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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
TazPuppy Beta 5
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1698
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 00:34    Post subject:  

Pup-Sys Info 2.8 will scan for meltdowwn/spectre.

Regards
8Geee

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Linux user #498913

Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
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rg66


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada / Entebbe, Uganda Africa!?!

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 01:01    Post subject:  

Xfce-4.12.x running but it's still a bit buggy.
xfce-4.12.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   82.17 KB
 Viewed   693 Time(s)

xfce-4.12.jpg


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X-slacko-5b1 - X-tahr-2.0 - X-precise-2.4
X-series repo
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 962
Location: PH

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 01:26    Post subject:  

@rg66 does xfce compatible with gvfs-udisks-monitor? I hope there will be sfs version of xfce for tazpup

@festus thanks for the link
@8Geee thanks for the info it is really helpful
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rg66


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 1160
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada / Entebbe, Uganda Africa!?!

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 10:10    Post subject:  

mistfire wrote:
@rg66 does xfce compatible with gvfs-udisks-monitor? I hope there will be sfs version of xfce for tazpup


It seems to be as the drives are showing in thunar, although I haven't tried a falsh drive yet.

There might be an SFS or remaster down the road or nothing, we'll see how it goes.

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X-slacko-5b1 - X-tahr-2.0 - X-precise-2.4
X-series repo
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 5160
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 19:57    Post subject:  

I made a small improvement in my timer / alarm program ...
Available:
no dependencies

ptmtimer-2.5.tazpkg
Size: 11k
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pFmzYujOzbGWr68HZSjX-NDaU7exRsmh
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 962
Location: PH

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 01:20    Post subject:  

Nice @don. I will include that on tazpup
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 04:52    Post subject: Tazpup is a Puppy !  

Tazpup is a Puppy ! so dowloaded this morning and opened in new directory beside other Puppies. a Grub4Dos then reboot, and tazPup ready.. However it's really for war period, if ever nothing else ... If all my Puppies had a virus at same time.. Nevertheless, it runs ! 80MB is so tiny, i keep it.
I did not translate the topic, i just did as usual, nothing to study.. Congratulations Mistfire ! Smile
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 954
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 21:08    Post subject:  

Gave tazpup a quick run and booed fine. I see you've included extra firmware to default Slitaz since it found WiFi right away. With default slitaz I'd have to install extra iwlwifi for this HP elite book 2530p laptop but that not needed with tazpup. The end result isnt really a Puppy of course, it's Slitaz we should thank for the underlying distribution but tazpup brings advantages of some Puppy boot and save mechanisms. I think keeping development of your buildkit package is longterm more important than whatever the current tazpup iso is. Slitaz has become a rolling release model now so for tazpup to remain relevant it needs to be able to keep up with slitaz or better to just use plain slitaz in the end IMO.

I'm also taking a close look at Fred's porteus-boot style tazdog alternative. The end result is much the same - you get slitaz but with the potential advantages of dog boot, save and RAM usage and persistence mechanisms. But some work needs added to tazdog as yet to get changes only saving on exit (which is what I particularly like about porteus boot dogs). Again, ability to keep up with slitaz rolling releases easily is the main importance or it will just be a pup/dog booting toy that provides an out-of-date version of slitaz. So I hope you develop your buildkit version flexibly mistfire.

A further alternative would be an actual Puppy, where woof-CE was modified to simply build a Puppy from current Slitaz repository offerings. That would be a puppy but not be simply frontend bootstrap of slitaz proper, which is what both tazpup and tazdog do now. Depends if you like the distribution developed by slitaz team (I do) or if you want a conventional puppy but built with slitaz packages.

wiak
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 954
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 21:39    Post subject:  

As far as adding puppy utils onto the underlying slitaz distribution is concerned, personally I think that should be an entirely separate add-on (perhaps an sfs). Otherwise you are messing up the possibility of keeping tazpup up-to-date with rollong-release slitaz. The end running result is Slitaz after all, not Puppy so really a shame to become an old slitaz simply supplemented with puppy utils. An add-on puppy-utils sfs could be used in any slitaz; be it tazpup or tazdog or pristine slitaz (once the sfs suitably package converted). I understand the temptation to make tazpup look more like puppy on first boot but over-doing that will definitely limit the projects flexibility IMO even if the result will temporarily appeal to usual Puppy users. What really would be the point of running an older slitaz via puppy mechanisms? And continually having to make new tazpup full of puppy utils a real waste of effort if trying to keep up with the new rolling release slitaz itself surely? Anyway, just my opinion if tazpup is to have longterm point compared to just using standard rolling-release slitaz. Buildkit is promising answer but with puppy-theming add-on extra.

