Fatdog64-720 and 721 Final [11 Jan 2018]

[slowride]

@step
Your perception is again accurate. Upon review, it may be possible to carry out #4 on the live (ish) system w/o even paper.

@Anyone proficient::

This "existant OS" I saw (>1) in #4 FAQ, and else where ( >1) -- Tabula Rasa. Many stored FILES, no OS.

#1 ?q? is it expected the new user has "resident already" one, or is it REQUIRED that one be existant?
#1a: If "existant" response shows a positive consensus should I drop back inat LQ for that? Absence of GTK3 is what led me to Puppy to begine with. GTK3 isn't just an eyesore, it's downright limitting and un-co-operative. "hamburgers" on the WRONG side of box, more often than not absent clear File, Edit, or anything remotely resembling a sensibly organized menu (all LOSSES with NO benefits... WHY Gnu, why?) Most all "mainstream Disto" are default-INFESTED with this infernal nuisance.... I don't want to stir poo without the spoon ELSE-where, if they'll have no viable solution to offer me?
#2 ?q? re: "LPT1 not possible". Clarify? not from "my present mess" or "not possible" (period) The HP "magic boxa wtf" is not what LPT's underlying "mastication" was designed to efficiently feed: The voracious appetite of = "high performance" TELETYPE

#2a: if printing IS a possibility, ask @ hardware area?

@sage -- I clearly read YOU use the phrase

a well-protected ___ install

I've not formed conclusions or made decisions. Focuse of ?Q? is "well protected" should you feel inclined to give an example of what that means to you -- I've an open question over in the security area. btw my email is borked, sorry...
@dr. Dan
Scanned your URL. WOW. Bookmarked. Quality tools are NEVER free. mkswap & swapon old standby's -- Still making sense of filesystem, Gotta stay focussed on settling in (reliable backup HD is after achieving print)

THANK YOU ALL!!
slowride

[snayak]

Dear All,

At http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/kernels/720/ I see a lot of kernels for FD 720. Now I use default kernel 4.14.6. Can I assume all my FD 720 applications will continue to work fine with these kernels?

[I know the standard disclaimer. ]

Hope that's the main idea behind this kernel repository. Right?

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak

[watchdog]

Changing kernels affects only drivers not applications...

[slowride]

@step
(+ anyone with patience)

re: FAQ #4 (Installing & boot loaders)

Worst case scenario, carry the silly printer over to kids m$ box and make the precious papers

I'm TABULA RASA. No OS boots from hard drive.

FAQ (the #4) step kindly pointed me at refers to existant OS (of many flavors)

Medical Condition: I can't spend too much time SEDENTARY (@ the CRT) 3hrs max a day tops. And should NOT be doin that much but I'm trying to get this thing where I can USE it... not fiddle with.

Based on the above -- don't hold my hand, I have the docs.

A: IS THE EXISTANT OS REQUIRED

B. IF SO I HAVE AN ISO FOR EVERYTHING (even the m$ up to 7, beyond that, not only no but he-ELEVEN no)

C. WHATS THE FASTEST OPTION, OF THOSE LISTED IN DOCS 2 get my puppy in the house?

D. I !Prefer !m$ cause the SOB steals an EXTRA partition someplace for it's very own WTF why??? I have no clue. that's parta what went wrong to begin with, I suspect was m$ "dandles" with the MBT strangely

E. Does the FatDog64 Install option expect to find a bootloader that's already "been dandled with"

F. Once I get there, I will hound some poor soul down to tell me how to disable the caps lock key, Got tactile issues @ fingers (construction work, yay!!!) damn thing turns on when I don't tell it to all the *&^# time

Apologies for techno-tardation. I'm mostly a Graphic Arts // Video Production head.

[snayak]

Dear watchdog,

I admit your point.

Changing kernels affects only drivers not applications...

But I get doubt, if we are thing so, then why we need to upgrade kernel? Can we have all latest software running on 2.6 kernel?

Please correct me if I am missing something while understanding it.

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak

[watchdog]

The main reason to upgrade the kernel may be because of an unrecognized hardware (a new machine not supported by older kernels) or for security reasons.
Old machines surely might work with old kernels of the same age: newer kernels continues to support them generally adding new features and security improvements. Allthough it's a good idea to use kernels of similar age of your machine. New machines generally requires only recent kernels. This is my thought. Even though I can use all the recent kernels with my celeron single core laptop 8-9 years aged. In the past I changed kernels to ensure the recognition of the network eth card because of particular kernels not compiled with that driver. In some cases a better kernel speed-up the boot time.

