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Ananda98


Joined: 03 Jul 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Bali, Indonesia

PostPosted: Tue 20 Mar 2018, 11:32    Post subject: Re: Wary Where Are You?
Subject description: Talking about Wary Puppy.
 

fishmanluvslinux wrote:
I am wondering whatever happened to Wary Puppy? I was able to use it until 2015 then it just went caputz and the updates stopped. I have 2 machines that thrived on Wary and the newer ones are just not booting up and error out on them. These machines are good work horses for my needs,especially when I am traveling. I really love Puppy Linux it is just that I found a guide that sort is correct about which one to use so I just try them until one works. With only 8 Mb. of video memory it is hard to find one that will work since Wary's demise. Any suggestions with links would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys for all of your hard work and time.


In my opinion, try to use Slacko Puppy. I was running it on Pentium 4 machine, with 256 mb of RAM. But, it run slowly.

I think, you still can running the old version of Puppy today. Mine running Puppy 4.3.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4022
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Tue 20 Mar 2018, 17:27    Post subject: Re: Wary Where Are You?
Subject description: Talking about Wary Puppy.
 

fishmanluvslinux wrote:
I am wondering whatever happened to Wary Puppy? I was able to use it until 2015 then it just went caputz and the updates stopped. I have 2 machines that thrived on Wary and the newer ones are just not booting up and error out on them. These machines are good work horses for my needs,especially when I am traveling. I really love Puppy Linux it is just that I found a guide that sort is correct about which one to use so I just try them until one works. With only 8 Mb. of video memory it is hard to find one that will work since Wary's demise. Any suggestions with links would be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys for all of your hard work and time.


@ fishmanluvslinux:-

My old Dell lappie (which seems to be developing its own 'niche' personality on these forums (even its own 'fan' club!), due to the sheer amount of upgrading and personalizing it's received since I've been using Puppy, not to mention the number of 'guest appearances' it's put in since I joined these forums) also has a maximum of 8 MB 'shared' graphics memory. It was 'born' in 2002 with a 2.2 GHz Celeron and 128 MB RAM.....and a teensy 20 GB HDD. Nowadays it sports a 2.6 GHz 'proper' P4, 1.5 GB RAM, and a 64 GB SSD. Sadly, however, I'm stuck with those awful Intel graphics.

However....

The old girl currently triple-boots with Slacko 5.7.0, the 'updated' Lucid 5.2.8.7, and (this may surprise you) Xenialpup.....although this is the slightly older 'beta' version, 7.0.8.1. It'll never be particularly fast with that hardware; mikeslr will back me up that modern browsers are some of the most RAM- and hardware-intensive apps you'll run with your average PC. But; it does run....and does so surprisingly well. She'll even let me do undemanding video edits with Openshot.... Very Happy

So even a 2002 lappie with only 8 MB shared video RAM will run all kinds of Pups quite happily. You do need to be prepared to dive in and get your hands a bit grubby, but that (to me) is all part of the fun of using Pup.


Mike. Wink

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Last edited by Mike Walsh on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 18:32; edited 3 times in total
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4022
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Tue 20 Mar 2018, 18:03    Post subject:  

@spiritwild:-

spiritwild wrote:
As far as public forums go, you can't read emotion very well. that's a dicipline in itself. I will admit, there are a few that can be taken wrong by how they convey there message. Except Mike walsh and musher0. I'm mostly an observer and learner but those two stand out as the most friendly people I've ever....read. LOL. Semme, if he is still around., has my respect for sheer wealth of knowledge packaged in a seemingly first glance textual arrogance.


Huh! While I've never thought of myself as any kind of a teacher, musher0 and myself, you'll find, that's just how we are.

Most of my own teachers were distinctly average , as far as imparting information went. One, however (a maths teacher, as I recall), went out of his way to help me understand long multiplication and division, and re-kindled an interest in maths which at this point was rapidly disappearing..!

The kind of teacher who made the subject interesting, easy-to-understand, and made you want to learn more. That's a rare gift.

Since I've passed from the realms of 'newbiehood'(!) to passing on info and instruction in my own turn, I suppose I've based my own 'delivery' on that teacher. I enjoy using Puppy myself; I want to pass on that obvious 'enjoyment' to others, I guess.

