Old Laptop - Black Screen [SOLVED]

Using applications, configuring, problems
Post Reply
Message
Author
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#21 Post by jp734 »

Ahh, understood. So radeon should work on all cards then unless, the card is really really old

I ask my friend where he got the laptop and come to find out they bought it from his wife's work where they replaced components including video card. Explains why it had ATI X300 when the manual we downloaded from dell, says it should have had nvidia quadro fx 1500 or 2500. Honestly, not familiar with those graphic cards so not sure which one is better.

He asked me if it's worth upgrading so after some research, he still can upgrade the cpu from 2.0 to 2.33 GHz, ram from 1gb to 4gb and replace video card. So we looked on ebay and found cpu and ram from 8 dollars each and nvidia video from $27. So I have a feeling I haven't seen the last of that laptop.....yaaay. Tried to convince him to buy a new one but it's tough when you know the person is having a hard time trying to make ends meet and hard to argue with $40 upgrade. It's still a quick laptop considering how old it is and could boost more speed if he replace HD with SSD.

Hope these nvidia graphics will not give me same issues if ever he decides.Are you all up to more challenge if he decides to....helping me that is...LOL :D
Top
User avatar
Mike Walsh
Posts: 6351
Joined: Sat 28 Jun 2014, 12:42
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

#22 Post by Mike Walsh »

Hm. That's interesting.

The graphics chip in my old Compaq desktop (which is getting on for 15 yrs old now) is, according to

Code: Select all

lspci -k
.....using the 'radeon' driver..! (I'm in Slacko 560 ATM.)

Code: Select all

01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RS480 [Radeon Xpress 200G Series]
	Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. Device 7141
	Kernel driver in use: radeon
So according to what I've just read, which one should it use? This one has both ATI and Radeon in the name..... I seriously doubt it's quite as 'cut-and-dried' as all that, y'know. :lol:

Unless this card was manufactured at the time when they were changing the names over. Still a good long while ago, hmm?


Mike. :wink:
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#23 Post by bigpup »

So radeon should work on all cards then unless, the card is really really old
Yes and No.
With manufactures graphic drivers, it is all about what hardware the driver was designed to work on.

All drivers are made for a specific series of hardware.
Example:
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/linux

Note:
Do not directly try using a driver from this web site.
Drivers have to be compiled for the specific Puppy and Linux kernel being used.
I am not sure there is a driver posted for your hardware, there.

The Radeon driver, that comes in Puppy, is actually a generic driver in the Linux kernel.
It will generally work on any AMD ATI/Radeon hardware, but not give full support for all features, like a specific driver will.
As you have already seen, that kernel radeon driver is expecting to see newer hardware that supports all the new bells and whistles.
Why you had to turn off KMS support.

To be honest, AMD does not really seem to care about supporting very old hardware.

If you go with a Nvidia graphics hardware.
There is better driver support for older hardware.
Tahrpup 6.0.5 Quickpet>Drivers has drivers for a lot of Nvidia hardware.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#24 Post by bigpup »

So radeon should work on all cards then unless, the card is really really old
Yes and No.
With manufactures graphic drivers, it is all about what hardware the driver was designed to work on.

All drivers are made for a specific series of hardware.
Example:
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/linux
Note:
Do not directly try using a driver from this web site.
Drivers have to be compiled for the specific Puppy and Linux kernel being used.
I am not sure there is a driver posted for your hardware, there.

The Radeon driver, that comes in Puppy, is actually a generic driver in the Linux kernel.
It will generally work on any AMD ATI/Radeon hardware, but not give full support for all features, like a specific driver will.
As you have already seen, that kernel radeon driver is expecting to see newer hardware that supports all the new bells and whistles.
Why you had to turn off KMS support.

To be honest, AMD does not really seem to care about supporting very old hardware.

