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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Xenialpup CE 7.5 / 25 Nov 2017
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10879
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 06:11    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
666philb,

When you going to update the iso with the missing atheros driver modules?
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-xenial/32/atheros_kernel_modules-4.4.95noPAE-xenial32.pet

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan 2018, 19:53    Post subject: xenial pup will not install on Gateway ARC-200 (2003)
Subject description: cannot mount sfs68
 

2003 1.4GHz 1GB RAM Gateway ARC-200 (may be same as Samsung NX05).
Works perfectly with Puppy 4.1.2 (pulp), 4.3.1 (retro), Lucid 5.2.8.7 and 2016, and Tahr 6.0.5.
Xenial will not boot. Complains right away it cannot mount the .sfs.
Then wants me to run fsck on a fat32 sda1 partition which was not properly unmounted.
Exits eventually with: "Error is too critical"

I ran e2fsck on all the ext2 partitions. The one I am installing to was fine.
The one I run the other linuxes from had a few errors but they worked anyway.

I have several large .log files saved to disk, and dmesg. What should I upload here?

No known hardware problems except it no longer reads DVDs (it reads CDs)
and the internal wifi slot may be failing (two cards in it were very slow - 400Kbps and 3Mbps)
and dead CMOS battery. (I use network time). Which may be why it won't boot to hard disk unless a CD is in the drive.

Xenial works perfectly on a 2004 1.6GHz HP zv5000. It cannot handle the nv video on a 2007 HP dv6500.
(Nor can Tahr or Slacko).
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10879
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 04:35    Post subject:  

Quote:
dead CMOS battery.

Need to change the battery.
That powers more than the internal clock.

Just be careful with the clip that holds the battery in the holder.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 09:10    Post subject:  

@sindi: Does musher0's xenialpup-7.0.6 work?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=111879

And how about xenialpup-7.0.8.1?
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/test/xenialpup/xenialpup-7.0.8.1-uefi.iso

If either one works, this might help narrow down the issue (kernel, a woof-ce change, or something in xenial itself).
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 12:17    Post subject: laptop CMOS/RTC battery replacement  

[quote="bigpup"][quote]dead CMOS battery.[/quote]
Need to change the battery.
That powers more than the internal clock.

Just be careful with the clip that holds the battery in the holder.[/quote]

I know it needs a new battery, which is only $8 on ebay, but replacing it requires taking the laptop completely apart. No clip - it is a small coin battery with plastic sheathing and two wires with a plug that plugs into the board. We had the 200ARC apart once to replace the hard drive. It boots from hard disk only if it finds a CD no matter the boot order (F2, BIOS setup, reboot). A new battery might not fix that. We can probably solder some small coin cell taken from something else to the two wires when we find the time.

I am checking out xenial because smtube stopped working at youtube with lucid puppy and I thought I would update to xenial instead of tahr.

No other puppy yet has had problems related to CMOS battery. Is this something to do with UEFI boot (which it does not do)?

I am downloading xenial 7.0.8.1. 319MB. 12 minutes even after the internet provider decided to triple our speed recently. I would appreciate a smaller xenial to experiment with. Maybe an iso without UEFI support?
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 725
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 12:57    Post subject: Re: laptop CMOS/RTC battery replacement  

sindi (in part) wrote:
.. I would appreciate a smaller xenial to experiment with.

Sindi, good luck with that computer.

uefi support may be irrelevant; I have one such 'uefi-supporting' Puppy, it works on this non-uefi
laptop Dell E6400. I just put the essential files vmlinuz, etc into a directory for frugal booting.

Please see musher0's xenial, at
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971619#971619

I'm using it as my everyday OS.

Sheldon

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Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
Intel D865GBF, Intel DQ35JOE
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 14:01    Post subject: xenial 7.0.6 - where to find non-PAE version?  

Please see musher0's xenial, at
[url]http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971619#971619[/url]

The xenial-7.0.6.iso from augras.eu was PAE and refuses to boot. Where is a 32-bit iso?

7.0.8.1 lacks pico nano and e3pi. I found md.
When I type mount (in a terminal) ROX-Filer complains about no X.
But framebuffer console works well.
I use linux mainly in terminal mode (not urxvt) except when forced to use a javascript browser.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 14:21    Post subject: Re: xenial 7.0.6 - where to find non-PAE version?  

sindi wrote:
7.0.8.1 lacks pico nano and e3pi. I found md.
When I type mount (in a terminal) ROX-Filer complains about no X.
But framebuffer console works well.
I use linux mainly in terminal mode (not urxvt) except when forced to use a javascript browser.

Interesting, so you're saying that 7.0.8.1 did not have the "cannot mount the sfs" problem when booting then?

To determine if it's an issue with recent woof-CE, can you also try the puduan or slacko-5.7.1 builds here (they are nopae):
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112300
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=979493#979493
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10879
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 17:28    Post subject:  

Quote:
I would appreciate a smaller xenial to experiment with. Maybe an iso without UEFI

There is very little added to support UEFI bioes booting.
If the computer is not UEFI bios, this added stuff is not used. So Xenialpup can boot OK on legacy bios.