It's infectious!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

(Semme, BTW, is certainly still around. Currently, he's passing himself off as 'matchpoint'.

Pelo's pretending to be 'hamadoudou'.

Don't know WHAT'S going on with them two..!)
Rolling Eyes


Mike. Wink

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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2018, 23:03    Post subject: Puppy file system
Subject description: working with files, moving, copying, deleting, etc..
 

As good as Puppy Linux is I continue to be astounded that there is no tutorial, starting from scratch, which clearly explains how files are organised or how to work with them. Almost every 'explanation' jumps into the middle and proceeds as if newcomers already know the basic stuff when they don't.

Matter of fact you could say that about almost every aspect of Linux. If I want basic information about how Puppy is structured I go to the general internet to get it, because having to wade through thousands of posts in Puppy forums to get basic info is pathetic.

If I'm wrong about this and there are wonderful tutorials for those new to Puppy Linux then please show me where they are hidden and I'll take back everything I've written.

Even the help file on the Puppy desktop does not have any topic about working with files, installing files etc. If you already know the basics then you'll say "Yes it's all there just look under xyz" - sure WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW - but for beginners it's a hopeless mess.

I wonder how many people who would like to be Puppy Linux users and, failing to find any information which helps them to be that, just turn away?

I would like to be a Puppy user I think it's a great option, but I can live without it when NOTHING is made easy for me to be so.
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Galbi


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1047
Location: Bs.As. - Argentina.

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 08:52    Post subject:  

@bushrat, I can understand your anger and frustration, it happened to me too.

The thing is that Puppy uses the ROX file manager because it is very lightweight but has it own way of working, which it's different from what one may be accustomed, not good - not bad, simply different...

So, to work with files, always open TWO rox instances, which they will be Origin/Destiny.

Once you have each window in the folder you want, drag and drop the file/s from Origin to Destiny and a pop-up menu will appear, choose there what you want to do.

Another tip is to put the mouse pointer over a file and click the right button.

Please, practice a little and quickly you'll get it, and like it (I hope Smile )

Saludos.

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 09:55    Post subject: Puppy Book (Documentation)
Subject description: includes working with Rox filer filemanager
 

bushrat wrote:
As good as Puppy Linux is I continue to be astounded that there is no tutorial, starting from scratch, which clearly explains how files are organised or how to work with them. Almost every 'explanation' jumps into the middle and proceeds as if newcomers already know the basic stuff when they don't.


In fact there is a 'book', which though written for an old version of Puppy (4.3.1) explains most of what is typical Puppy today as well:

http://www.smokey01.com/software/help/The%20Puppy%20Linux%20Book.pdf

Page 67 explains the use of ROX filemanager.

wiak

Last edited by wiak on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 20:04; edited 1 time in total
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2523
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2018, 14:49    Post subject: Roxset - Open Two Rox Windows -- other basic Info
Subject description: Puppy's Structure
 

Thanks wiak for re-discovering Puppy Linux Book which, as you noted, provides a basic but comprehensive guide to working with Puppy Linux. As you also noted, although written for Puppy as it was 6+ years ago, most of its information remains valid even for the current litter of Puppies.

In order to make it easier for newbies (and others) to find, perhaps you could re-title you post something like "Puppy Book (Documentation)".

It's discussion about rox as file-manager notes that there is often a need to open two rox-windows. Recognizing this need, seaside later published a pet named roxset, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=334258#334258 that would simultaneously open two rox windows side-by-side. Under some newer Puppies, they may no longer be side-by-side. Each window, however, can be individually moved and resized so, if nothing else, it saves you the bother of having to open rox twice.

A couple of years ago gcmartin and I tried to provide a basic understanding of the structure of folders and files in both Full and Frugal installs, and (for me, at least) a layman's understanding how Puppies functioned. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=860556#860556. A screenshot of the files copied to the media in a Frugal Install which (my sometime faulty recollections thought) accompanied gcmartin's original post is not there. Hopefully, the attached screenshot named "Frugal Install", will suffice.