If you go with a Nvidia graphics hardware.
There is better driver support for older hardware.
Tahrpup 6.0.5 Quickpet>Drivers has drivers for a lot of Nvidia hardware.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#25 Post by bigpup »

This one has both ATI and Radeon in the name.....
The brand was previously only known as "ATI Radeon" until August 2010, when it was renamed to increase AMD's brand awareness on a global scale.[2] Products up to and including the HD 5000 series are branded as ATI Radeon, while the HD 6000 series and beyond use the new AMD Radeon branding.
On September 11, 2015, AMD's GPU business was split into a separate unit known as Radeon Technologies Group

So, the company name kept changing, but the hardware was always Radeon.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#26 Post by jp734 »

Well, I'm back and the laptop is back on my desk and of course I've been messing around with it and still with no success. Then, for the first time, I went in to bios setting and found one thing that might be the issue.

On video setting, there is an option to expand the screen. By default it is enabled so I disabled it to test. I booted puppy and it gave me 2 inch black border on both sides and an inch on top and bottom. I'm thinking that this is the 1024x768 res puppy is seeing and not recognizing the extra space.

Dell user manual says the size of display is 383 by 245 mm (1440x900). I set the "screen expand" option back in bios setting, set the displaysize option on xorg.conf to 383x245, boot puppy and I noticed Xorg.0.log says it probed the screen 27?x22? (sorry couldn't remember the exact), I'm guessing the 1024x768 size but will use 383x245 instead, which it did coz there are no more black border all around the screen, but instead of giving me 1440x900, it stretched the 1024x768

I think if the laptop's screen is a true 1440x900, meaning no option in bios setting to expand screen to get the max res, this old card will still work and get the native res. What do you think?

Time to try 8Geee's suggestion....here's to hoping....but not too much :D
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#27 Post by bigpup »

When you boot Puppy.

In a console enter this:

Code: Select all

xrandr
That will tell you what resolution options the driver is providing.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#28 Post by jp734 »

Done that previously and it always gave me a min of 640x480 and a max of 1024x768. Current setting 1024x768. Nothing changed.
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#29 Post by bigpup »

menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info

Copy and paste what it says, so I can see what is actually being used.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#30 Post by jp734 »

Report below. I have downloaded tahrpup 6.0.5 and will try it next time.
VIDEO REPORT: xenialpup, version 7.5

Chip description:
VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV370/M22 [Mobility Radeon X300]

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Resolution (widthxheight, in pixels): 1440x900
Depth (bits, or planes): 24
Modules requested to be loaded: synaptics dbe
Drivers requested to be loaded: radeon

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Driver loaded (and currently in use): radeon
Loaded modules: ati dbe ddc fb fbdevhw glx int10 kbd mouse shadow synaptics vbe vesa

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1024x768 pixels (388x247 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

...the above also recorded in /tmp/report-video
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#31 Post by jp734 »

I just remembered, back then, in order to get the max resolution, I had to set the horizontal and vertical refresh rates of the monitor on xorg.conf. Would that be the case here or is that only for external monitors and not for a laptop screen? What would be the refresh rates of laptop screens? Users manual downloaded from Dell's website doesnt give me the info.
Top
User avatar
Burn_IT
Posts: 3650
Joined: Sat 12 Aug 2006, 19:25
Location: Tamworth UK

#32 Post by Burn_IT »

That could well be part of the problem - that the card is trying to drive the screen at the wrong rate, or wrong resolution.
Most use between 56 and 66 Hz, though a screen specifically designed for gaming might use higher.

To get the best results on a Laptop screen you must NOT change the rate, and you should use the native resolution or a fraction that is an integer - never higher than the default.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#33 Post by jp734 »

Definitely the card and the screen not communicating properly.

menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info is saying
Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1024x768 pixels (388x247 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes
when dell says display size is 383x245 millimeters. A small number but might be enough to cause the issue. I'll try to manually set the refresh rates later as well.
Top
User avatar
RetroTechGuy
Posts: 2947
Joined: Tue 15 Dec 2009, 17:20
Location: USA

#34 Post by RetroTechGuy »

Mike Walsh wrote:Hm. That's interesting.

The graphics chip in my old Compaq desktop (which is getting on for 15 yrs old now) is, according to [...]
My usual M.O. is just to try a different version, if one doesn't work.

I've had good luck with the boilerplate and updated 5.28 family for hardware detection.

I'm about to try Precise Retro on some older machines (I'm finding some of the new versions to be a little "heavy" for some of the machines). I have a couple Dells, and had no trouble with auto-detection.