[snayak]

Thanks watchdog for your quick reply.
I agree.
May be latest softwares demand latest libraries such as libc, libc++, gtk etc. If so, it seems we can build all these libraries and latest softwares on old running OS, for example Fatdog 611.

Any idea if it can be done and how?

Sincerely,
Srinivas Nayak

[watchdog]

I'm not so expert... Compiling glibc could be a nightmare for low skilled guys and I think that recent applications, such as recent browsers, require a whole software environment. Internet itself is becoming heavy to surf and requires not only new libraries but also new machines. When time comes and you want to run recent code or surf the modern heavy internet, then change your hardware and use a newer puppy. Use instead old puppies for old machines keeping a filter of noscripts, no ads and no heavy contents for the browser: I can still use puppy 4.31 with palemoon 27.8.1 glibctweaked. I know somebody who still runs puppy 3.01 without any heavy upgrade.

[drunkjedi]

Hey Fatdog team,
I have 6gb RAM and I load base sfs in RAM with 'expand' boot parameter.

Any way to have 'expand' flag for 'extrasfs=' boot option too.

Thanks in advance.

[step]

edit: Two posts down I addressed your questions directly.

@slowride,

Sorry, I lost track of your attempts. I need to ask you, before I can answer your questions:

1. You have a working computer in the house; what OS does it run now?

2. Did you download the Fatdog64-721 iso? If so, where is it saved now? a) USB key; b) hard disk partition; c) other media - which media?
If you do have the iso file, did you by any chance copy it using the "dd" command?

3. Does the computer you want to install Fatdog64 on have a CD/DVD drive? How old (years) is that computer?

I function better if you keep your answers short and to the point. Thank you.

As regards the general sense of your questions, which I gather is, "What's the fastest way to get Fatdog running on this tabula rasa computer?", if you can properly prepare a CD or DVD with the Fatdog ISO on it, that's the most sure-fire way to get started. To get the ISO on CD/DVD media you need a working computer, and apply the correct method to "burn" the ISO file to the CD.

If CD media isn't possible, you could use a USB key instead, provided that your PC BIOS can boot from a USB key. The method to "burn" an ISO file to a USB key is different than for a CD.

Step by step we'll get you there.

[dr. Dan]

@step,
might slowride want to keep the other OSs he had previously? Fatdog64 is best, but I can't tell from the various posts what his goal is.
Dan

[step]

@dr. Dan,

I too can't tell what slowride's precise goal is.

@slowride,

In my previous post I was somewhat hand-holding you.

Based on the above -- don't hold my hand, I have the docs.

So I want. Let me stick to your questions.

I'm TABULA RASA. No OS boots from hard drive.

You are? Or is your computer tabula rasa? I take "tabula rasa" to mean that nothing is currently installed on your hard drive. If you meant something else please restate it.

FAQ (the #4) step kindly pointed me at refers to existant OS (of many flavors)

A: IS THE EXISTANT OS REQUIRED

Yes, but your question is so broad that it can easily lead to misundestanding.

To install an OS #2, any OS, you need a working computer that runs a working OS #1.
(1) The OS #1, which runs on the computer, need not be already installed on that computer, but often is.
(2) The computer that will run OS #2 can be, and most of the times is, the same computer that runs OS #1.
(3) The OS #2, which you're installing, need not be the same OS #1 that the computer is running.

The typical cases in this thread - in order of decreasing simplicity - are:

- OS #1 Fatdog; OS #2 Fatdog upgrade; computer for OS #1 and OS #2 the same.
- OS #1 Windows; OS #2 Fatdog; computer for OS #1 and OS #2 the same.
- OS #1 and OS #2 as above but two different computers, one is the installation target, the other one is to be used as a temporary tool for the installation.

Are you in one of the above cases? Which one?

B. IF SO I HAVE AN ISO FOR EVERYTHING (even the m$ up to 7, beyond that, not only no but he-ELEVEN no)

B is not a question.

C. WHATS THE FASTEST OPTION, OF THOSE LISTED IN DOCS 2 get my puppy in the house?

I don't know what options you are referring to. List the options in your question.

D. I !Prefer !m$ [...] steals an EXTRA partition [...] why???

I don't know why it does. I've seen Windows 7 laborious installations where a single partition was enough. I don't know about Windows 8 or 10.

E. Does the FatDog64 Install option expect to find a bootloader that's already "been dandled with"

No. Fatdog installer itself can install a boot loader if you tick the option.