That screenshot shows all the files which are in the Tahrpup ISO, and one which isn't. The file named tahrsave-xxx.xfs [the first 3 x's being user optional, the x before fs reflecting user's choice of Linux file-format] was not included in the ISO. It was created when, at shutdown/reboot, the user chooses to create a SaveFile. If I had chosen instead to create a SaveFolder, there would have been, instead, a folder named tahrsave-xxx.

Not all the files/folders in the screenshot are necessary for a Frugal install. If the computer already had a boot loader, only the following files would have been needed to boot this Frugal Tahrpup from a folder: initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.6.sfs and zdrv_tahr_6.0.6.sfs. The efi.img would only be necessary if the computer employed the UEFI boot mechanism. Tahrpup placed firmware in the zdrv.sfs. Other Puppies might place them in an fdrz.sfs. And other Puppies might offer an optional adrv.sfs or other optional sfses. See my post on the above cited thread.

One of the problems in migrating to Puppy Linux from Windows or even another Linux Distro is obtaining an understanding of how these systems are organized: where files are located. That problem is compounded by the fact that for the casual user of Windows, the actual location of files has been obscured. Using it GUI, the user thinks his documents and settings are in a "place" named "Documents and Settings". The fact, however, is that the observable Menu entries, desktop icons and other entrances to Documents and Settings are only Short-cuts to locations in C: Drive. All PC systems, Windows, Linux, the Mac, what-have-you, even Puppy Linux organize files employing more or less the same system of organization developed for Unix which was run from shared MainFrames. That organization is pretty much the same as the one shown in the attachment named "Customary Linux Structure".

Puppy Linux Structure is slightly different. See attached PuppyLinuxStructure. Peripheral hardware (such as CD-players) and software which can be used but is not included within the operating system (such as SFSes) have to be connected to the operating system in some way. It's either done thru Media or mnt Folders or both. Puppy only uses mnt. But the most important difference is the absence of a Home Folder.

But first a point of clarification. You'll notice that in Customary-Linux Structure the term "root" appears twice, once at the top with the symbol "/" and once as a folder. Only the "/" appears on PuppyLinux Structure. This root represents the highest (top) location of a device such as a hard-drive. The folder "root", whose symbol is "~" represents the location in which the setting/configurations made by the system's administrator are stored.

Unlike almost all other Linux Distros and even Windows, Puppy Linux is not designed as a Multi-User system. On a Multi-User system, the settings and configuration of applications of one user may differ from that of another and the work-files of one user may not only be different from that of another but each user may not want any other user to have access to them. You may recall from Windows that you can create different Users, and that if you do each user will have his or her own Documents and Settings "Folder". On Linux operating systems, except Puppy, each user would have his or her own "Home" folder serving the same purpose. In Puppy Linux the User is the Administrator who has the right to access anything, install anything, and change anything. Hence, there is no reason to have a Home Folder as the "root ~" folder is sufficient. It looks like the attached once the "hidden" files within it are displayed. [To display hidden files, Left-click rox's EYE. Many of the hidden files are the configurations and settings of the applications on the system. AFAIK, files and folders are hidden to reduce the possibility that an unsophisticated user would accidentally delete them]. In other words, in Puppy Linux, the root folder is more-or-less functionally equivalent to the Documents and Settings Folder in Windows and is often referred to the Linux term Home Folder or just Home.

And that creates another point of confusion: In Puppy Linux "Home" can have two meanings. The above is one. On rare occasions a writer may only just use the term "Home" when what was intended was Puppy's "Home Drive/Partition": Drive if it is not partitioned, Partition if it is. Although the user of Puppy has full access to any drive or storage media connected to the computer, only the Puppy's Home Drive/Partition is automatically mounted --opened/available for use-- on bootup.

mikesLr
Puppy's root (Home Folder).png
Description  Puppy's root ~ folder with hidden files displayed
png

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wiak

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 934
Location: not Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2018, 17:26    Post subject:  

Very informative Puppy Linux related tutorial-style diagrams mikesLr.

Yes it's not easy to explain the difference between $HOME, /home (or /home/ if you want to explicitly note that it is a directory), and /mnt/home to someone coming from Windoze or /root versus / (being root of the file-structure) for that matter. Also that pretty much correct but sometimes misleading mantra that everything in Linux is a file, even a directory.

