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xenialPup-7.0.6 32-bits with kernel 4.1
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futwerk

Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2018, 21:27    Post subject:  

new background.
xenialnew1a.jpg
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heywoodj

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2018, 23:03    Post subject: Cures poor performance from XenialPup-7.5 on older gear  

I have been using Puppy Linux since 2008 starting with 4.1.2, acquiring newer versions as I got "newer" hardware. Currently, I'm using Tahrpup64 on a hp/Compaq nx6325 (AMD Turion 2 Core @1600 MHz, 4 GB memory) with success, having previously used Tahrpup (32 bit) and Precise on this machine.

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the XenialPup64-7.5 to try out. It booted well enough, if slowly, taking almost twice as long as Tahrpup64 (almost 2 minutes vs' under 1 minute). The reported CPU temp was significantly lower (more than 15 C lower) but the performance was terrible. Everything responded slowly, so slowly that I would double click things because I thought I missed earlier. Hovering over the temp icon in the taskbar showed the CPU speeds as 800 MHz, half their rated speeds. Hmmm.

I understand that modern systems vary the CPU speed to keep power consumption down, but under no condition did I observe the CPU speed vary from the half speed, even when running video. I then tried the 32 bit version of XenialPup-7.5 with the same sad results.

I usually test new Puppies using a "cheat-frugal" install until I'm convinced it's worth making a more formal installation. To be sure the install was not the fault, I did a bonafide frugal install of XenialPup-7.5 with the same lack of speed.

I was almost ready to give up on XenialPup, at least on this machine, until I spied a link to this thread. It looks like the slightly older kernel was the fix that this machine needed! It boots in under a minute, snappy response, things just seem to work. The CPU temp is a little lower than Tahrpup & Tahrpup64, while reporting full CPU speed.

This is just a long way to say, "Merci, musher0!" You've made a winner!
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12816
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2018, 23:53    Post subject: Re: Cures poor performance from XenialPup-7.5 on older gear  

heywoodj wrote:
I have been using Puppy Linux since 2008 starting with 4.1.2, acquiring newer versions as I got "newer" hardware. Currently, I'm using Tahrpup64 on a hp/Compaq nx6325 (AMD Turion 2 Core @1600 MHz, 4 GB memory) with success, having previously used Tahrpup (32 bit) and Precise on this machine.

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the XenialPup64-7.5 to try out. It booted well enough, if slowly, taking almost twice as long as Tahrpup64 (almost 2 minutes vs' under 1 minute). The reported CPU temp was significantly lower (more than 15 C lower) but the performance was terrible. Everything responded slowly, so slowly that I would double click things because I thought I missed earlier. Hovering over the temp icon in the taskbar showed the CPU speeds as 800 MHz, half their rated speeds. Hmmm.

I understand that modern systems vary the CPU speed to keep power consumption down, but under no condition did I observe the CPU speed vary from the half speed, even when running video. I then tried the 32 bit version of XenialPup-7.5 with the same sad results.

I usually test new Puppies using a "cheat-frugal" install until I'm convinced it's worth making a more formal installation. To be sure the install was not the fault, I did a bonafide frugal install of XenialPup-7.5 with the same lack of speed.

I was almost ready to give up on XenialPup, at least on this machine, until I spied a link to this thread. It looks like the slightly older kernel was the fix that this machine needed! It boots in under a minute, snappy response, things just seem to work. The CPU temp is a little lower than Tahrpup & Tahrpup64, while reporting full CPU speed.

This is just a long way to say, "Merci, musher0!" You've made a winner!

Good to hear! Glad you like it! Thanks for the thanks, heywoodj.

I'll echo a substantial portion of your thanks upstream to the good people
who maintain the "woof-CE" builder, and to stemsee, who compiled the 4.1
kernel for this xenialPup flavor.

I hope you have a great time with it!

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Fidèle elle commença, ainsi elle restera. (Prov. canadien) /
Faithful she began, so will she stay. (Canadian prov.)
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr 2018, 00:02    Post subject: 64 bits is slow... and that is true.  

64 bits is slow... and that is true.
Bionic 32 bits is very fast, not only at boot.
There is something wrong in xenialpup.. It has always been something wrong, at least at home.. kind of freezing, progressive , whatever the kernel..
If artfulpup is a flavour, Bionic will be LTS, replacing Xenial.
Don't forget Stretch, quite perfect..
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heywoodj

Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr 2018, 01:30    Post subject:  

I just installed acpitool and now this laptop suspends and wakes up gracefully after the lid is closed. It even re-establishes Wifi connection without a fuss.
Woohoo!

