Messing with Frugals & multi-distro partitions will eventually lead to disaster even for the gurus Rolling Eyes - doesn't seem logical (pun intended).



Well, guess my long gone gramps was right. The world just went to sh!t the day the carburator became obsolete Laughing
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2522
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jan 2018, 13:51    Post subject:  

Actually, IIRC, mikeb put me to the fact that logical partitions are 'experimental' when I reported that mine kept disappearing.

@ belham2, your gramps was an optimist. The world went to shit when they substituted a mechanical device for the mule that pulled an elevator's ropes.

mikesLr
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2018, 22:26    Post subject: Xenial Pup works well on HP zv5000  

Works fine on HP zv5000 from 2004, which has a huge amount of memory (2GB).

Pale Moon 27.6.1 (now outdated) plays Youtube perfectly at all resolutions.
Pale Moon 27.6. in Tahr 6.0.5 and Lupu 2016 does not - only plays at 360p.

Where do I find libQt5* libraries to use with the latest smtube?
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jan 2018, 22:27    Post subject: Xenial Pup works well on HP zv5000  

Works fine on HP zv5000 from 2004, which has a huge amount of memory (2GB).

Pale Moon 27.6.1 (now outdated) plays Youtube perfectly at all resolutions.
Pale Moon 27.6. in Tahr 6.0.5 and Lupu 2016 does not - only plays at 360p.

Where do I find libQt5* libraries to use with the latest smtube?
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Brown Mouse

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 503
Location: Canary Islands

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jan 2018, 16:57    Post subject:  

Can't get my Acer netbook to see any WiFi signal from my router or any other hotspots on Xenial.
Tried Frisbee,simple network connection etc..
Do I need to install a certain driver?

TIA
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10863
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jan 2018, 23:10    Post subject:  

If the computers wireless adapter is listed in the network connection programs the driver is probably loaded and running it.

Sure the computers wireless on/off switch is on?

Really need the info on what the wireless adapter is.
Make and model.

Pup-sysinfo>Devices>Network
Does the wireless adapter show up with info about it?
If yes.
Post the info!!

Could be a driver missing.
Try installing this pet and reboot.
Make sure you have a save so the pet install sticks.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-xenial/32/atheros_kernel_modules-4.4.95noPAE-xenial32.pet

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Brown Mouse

Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 503
Location: Canary Islands

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 05:47    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
If the computers wireless adapter is listed in the network connection programs the driver is probably loaded and running it.

Sure the computers wireless on/off switch is on?

Really need the info on what the wireless adapter is.
Make and model.

Pup-sysinfo>Devices>Network
Does the wireless adapter show up with info about it?
If yes.
Post the info!!

Could be a driver missing.
Try installing this pet and reboot.
Make sure you have a save so the pet install sticks.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-xenial/32/atheros_kernel_modules-4.4.95noPAE-xenial32.pet


Hi bigpup

Many thanks for the info' and link to the Atheros driver.pet.
I installed it,rebooted and the wifi search led activated.
Connected up using the Frisbee option and it has remained connected.

Not had this issue before with any Puppy and wondered if it may be a good idea to incorporate the driver into the Xenial iso?

Thanks again bigpup.
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