F. Once I get there, I will hound some poor soul down to tell me how to disable the caps lock key [...]

I don't know, but others might.

[drunkjedi]

F. Once I get there, I will hound some poor soul down to tell me how to disable the caps lock key, Got tactile issues @ fingers (construction work, yay!!!) damn thing turns on when I don't tell it to all the *&^# time

Hi Slowride,
After you get Fatdog installed, to disable caps lock key do the following,

1) Open a Terminal Emulator. ( By clicking on 'Menu', then 'Utility', then 'Rxvt-Unicode terminal emulator'.)

2) Enter the following command (Edit: modified the commands slightly, thanks to dr.Dan)

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option caps:none

Done.

If you want to enable caps lock again enter following commands in terminal

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option

Followed by

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setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt-bksp

To restore everything back to normal.

[snayak]

I tried installing ddd and libmotif from the package manager.
ddd starts but I can't work with it. Am I missing something? It always says gdb is not ready!

Anybody found it working fine?

Also it complains xfontsel not found to change font of ddd.
Any way out?

[step]

@snayak,

it works for me on Fatdog-721:

Code: Select all

# slapt-get -i ddd
Reading Package Lists...Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  ddd 
0 upgraded, 0 reinstalled, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove, 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 880.0kB of archives.
1/1 Get http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/packages/720/ ddd 3.3.12-x86_64-1 [880.0kB]...Done

# etc.

# slapt-get -i libmotif
Reading Package Lists...Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libmotif 
0 upgraded, 0 reinstalled, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove, 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 2.0MB of archives.
1/1 Get http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/packages/720/ libmotif 2.3.6-x86_64-1 [2.0MB]...Done

# etc.

# ddd &
Creating "/root/.ddd/"...
Creating "/root/.ddd/"...done.
Creating "/root/.ddd/sessions/"...
Creating "/root/.ddd/sessions/"...done.
Creating "/root/.ddd/themes/"...
Creating "/root/.ddd/themes/"...done.
Warning: This program is an suid-root program or is being run by the root user.
The full text of the error or warning message cannot be safely formatted
in this environment. You may get a more descriptive message by running the
program as a non-root user or by removing the suid bit on the executable.
(Annoyed?  Try 'Edit->Preferences->General->Suppress X Warnings'!)
Warning: Cannot convert string "%s" to type %s
Warning: Could not load font "-*-lucidatypewriter-medium-*-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*", using font "fixed" instead
Warning: Could not load font "-*-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*", using font "fixed" instead
Warning: Could not load font "-*-lucidatypewriter-bold-*-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*", using font "fixed" instead

Then I can open a binary file - for which I have the C source code and which was compiled with debugging symbols - in ddd and debug it.
I guess you do have the devx SFS loaded, right?

[dr. Dan]

Hi Slowride,
After you get Fatdog installed, to disable caps lock key do the following,

1) Open a Terminal Emulator. ( By clicking on 'Menu', then 'Utility', then 'Rxvt-Unicode terminal emulator'.)

2) Enter the following command

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option ctrl:nocaps

Done.

If you want to enable caps lock again enter following command in terminal

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option

@drunkjedi,
Thanks for the info! That's handy! However, I noticed that

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option

seems to disable the <control-alt-backspace> preset. Entering

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setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt-bksp

adds it back.
Dan

[drunkjedi]

@drunkjedi,
Thanks for the info! That's handy! However, I noticed that

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option

seems to disable the <control-alt-backspace> preset. Entering

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt-bksp

adds it back.
Dan

Hi Doc,

Yes what you found is correct.
The command "setxkbmap -option" wipes all options set before.

Stupid me assumed nothing was set initially.

Running -query argument in pristine fatdog gives

Code: Select all

# setxkbmap -query
rules:      evdev
model:      pc105
layout:     us
options:    terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

I do not know how to remove just one option.
But I took a look in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst (Which is just a symbolic link to /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst)
This file lists all options we can set with setxkbmap command.

And found I was foolishly making a third ctrl key with "setxkbmap -option ctrl:nocaps" command.

Actual command to only disable caps lock should be

Code: Select all

setxkbmap -option caps:none

I will edit it in my previous post.

Will have to search for just removing a single option.

Thanks again Doc.

[slowride]

@step ( and dr. Dan, drunkjedi, you folks are wonderful)

When it comes to PUPPY "meh" is "Tabula Rasa" (in appalachia that's air taybewluh....