Tahrpup64 never did that right for me -- I just got used to working around that quirk. No need for a workaround on XenialPup-7.0.6 !!
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nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2018, 21:12    Post subject: targeted hardware
Subject description: request for suggestions (RFC?)
 

{ESL here}
hello,
hehe i'm in trouble.
This is Atom N450 CPU with 2 GB RAM with a distro release version that doesn't support its own' repository hplip's wifi feature . {...] or something like that. (from what a launchpad bee worker wrote me) So I plan a move, to Puppy.
I've read some notes across Puppy domains about LxPup, Slacko 6.3.0 and XenialPup kernel 4.1 would suit best my netbook (box).
What are the security — or else concerns of having an old distro or old kernel running the system?
I am aware LxPup has recent updates[ ...] but LXDE? didn't its devs move to LxQt? Who is running LXDE, or what such matter would impact my computer usage?
Ah, I would better prefer to get a distro with minimal kernel (moded targeted at my hardware) + minimal pkgs for user friendlyness/web online video studying (college) and usual homework productivity programs.
Slacko64 fsfinstaller' full installer doesn't work? Maintainer recommends frugal install [...] I think this box handles 64 arch well, though = "Towards overall compatibility". I had reach couple programs which were not meant to 32 bit, so I had switched to 64 arch since that event.
Have a great time!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2690
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2018, 23:01    Post subject:  

Hi nbah07,

Best to repost your computer's specs and concerns on the Beginner's Section and ask for recommendations. However, here's my take.

Even though your computer's specs can support a 64-bit operating system you'll get much more responsive performance from a 32-bit system and should use one for as long as you can. Currently, there are very few 64-bit applications for which you won't be able to find a 32-bit version built for Puppies. However, the long term availability of the major 32-bit Web-browsers is questionable. Puppy Devs and Packagers are still providing 32-bit pets and/or SFSes of web-browsers based on Chrome and its clones, and firefox and its clones. I wouldn't be worried about the next year or so, but later is anybody's guess. If you don't know what an SFS is, be sure to find out.

If I recall correctly, support for LxQt has languished while Lxde continues. As you probably know, this version of Xenialpup does not include Lxde out-of-the box and it would be a PITA to try to install and configure that window manager. However, you could install FbBox. Just download the pet from here, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=769018#769018, Left-Click it and follow the instructions. It offers almost everything that Lxde has --AFAIK, the exception is that panels can only have one vertical or horizontal row-- and has several nifty features which Lxpanel lacks. With the exceptions of LxPups and those using xfce as window manager, it can be installed in any Puppy. OpenboxPlus (choice of LxPanel or Tint2) is available here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=703730#703730. Not certain it will work under Puppies not mentioned there.

Frugal is the generally recommended way to install Puppies. When so installed they can be configured so that the data files created by applications are directory written to your storage media while everything else --such as the junk you unknowingly pick up while surfing-- exists only in RAM and is cleared when you reboot/shutdown. This and other unique aspects of Frugal Puppies make them particularly safe against malware infestations. Current versions of openssl can be installed in any Puppy which is less than 5 years old, maybe older. Current versions of Chrome and Clones are configured to run as Spot -- a limited user without access beyond its own folder. You can copy files from that folder, but anything which remains in it, in a frugal install with Automatic Save Removed, will be deleted on reboot/shutdown. I think firefox (and clones) can also be configured to run as Spot, but haven't bothered to test.

As far as I know, meltdown is only a threat to 64-bit systems. I may be wrong, but as far I know the only 32-bit Puppy whose kernel has been patched against it is BionicPup 18.05. There are, however, several kernel packages available including patches; and with Puppies changing kernels is a simple procedure. Most of those kernel packages are 64-bit (you can use a 64-bit Kernel with a 32-bit operating system) but all kernels beyond 4.1 may degrade performance given your computer's specs. Suggest you see how well BionicPup works on your computer before sacrificing performance to avoid a theoretical threat.

By the way, once you've downloaded an ISO and installed or mounted it (just Right-click) you can copy its vmlinuz, zdrv_name_and_number.sfs, and some Puppies include a fdrv_name_and_number.sfs, to another location. That's all a kernel package consists of. They can then be used with a different recent (4 years +/-) target Puppy, substituting them for the vmlinuz, zdrv.sfs and fdrv.sfs of the target Puppy once the names of the later two files are edited to the name and number of the target Puppy.

