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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 3221
Location: holland

PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2018, 14:24    Post subject:  

Boycot Facebook !!, "Bye Bye" event from Dutch television show: Zondag met Lubach:
https://youtu.be/ysa-SzNepsA

Fred

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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3476
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr 2018, 13:43    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Come on guys take off your tinfoil hats. We all know that Facebook is the information gathering arm of the Department of Defense..
But if you use a smartphone they already know everything anyway.
Microsoft and Google are both data mining corporations.
At least I run an OS I can trust..
I created the group with the assumption that there were multitudes of Puppy users that we never knew about due to their lack of use of this forum. That turned out to be true.
In fact the Group has forked into several specific language Groups.
It's proving to be a great outlet to share Puppy knowledge, and test new ideas.
So, turn off TOR, take off the tinfoil hats, and join us!

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Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!

Puppy since 2.15CE...
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 02:52    Post subject: Congratulations from Douglas !  

Congratulations from Douglas ! Don't use Facebook, don't use Puppy Linux, use my Xenialdog ! Customers are adults, we use what we want.
What i am sure is that the Puppy Linux forum is where to ask for help when Xenialdog is concerned. XenialDog is not a Puppy. How-to use or repair has to be asked somewhere, but not on Facebook.
Fredx181, do you like Puppy Linux ? or you just need it..
Facebook is a shopwindow for Puppies, this forum is a repair station or help desk, with a subdivision for programming.. I find that this subdivison tried and succeed in nobody suscribing.. If Pelo or me frigthened users, that is not reallly prooved elsewhere, where they get on the contrary very popular.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3476
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 12:56    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello.
I consider the "dogs" to be Puppies, and encourage their users to join us as well. I use Tahrpup, but also Debiandog. So....

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I am Lead Dog of the
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook
Join us!

Puppy since 2.15CE...
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 15:02    Post subject:  

puppyluvr wrote:
Very Happy Hello.
I consider the "dogs" to be Puppies

You are of course entitled to your own opinion. Others see it as having had the main "Puppy Projects" section having been hijacked to the extent of considerable confusion. Predominance in Misc Other or maybe Puppy Derivatives would have been more polite/acceptable (if at all, most other distro's message boards would be much more intolerant).
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 3221
Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 15:46    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
puppyluvr wrote:
Very Happy Hello.
I consider the "dogs" to be Puppies

You are of course entitled to your own opinion. Others see it as having had the main "Puppy Projects" section having been hijacked to the extent of considerable confusion. Predominance in Misc Other or maybe Puppy Derivatives would have been more polite/acceptable (if at all, most other distro's message boards would be much more intolerant).


Rufwoof, I was earlier (unpleasantly) surprised about some comments from you about "dogs", now I choose not to ignore.
What the f*ck you mean with "hijacked", it seems to me that word means something like "criminal" or "not legitimate"
https://www.thefreedictionary.comnot/hijacked
The dogs really doesn't deserve that definition IMO.
What happened to you? Why so negative? Why not see the dogs as an OS that some people possibly prefer to use? Same as people prefer Puppy (or whatever OS of choice) as the OS to use.

EDIT:
rufwoof wrote:
considerable confusion

Also I can't see what could be the confusion, dogs are very different from puppy, it's stated everywhere.
(inspired by e.g. puppy, porteus, slax ??: yes, sure it is)

Fred

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 18:41    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Rufwoof, I was earlier (unpleasantly) surprised about some comments from you about "dogs", now I choose not to ignore.
What the f*ck you mean with "hijacked", it seems to me that word means something like "criminal" or "not legitimate"
https://www.thefreedictionary.comnot/hijacked
The dogs really doesn't deserve that definition IMO.
What happened to you? Why so negative? Why not see the dogs as an OS that some people possibly prefer to use? Same as people prefer Puppy (or whatever OS of choice) as the OS to use.

EDIT:
rufwoof wrote:
considerable confusion

Also I can't see what could be the confusion, dogs are very different from puppy, it's stated everywhere.
(inspired by e.g. puppy, porteus, slax ??: yes, sure it is)

Fred

Inappropriately hijacked the "PUPPY PROJECTS" forum. As a for-instance, a third of the current first page of Puppy Projects has threads about non Puppy's and predominately Dogs. Spam for anyone who wishes to read about the Puppy Linux project.

That is not a criticism of your works Fred, the Dogs are good. But piggybacking off one of the primary Puppy threads is not appropriate IMO. Nor come to that is swearing.