I've noted some old but generally still applicable links about opening two Rox windows side by side, as well as info on Rox right-click action setups here (in answer to something else about right-click setup apps...):

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=990139#990139

wiak
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april


Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1231
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2018, 19:09    Post subject: Re: Puppy file system
Subject description: working with files, moving, copying, deleting, etc..
 

bushrat wrote:
As good as Puppy Linux is I continue to be astounded that there is no tutorial, starting from scratch, which clearly explains how files are organised or how to work with them. Almost every 'explanation' jumps into the middle and proceeds as if newcomers already know the basic stuff when they don't.

Matter of fact you could say that about almost every aspect of Linux. If I want basic information about how Puppy is structured I go to the general internet to get it, because having to wade through thousands of posts in Puppy forums to get basic info is pathetic.

If I'm wrong about this and there are wonderful tutorials for those new to Puppy Linux then please show me where they are hidden and I'll take back everything I've written.

Even the help file on the Puppy desktop does not have any topic about working with files, installing files etc. If you already know the basics then you'll say "Yes it's all there just look under xyz" - sure WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW - but for beginners it's a hopeless mess.

I wonder how many people who would like to be Puppy Linux users and, failing to find any information which helps them to be that, just turn away?

I would like to be a Puppy user I think it's a great option, but I can live without it when NOTHING is made easy for me to be so.


Bit of a pointless post . more of a rave !

First Lesson in Linux --Learn to find what you want yourself.

If you want it handed to you then use microsoft and be lead by the nose.
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OvrMaHd


Joined: 10 Nov 2017
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2018, 17:15    Post subject:  

Thanks Wiak and Mikeslr, for your well-said posts. Very Happy
Anyone having microsoft-obsolescence-anxiety and stumbling
accross this forum should be welcomeded to read these post comments.

Ovr
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3160
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2018, 07:09    Post subject:  

Quote:
First Lesson in Linux --Learn to find what you want yourself.


Which is precisely why it will never be a successful desktop OS.

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olddog

Joined: 21 Dec 2016
Posts: 11
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2018, 07:53    Post subject:  

In fairness, the sort of attitude shown by April is rare.

The fact is that it is extremely difficult for a new user to find information. The search will often yield results of hundreds of pages, and some threads (like this one), are so long that a normal person has no hope of reading them all if he has a life away from computers.

Luckily, many experienced Puppy users recognise this, and give generously of their time to help people.

Getting to the point of the thread, I am most impressed by the Puppy Package Manager which makes installing programs very easy. It's a major step forward.

Sadly, I have found printer installation to be more of a problem. I am still struggling to get my printer to print.

Ease of use and availability of good software are the two most important things for me, and I suspect for many others. Too often Linux offers a wide choice of rather second rate software. Quantity rather than quality. Now that I have Libreoffice installed I expect to make Puppy my OS of choice, but there are a number of other applications that I have yet to find good examples of. It's a steep learning curve, and a long one!

Burn_IT wrote:
[quote by April]First Lesson in Linux --Learn to find what you want yourself.

Which is precisely why it will never be a successful desktop OS.[/quote]
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12274
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2018, 10:59    Post subject:  

olddog wrote:
Sadly, I have found printer installation to be more of a problem. I am still struggling to get my printer to print.

People can't help you if you won't identify the printer.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3160
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2018, 11:19    Post subject:  

I will also say that getting printers to work properly in Linux is actually one of the more difficult things - even for seasoned users.
Partly this is because many printer manufacturers don't provide the Linux drivers for their hardware as freely as they do the Windows divers.
Often you have to fiddle with the drivers for similar printers and even then may be stuck looking for changes to default settings since the control programs are written for Windows.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12274
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun 2018, 11:32    Post subject:  

Burn_IT wrote:
Partly this is because many printer manufacturers don't provide the Linux drivers for their hardware as freely as they do the Windows divers.

The five major printer vendors all provide Linux drivers.

In many cases, the Linux setup will be simpler because you won't be forced into installing all the extra crap that comes with the Windows driver.
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