So if BionicPup's kernel doesn't present a problem, but you like the look-and-feel of XYZ Puppy better, or XYZ Puppy offers a necessary application which BionicPup lacks, you can mix-and-match.

You might also take a look at this post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=989775#989775 Slacko 5.7.1 is a solid "work-horse", lighter on resources. Many usable pets and SFSes and Slackware 14.0 repos and applications (some new) are available. AFAIK, only current versions of Chrome & clones are NOT available.

mikesLr
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nbah07

Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2018, 22:34    Post subject: sorry previous intromission
Subject description: back in the day...
 

Musher0, with uppercase M, indeed,
you've just got a new follower
No, I am neither a dog or stalker.
MikesLr, good fellow, set bright over stubbornness as well.
Hope I can deal with any upcoming architecture issue.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12816
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2018, 00:21    Post subject:  

Thanks, nbah07.
Welcome aboard!

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Fidèle elle commença, ainsi elle restera. (Prov. canadien) /
Faithful she began, so will she stay. (Canadian prov.)
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1025
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 06 May 2018, 14:19    Post subject:  

PC Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name:

Motherboard Vendor: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name: 0864h

BIOS Vendor: Hewlett-Packard
Version: 786B1 v1.14
Release Date: 07/11/2003

Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz
Max Speed: 3200 MHz
Current Speed of Core 0:2600 MHz

Frequency governor : performance
Freq. scaling driver : p4-clockmod

Sensor status is not available, or required kernel drivers are not loaded.

Personal Storage: RAM Disk
Size Used Free Use%
3.8G 594M 3.2G 16%

Memory Allocation:
Total RAM: 992 MB
Used RAM: 711 MB
Free RAM: 281 MB
Buffers: 48 MB
Cached: 416 MB
Total Swap: 6159 MB
Free Swap: 5700 MB

Actual Used RAM: 247 MB Used - (buffers + cached)
Actual Free RAM: 745 MB Free + (buffers + cached)
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 1025
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 06 May 2018, 23:28    Post subject:  

And this extra post only tell that this XenialPup does not save to a multisession CD, so I now run Lucid again.
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paulh177


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 918
Location: ST862228

PostPosted: Sat 12 May 2018, 18:19    Post subject: Suspend to RAM  

So, I finally got a wrinkle smoothed out that was stopping me swinging over to Xenial from Precise - suspend to ram.

I've used acpitool for years to manage suspending, but I just couldn't make it work with Xenial, whatever combination of acpi options I plugged into the boot parameters (which had worked for older pups on my 2008 Acer AspireOne AOA150, 1GB, Atom N270)

The problem was that when I ran acpitool -s, the machine would power down, but immediately power up again. Frustrating.

The solution lay with the file /proc/acpi/wakeup.

You can't create or delete files in /proc without writing a module for the kernel, but you can view and manipulate them.

On my freshly booted (frugal) Xenial, /proc/acpi/wakeup looks like this:
Code:

Device  S-state   Status   Sysfs node
P32         S4    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1e.0
UHC1      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.0
UHC2      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.1
UHC3      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.2
UHC4      S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.3
ECHI        S3    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1d.7
EXP1       S4    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1c.0
EXP2       S4    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1c.1
EXP3       S4    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1c.2
EXP4       S4    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1c.3
AZAL       S0    *enabled   pci:0000:00:1b.0
MODM     S0    *disabled


Where S-state = S3, we have to reset *enabled to *disabled.

Adding the following lines to /etc/profile or /etc/profile.local sorts this out:

Code:

echo "UHC1  S3  *disabled" > /proc/acpi/wakeup
echo "UHC2  S3  *disabled" > /proc/acpi/wakeup
echo "UHC3  S3  *disabled" > /proc/acpi/wakeup
echo "UHC4  S3  *disabled" > /proc/acpi/wakeup
echo "ECHI   S3  *disabled" > /proc/acpi/wakeup


(Someone else will have to explain why tf these devices automagically wake up a laptop when you don't want them to, 'cause I don't have a clue ...)

One day I'll get round to seeing if I can get the damn thing to hibernate to disk.

hth someone.
Smile
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glene77is


Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 136
Location: Memphis, TN, USA

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2018, 07:19    Post subject:
Subject description: Re: Cures poor performance from XenialPup
 

Reply is related to the slowdown during boot,
traced to "sfs_load" and "fixmenus".