Several things can cause cannot find Xenialpup sfs.
The older the computer the more items can affect this.

First, you have Xenialpup installed on what?

The very new Linux kernels are dropping support for some older hardware. Xenialpup is using those kernels.
Your computer may be one of these.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2525
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 19:54    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:

,,,
The very new Linux kernels are dropping support for some older hardware. Xenialpup is using those kernels.
Your computer may be one of these.


Fortunately, neither my desktop nor laptop have had to deal with that situation. But I hope that, at least for others, someone with the generosity and expertise of rerwin will keep Tahrpup revitalized.

mikesLr
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 20:20    Post subject: xenial pup versions on Gateway 200ARC (Samsung NX05)
Subject description: 7.0.8.1 works, 7.0.1 7.0.6 7.5 do not
 

Gateway 200ARC from 2003, Pentium M with PC2100 (FSB 400MHz). Unlike other laptops with pc2100 it can take 1GB RAM.
I read that Pentium M 400Mhz cpus do not have/do PAE though most other Pentiums including Pro do.
This explains why 7.0.6 will not work. Does 7.5 32-bit have a PAE kernel?

I can test all four versions on a DELL Inspiron 8500 with 1GB, a DELL Inspiron D505 and a 600M with 768MB, and a Thinkpad
T41 with 512MB, all PC2100 2003 Pentium M 400MHz FSB. And a DELL 5150 from 2003 - PC2100 but Mobile Pentium 4

Is there some major advantage of 7.5 over 7.0.8 for 15 year old hardware?

Xenial 7.5 works on an HP zv5000 from 2004 which takes 2GB PC2700 (fsb 533).

I will check out the other two linuxes another time. My partner is happily using 7.0.8 on the Gateway 200ARC right now
with a slightly outdated Palemoon for his email, banking, and medical websites.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 21:27    Post subject: Xenial uses more than 1GB memory, 4.9 kernel slow  

Tested Xenial 7.0.8 (three other versions will not load) in 1GB on a Pentium M with 1GB PC2100.

Pale Moon with three sites open. Memory usage over 100%.

Plays Daily Motion and also Youtube at all resolutions.

Takes about five minutes to load the Daily Motion site even with much of the javascript blocked. Is this why 7.0.6 uses the older 4.1 kernel?

Lucid Puppy - plays only 360p Youtube unless you enable WebM (said to mess up other sites), does not play Daily Motion (Blop - update your browser), but runs fine in 512MB with Pale Moon and several open windows. I use the 2.6 kernel. It failed on one computer (video problem) but a later kernel version worked It works where Slacko, Tahr, and Xenial will not display legibly. Youtube-dl works. It won't run GTK3 browsers.

Wary Linux 5.5 is similar but youtube-dl does not work and only one Youtube Downloader extension works.

Tahr Puppy - suggests 768MB but if I kill clipit retrovol and everything else possible it works in 512MB and plays Daily Motion and also all resolutions of Youtube, and works with smtube 18.1 (Lucid does not). It has e3pi.

Xenial appears to be a poor fit for Pentium M's from 2003 (with PC2100, FSB 400) because the older faster kernel 4.1 requires PAE 'which they have not got'. DELL D505, 600M, 8500, Thinkpad 41, 200ARC.
These older laptops are non-glare. Few newer ones are.
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sindi

Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 853
Location: Ann Arbor MI USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 22:34    Post subject: xenial pup 7.0.6 works on 2004 HP zv5000 FSB 533 (PC2700)  

Xenial 7.0.6 with 4.1 kernel works fine on a new enough laptop that is NOT Pentium M FSB 533.

Memory usage after subtracting cache is about 700MB. I was able to kill clipit, retrovol, cupsd and much more to cut that in half (370MB used) leaving enough RAM to run Pale Moon on a computer with 512MB (I hope).
Does the older kernel use less RAM than 4.9?

PAE is supposed by Pentium Pro, II, III, and everything else except Pentium M with FSB 400MHz (which I have at least five of that will all hold 1GB RAM).

A non-PAE kernel 4.1 version of 7.0.6 would probably work.

7.0.8 works but slowly. Back to Tahr/Lucid.

Thanks for all the advice.
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 725
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan 2018, 23:31    Post subject: Re: xenial pup 7.0.6 works on 2004 HP zv5000 FSB 533 (PC2700)  

sindi (in part) wrote:

A non-PAE kernel 4.1 version of 7.0.6 would probably work.

At http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971880#971880
musher0 said
"It's the same kernel as the one in the iso, but with PAE enabled."

Ah, seems that musher0's 'original' xenial, at
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971619#971619
is non-PAE

I'll try to run it on another computer. I think my older desktop may have Pentium M. And I have a couple of netbooks with Atom processors.

_________________
Dell E6410: Xenial, etc
Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
Intel D865GBF, Intel DQ35JOE

Last edited by sheldonisaac on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 09:53; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10879
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jan 2018, 02:41    Post subject:  

sindi you are doing exactly what you have to do using Puppy.
If a version of Puppy does not work for your computer.
Go try a different one.

No one version of Puppy will support all possible hardware.
That is impossible in a 300MB operating system.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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