Actually, early debiandog developments made the same mistake. For flexibility should always have been a buildkit/script for building dog from official Debian/Ubuntu distros. That finally came with mklive-stretch but so much work could have been done via that approach earlier; instead, the developers were seduced by the initial temptation to make things as puppy-like as possible rather than as making puppy-fying no more than a bolt-on extra. I guess they felt pressurised with the puppylookalike situation to justify the projects inclusion on murga forum - tazpup does not have that justification issue since it inherently uses puppy boot/save mechanisms. That's all that's important IMO about it - puppy apps and utils and lookalike effects should be kept as a bolt-on extra.

wiak
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 962
Location: PH

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 23:44    Post subject:  

Here is the alpha 6 release

* Linux 4.16 kernel for meltdown and spectre mitigation (thanks to smokey01)
* Mime problem fixed
* Custom Puppy Menu is now used (based from peebee's lxpup menu). This will allow to show menu entries for converted packages including puppy.
* Mounted disk image manager now working
* Full screen terminal when saving session

Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvDuwDOoRHFs6NB-SRVX_OaQ_a0Pv_8M/view

Tazpup build kit (readme is now included): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cDkk_xpp--MqMBiaNrldPnVt5uW9TGli/view?usp=sharing
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 962
Location: PH

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 00:57    Post subject:  

@wiak here is my insight. I want to like to combine at the best of both distro. So thats why Puppy works on the backend (layering, hardware, and persistence) while slitaz works on top for general purpose. Luckily slitaz offers package conversion so that will be no problem. Puppy applications included in tazpup are bare minimum only the core system tool (for installation and persistence). And the rest was slitaz.

The build kit was extremely flexible as possible. As you notice only puppy core apps, essential files, and missing components for core puppy was included in the build kit.
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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 954
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 01:53    Post subject:  

mistfire wrote:

The build kit was extremely flexible as possible. As you notice only puppy core apps, essential files, and missing components for core puppy was included in the build kit.


That's great, mistfire, glad you've made it that way. I've still to try the build kit. I'm kind of out of action at the moment but still reading threads I'm specially interested in.

wiak
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Marv


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 1083
Location: SW Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 08:39    Post subject:  

alpha 6 up and running on my sandy bridge i5 laptop. Savefile behavior remains the same for me, that is any modifications or additions prior to first save creation and reboot are preserved, nothing saved on subsequent reboots. I'm time limited right now as it's planting season but I've tried several things with snapmergepuppy and even resurrected a very simple usbsave I modified for alphaOS but no sucess so far. Two notes on alpha 6: I don't see wifi setup in the new menu, looked several times? The vulnerability report with the alpha 6 stock 4.16.8 kernel on the i5 is below. As with all 32 bit kernels to date, it shows vulnerability to meltdown. For full mitigation you have to go to a 64b kernel compiled with gcc 7.30 or later. Looking at the kernel developers discussions that is because the 32 bit doesn't support PTI. That said, the vulnerability in 32 bit kernels is limited to memory below 1 Gb and there 'may' be no vulnerability running 32b binaries on 32b kernel. Murky waters. I run 64 bit kernels on any pup I use for banking/financial stuff but still use the 32 bit on 'internal' pups.
Code:
bash-4.3# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
Vulnerable
Mitigation: __user pointer sanitization
Vulnerable: Minimal generic ASM retpoline

for comparison, peebees 4.9.96, also 32bit but compiled under retropoline aware gcc 7.30. Note the spectre v2 change.
Code:
meltdown   : Vulnerable
spectre_v1   : Mitigation   : __user pointer sanitization
spectre_v2   : Mitigation   : Full generic retpoline


I'll continue slowly picking away at the persistence thing.

Cheers,

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Pups currently in kennel Very Happy LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64, and LxPupBB for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS. Now tazpup for puzzles Smile
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mistfire

Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 962
Location: PH

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 23:16    Post subject:  

@Marv does the savefile able to find and loaded? the problem might lies in the init script of the initrd I will improve the logging in order to find that problem on savefile. you can use other initrd if puppy if you want. Just patch the DISTRO_SPECS file of the other pup with DISTRO_SPECS file of tazpup at rebuild the initrd.


I made some hack in tazinst of slitaz in order to full install of tazpup using Slitaz Installer.
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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2018, 03:51    Post subject: Puppy is able to do easier what Slitaz can offer..  

the best of two distros.. Mistfire, IMO, if you install Puppy Linux, you won't need Slitaz any more. Puppy is able to do easier what Slitaz can offer..
Tiny size ? a Puppy including only apps provided by Slitaz would be less than 80MB..
I am sure that you, mistfire, are aware of that.. Slim x-Slacko gave you a perfect knowledge to trim the fat.. Exclamation
It's only brain-storming ? That is ok, no problem about that.. To marry Puppy Linux with lot of different linux is the main duty of our distro packagers, nowadays..
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