Here, we run several 1999 to 2001 M$-XP computers.
Currently, we run a Hewlitt-Packard, 3GHz clock, 1GB Ram.
We setup the HP system, original M$XP MBR to boot into grldr, menu.lst.
This is a multi-boot method, allowing back-booting into M$XP .
(1) HP : Normally, we run the Puppy Xenial 7.08 system,
totally on Flash Drives, Frugal Install.
There is a Slow-Down during boot. Traced and measured 20 seconds total.
(2) HP : There is a Frugal install on a Hard-Drive, ext 2 partition.
When the Hard-Drive system is booted, it run much like the FlashDrive system.
There is a Slow-Down during boot. Traced and measured 20 seconds total.

(3) When we run the same Xenialpup 7.08 on a Dell LapTop, Lattitude D630,
Dual-Core, with 2 GB Ram,
with the same Xenialpup OS frugally installed on HardDrive :
there is a Slow-Down during boot. Traced and measured 30 seconds total.

Attached are my automated traces for the "sfs_load" and the "fixmenus"
which show the processes which are involved in the "lingering boot" .

Reply is related to the slowdown during boot,
traced to "sfs_load" and "fixmenus".

I will post this whole reply to my website
www.GeoCities.WS/glene77is

Hope this helps. Glen Ellis
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12816
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 21 May 2018, 22:27    Post subject:  

Hi Glen.

Thanks for your report.

A couple of remarks if I may:

In my mind, it is obvious that loading two large sfs' such as Libre Office
and Chrome on oldish hardware -- at boot-up, along with the rest of the Pup
-- is likely to take a bit of time. Not that you should not, but please realize
your hardware is probably giving its maximum.

We should be glad that this old horse can load ~ 1 Gb of material at all in
30-40 seconds! Smile (And please give it all the oats it wants!) Smile

Have you tried unpacking those large packages into the pupsave file (make
it big enough, eh?), and retesting the boot time?

~~~~~~~~~

My second remark concerns the fixmenus utility: I am not surprised.

if you do not force me, I tend NOT to run my xenial-7.0.6 with jwm. I try to
use a window manager that does NOT rely on fixmenus, e.g.
-- icewm (with my new menu-construction script),
-- wmx (there are 7-8 color themes to choose from),
-- echinus (almost 50 color themes),
-- waimea (reasonable number of very adaptable native themes, plus some
blackbox themes are available),
-- even aewm, if you like adventure!

In other words, use a WM that does not use the fixmenus utility and the
other half of your slowness problem is solved. (Mind you, with old hw like
this, you will never get Formula One-type performance.)

I have to dig up the thread, but fixmenus was proven inefficient many years
ago, when forum member technosaurus produced an altermative to it. My
menu-construction scripts for all of the above alternative WM's are all based
/ derived on his work (and on work by former member aragon). Fixmenus
has been improved a bit through the years, but it is still a slow-poke.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Fidèle elle commença, ainsi elle restera. (Prov. canadien) /
Faithful she began, so will she stay. (Canadian prov.)
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glene77is


Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 136
Location: Memphis, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 22 May 2018, 16:03    Post subject:  

musher0
Thanks for the experienced comments.
Time is not so bad, in my experience.
I turn it on, go grab a cup of tea, and Linux is ready.

Savefile is a Directory. May try the unpack method.
Browser is German "IRON" v.56. (fork from Google Chrome) ,
unless a web site complains ( requesting FireFox or Chrome ).

Overall, running on 1G Ram, and totally on flash drives
on old vintage equipment ... this runs OK.
Fits with an old geeky engineer's view of life.

I compare the pro and con .
(1) (a) Flash Drives are totally portable to other computers of this vintage.
(1) (b) This puppy method , with daily savefile archive ,
offers great security.

(2) (a) I don't want to buy a new M$ system, not on my budget,
(2) (b) I don't want learn how to make it perform, not on my time.
(2) (c) That would be fun, but after five decades,
ever since building up systems from the Apple II era,
I just want to stay away from M$ , and tinker with Linux.

(3) Mostly my interest is Linear I.C. Design for Amateur Radio
with browse access into PartSIM ( SPICE simulator ) !.

Have read lots of good comments on this forum.
Good Luck, young man !

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