What if 100's of the other Linux distros opted to start posting in that forum! Fortunately most have the courtesy not to and equally would object to others posting about alternative distros on their message board.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 22:44    Post subject:  

I'm pretty sure the situation of Dogs being part of Puppy forum has all been discussed over and over again and, for most, current situation accepted. I also think Fred, and Toni before him had said they would have no problem having a different section on murga forum provided for Dogs to avoid any possible confusion. On the other hand, Pups benefit from Dog developments and vice versa - at least in terms of utilities and info being developed on one or the other often being also made available to either. Personally, if Dogs went to a different forum, I'd probably not bother developing for Pups anymore since I'd become focussed on the forum I'm visiting (and I don't visit other forums much at all and hence do very little personal computer-related developments outside of Pups and Dogs). But a different Dog forum would be fine - less to think about... less work to do or care about.

As Fred, said, Dogs are not Pups - everyone here at least knows that - they are Debian/Ubuntu systems (pretty much using official Debian/Ubuntu core throughout and primarily now created using official debootstrap) - main deviation is possible boot methods, where, for example, a modified Porteus boot has become a favourite (because Debian itself doesn't as YET provide anything equivalent).

There has also been a lot of talk over the years concerning package management on Puppy - and so it continues. dpkg/apt is pure Debian but it does provide a nice functionality list that encourages Puppy, not so much to use apt (which I think is a dubious approach for Pups) but instead to improve a Puppy-own Package Management system to rival that of apt (for example sc0ttman is attempting to do that). FatDog not a Pup underneath either.

I do think Dog development is relatively easy (Debian does most of it, and very well...) but Pup development is hard, and hard to compete with Debian, but that is because Debian is hugely supported, it is not a fault of Dogs per se. Making Puppy better, on the other hand, is a challenge, which is exciting - package management and woof build system methodology/rebuild should be the key development targets IMO. Not dpkg/apt or debootstrap, but something as good - we could do this if only enough Puppy developers and less of the infamous self-styled-passenger complaints/grumbling (you know who I mean).

Bottom line is, if you want less people to visit this forum, less developers interested to do work on Puppy, then get rid of the Dogs. Whilst everyone has their own preference, the way things stand some of us use both. Get rid of Dogs and expect less active Puppy contributions (which are already scarily low to how things used to be - or so it seems to me - I don't think the Dogs cause that - rather it's because many more alternatives compete with Puppy nowadays). Part of the problem Puppy has, I feel, is that nowadays its development is primarily a result of 'do-ocracy'; no longer a determined benevolent dictator at the helm. The Dogs still have that (in the form of Fred); BarryK is creating a new product, which may well end up more popular than old Puppy itself - so much for 'retirement'! (my goodness, he even made a couple of minor, but was correct to do so, modifications to Precord recently)

Anyway, this is all old news. It's up to forum moderator/owner to decide what can be here or not - we are just the punters using/developing on the systems. Accusations (or even suggestion) of 'hijacking' is IMO an (unfortunate) lot of negative nonsense however.

wiak
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 23:43    Post subject: fredx181, why on(t you share your blog Dogs with us.  

fredx181, why don't you share your blog Dogs with us.... Showing puppies between xebnialdog, bionicdog, jessiedog.. is would be nice to share this space as You want Puppy Linux share Its Facebook and other fora..
Your House is mine, but my house is not yours.. vous squattez !.
Wiak, title is about puppy Facebook. What he could think, he likes or does not.. If people in Facebook need assistance about Xenialdog, i will send them to Dog Forum id est here. Because develop is nice hobby, but unpleasant assistance for troubleshooting let to Puppy, no ! Furthermore Facebook, that i consider is for chatting..
And i will conclude, if Puppy Linux took bad ways with Xenial, Artfulpup and Bionicpup are as least as good as dogs, even better because we have local forum to help, And Xenialdog has only developers..
FYI for spanish, Nilson morales assume assistance in Pupppy linux Facebook argentinos and South america.. Puppy linux Facebook brazil, hungary, Russia the same..
French as Fredx1181 don't like Facebook, so ...

Last edited by hamoudoudou on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:08; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:03    Post subject: Re: fredx181, why on(t you share your blog Dogs with us.  

hamoudoudou wrote:
fredx181, why don't you share your blog Dogs with us.... Showing puppies between xebnialdog, bionicdog, jessiedog.. is would be nice to share this space as You want Puppy Linux share Its Facebook and other fora..
Your House is mine, but my house is not yours.. vous squattez !.
Wiak, title is about puppy Facebook. What he could think, he lies or does not.. If people in Facebook need assistance about Xenialdog, i will send them to Dog Forum id est here. Because develop is nice hobby, but unpleasant assistance for troubleshooting let to Puppy, no ! Furthermore Facebook, that i consider is for chatting..