I. END GOAL:
---> Boot-Loader FatDog default with "options"

II. CHALLENGE
--- > NOT LOOSE the backed up data
A. There's a 1tb drive in the laptop, might have space there

Still support son's m$ machine and graphic/video editting sometimes warrant "short bus OS" tools...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

edit: Two posts down I addressed your questions directly.

1. You have a working computer in the house; what OS does it run now?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer (Dell Optiplex 780, 3.0Ghz, 4GB ram, 1tb HD + 300g "might die any minute")

The 1tb is in 4 partitions (the max). The 300g I only use temporary (moving things)

Has Fatdog 721 loaded onto a 4GB USB drive.

There is no "Native OS" within box yet. Only +/- 500G backups on the 1tb drive.

Have also a laptop that started to load m$7, (to verify if it ran at all) just turned it off. It has one stuck key, but partially usable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2. < - snip -> did you by any chance copy it using the "dd" command?

I suspect I did. In the future I'll keep notes (duh. aircraft mechanic should use checklist on computer? WHAT?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Does the computer you want to install Fatdog64 on have a CD/DVD drive? How old (years) is that computer?

Has DVD/CD writer. (un-tested) I beleive MFR date 2008/9? BIOS date is 2013.

I can not use hardware manufactured after 2012. Snitch Chipz.

The 1tb drive I'm installing on: new WD, Dec. 2017 (and I didn't check to see what "strange" stuff is on it's PCB board - dumb. I know)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
< - snip ->
working computer, and apply the correct method to "burn" the ISO file to the CD.

I'll have to get some CD media at the $tore.

- - - -
Got an old UPS, but it keeps the AC clean. So in spite of sudden outage, no data at all was lost.

FatDog64 is still running beautifully.

[dr. Dan]

I. END GOAL:
---> Boot-Loader FatDog default with "options"

II. CHALLENGE
--- > NOT LOOSE the backed up data
A. There's a 1tb drive in the laptop, might have space there

Still support son's m$ machine and graphic/video editting sometimes warrant "short bus OS" tools...

The 1tb is in 4 partitions (the max). The 300g I only use temporary (moving things)

Has Fatdog 721 loaded onto a 4GB USB drive.

There is no "Native OS" within box yet. Only +/- 500G backups on the 1tb drive.

Have also a laptop that started to load m$7, (to verify if it ran at all) just turned it off. It has one stuck key, but partially usable.
The 1tb drive I'm installing on: new WD, Dec. 2017 (and I didn't check to see what "strange" stuff is on it's PCB board - dumb. I know)

FatDog64 is still running beautifully.

@slowride:

Just to confirm a few details,

1) You want to install Fatdog64 to sda1. You intend to use sda4 as swap, sda2 as win7, sda3 as storage. Is that right? How large is each partition?

2) Is the Fatdog64-721 .iso on the flash drive?

3) Do you want to use any additional OS?

4) Did you mainly use SUSE, or have you tried various other distributions?

5) Win7 is not currently installed, Is that correct? When you install it later, it will alter your boot loader, and your will want to re-install from Fatdog64 and configure the Windows details.

6) The Fatdog64 Installer should only write to the partition you want to install to, and the MBR. It shouldn't touch the storage partition whatsoever. The Windows Installer is not so considerate.

7) I am running Win7 (rarely) on a laptop without the hidden 200Mb system maintenance partition without issue. Also, you can have more than 4 partitions, though you may not need more than you have to do what you want to do.

I'll let someone else be your guide (see my first and second reply), I only hope to make the details clearer.

Dan

[TyroBGinner]

I am going to put this out yet again.

I want to use a piece of hardware - a hard drive enclosure - that works fine with the usb-storage driver but not with the uas driver. Fatdog insists on loading the uas driver, and there seems to be no way to turn it off. Attempting to implement the device quirk in the usb-storage driver does not work, and any sort of attempt at blacklisting the uas driver does not work either. Maddeningly, all these drivers are built in, so it seems like the user is fixed to these drivers.

Surely there is some general interest in having the option to use one driver over another. Many of us have hardware that is particular about drivers, and we would like the ability to have broader functionality offered by improved or alternative drivers. The puppy linux variants that I have tried, namely fatdog and xenialpup, both seem to have just about everything built in instead of being appended as modules.

Is there a way to blacklist a driver or enable quirks in loaded drivers? If not, it seems that the only was around this is to recompile the kernel - an utterly extreme last resort. The community would be well-served to have a way around the no-win situation of choosing between recompiling the kernel and living with reduced or eliminated functionality.