That's great Hama... I'm sorry I don't speak French because it is difficult to understand your meanings expressed in English. Fred's dog website is always advertised at foot of his posts (signature); what 'blog' are you talking about? A blog is not a forum - the forum used by Dogs and Puppy alike is here. Fine that Facebook just used for chat or whatever - nice to have many places for types of discussion - the forum however has always been where developement work is conducted (and there are threads specially for user help, newbie assistance and Howto's - projects are projects however, so Project thread, and Cutting Edge are often used for development discussions - why interfere with that very important work?

Be careful to get enough sleep Hama... It must be very late/early-in-dark-morning up there in France. Let's just develop, test, feedback - not complain about not enough support or too much development discussion. Plenty of threads available for all of these things - but inappropriate disruptions, to development threads, are never good.

EDIT:
Perhaps it is easy to set up a forum, but note that John Murga, who runs this forum, seems to take a back-seat (or maybe actively contributes to his forum under a different name). Fred (and most other developers) probably too busy already to start other specific forum, and that would ignore the fact that the Dogs to a large extent do have their roots in Puppy.

wiak

Last edited by wiak on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:13; edited 2 times in total
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:11    Post subject: Xenialdog users cannot obtain help here  

but in reality as Xenialdog users cannot obtain help here, they ask it in Puppy Linux Facebook..
Projects are only a part, a subdivision.
Asssistance is Boring, and Dogs devs dont want to assist.. Once developed, they jump to a new version. that is the reality. Public assistance of not foreseen in their project. Dogs are only brainstorming center.

Last edited by hamoudoudou on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:17; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:15    Post subject: Re: Xenialdog users cannot obtain help here  

hamoudoudou wrote:
but in reality as Xenialdog users cannot obtain help here, they ask it in Puppy Linux Facebook..


That really is nonsense and just stirring trouble Messieur Hama (correction: Monsieur... unless you have dual-personalities). Fred and others helping all the time on Dog-related threads (and elsewhere). You talk alot but help little if at all it seems to me. Maybe you are sleep deprived or have other issues you release your steam here?
EDIT:
I use personal Facebook to communicate with family members - but that is more than enough for me, so I never visit Puppy Facebook (or just recently to see what it was all about).

wiak
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:19    Post subject: ok with that.. i will transfer any help request here.  

ok with that.. i will transfer any help request here. Other Facebook members will do as they like..
Wiak, developers are very few, users are thousands.. It's easy to understand..
Wiak, why i want to tell you is that i appreciate you communication. We can disagree, debate, but i respect you. You are a nice guy..You.
The problem is not only wit Dogs, unfortunately.. People as Nilson Morales, or Medor in France are very few too. In France we have also devs who let their Puppy here, and you won't see them for years, until they come and deposit a new one.. not really trashed hre, but quite abandoned..

Last edited by hamoudoudou on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:26; edited 1 time in total
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:25    Post subject:  

That's good Hama... nice to hear it, but you have at times caused some problems. Certainly no reason why a person should ever feel the need to become any kind of developer, but developers do need some space to develop things but also want feedback regarding these developments. User assistance is a separate issue - that's the problem. Where Dog developments should be discussed is a matter of opinion. But wouldn't we all be sorry if developments all stopped - then there would be nothing to discuss - old Puppies would become relics - only those interested in antiques would still insist on talking about them, and slowly there would be less of you till even the potential developers outnumber you - that's no good either.

Without active development, Puppy would die because there are always other distributions being actively developed.

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 00:31    Post subject:  

I hate to say it, but I think DO-ocracy doesn't work particularly well (it works a little, but somehow unsatisfactory). Other small Linux distros have more organised structures/development teams (Slitaz, Tiny Linux) - yes they do not discuss other distro variants (which is a good point truly) but they never had roots in something else either (so Dogs a kind of special case anyway). Everyone is welcomed by these other small distros to contribute though - but it is true their forums do not have the feeling of a special kind of 'family' more generally. But there doesn't seem to be all this arguing on Tiny Linux or Slitaz and so on - and there products continue to be developed successfully and moving forward without becoming stale. Puppy's future not so clear to me. Unless one of Barry's newer products.

wiak
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