Now as for Compaq...I still have an old 333MHz laptop, with 256MB RAM (I think that was the maximum) -- I think that I had 5.25 Retro running on it. Though it worked better with the old 4.11, 4.12, 4.20 (IIRC, 4.30 got a bit heavy for it also). It still has Win98 installed, and dual boots Lin'N'Win.

Really, most of the versions work OK on pretty much any machine. Where the trouble comes in is trying to get a "modern enough" browser...some of the newer versions of Firefox will put the machine right on its knees...
Last edited by RetroTechGuy on Thu 14 Jun 2018, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
[url=http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html]PuppyLinux.US Search[/url]
Top
User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#35 Post by bigpup »

I just remembered, back then, in order to get the max resolution, I had to set the horizontal and vertical refresh rates of the monitor on xorg.conf.
By the output you posted from menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info.
You are already asking xorg.conf to give you 1440x900, but it is dropping down to 1024X768.

The xrandr output you say only gives a max setting of 1024X768.
That is what the driver being used can provide.

Need to be using a different driver that will give higher resolution settings.

Probably need the manufacturers driver and not this generic Radeon driver that is being used.

Going to the driver download site.
They give this driver as what should work on this hardware.
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/ ... inux%20x86
Notice this info:
Description:
Automated installer and Display Drivers for Xorg 6.9 to Xserver 1.12 and Kernel version up to 3.4
Seems to use it you need to be using a Puppy version that is using a Linux kernel no higher than 3.4.
X server no higher than 1.12

So, this says you need an older Puppy version to get this driver working. One that is using these older Linux kernels and X server.

Maybe Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.005
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
Lucid Puppy has this ATI driver compiled for it.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... -Lucid.pet
It may work for your hardware if you use this driver in Lucid Puppy.

Nvidia gives better support for Linux than AMD/ATI does.
This card is considered legacy hardware and AMD/ATI really do not care much about still supporting it in newer OS.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#36 Post by jp734 »

Ok...downloaded lucid puppy and ati fglrx pet and this is what I get

1 - With or without radeon.modeset=0, I get blue screen with vertical lines. The only time I was able to see anything is when I connected my external monitor (1920x1080). menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info says using radeon and 1440x900 but still nothing on the laptop screen

2 - Installed fglrx pet, ran "aticonfig --initial" and "no supported graphics found"

3 - ran xorgwizard and this is what I get:
a: 1440x900x16 "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card"
b: 1440x900x24 "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card"
c: the rest of the resolution from 320x230 all the way up to 1920x1080, it's either "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card" or vise versa or not supported by both. Except 1024x768x24 which is supported by both which contradicts everything when I had external monitor hooked up

I can try puppy 4.3.1 but I'm beginning to think, the only way it will work properly is if I use the same kernel and xorg version Ubuntu 7 is using. Should be able to use the laptop for most stuff but like RetroTechGuy said, I'm not sure about web browsers. I can ask him to buy a NVidia card, fX2500, but what guarantee it will work with current versions of puppy?

I have two Radeon HD5850s and love it but just can't help and think how these cards will work in the future. Slowly starting to lean towards NVidia
Top
darry19662018
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat 31 Mar 2018, 08:01
Location: Rakaia
Contact:
Contact darry19662018

#37 Post by darry19662018 »

Hello jp734,

If you are going back to that era can I make 2 suggestions for Pups that may help based on 4.31

One is Fluppy produced by Jemimah and is specically made for Laptops
original thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=56156

Origianl ISO: https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linu ... py-013.iso

My updated trimmed down version: https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linu ... re2018.iso

It will work with Watchdog's special Palemoon packages.
Top
darry19662018
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat 31 Mar 2018, 08:01
Location: Rakaia
Contact:
Contact darry19662018

#38 Post by darry19662018 »

There is also Stardust by Zigbert as well which I have used and updated.

https://archive.org/download/Stardustpu ... bc2.10.iso
Top
jp734
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:59

#39 Post by jp734 »

Thanks guys I will definitely check them out.

I found an NVidia Graphics on ebay with DDR3 and asked him to purchase. For 18 dollars I think it's definitely worth an upgrade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-M1710 ... SwBXhbGrYE

I've already taken the graphic card off and once put together, I will definitely come back here and give you guys an update
Top
darry19662018
Posts: 721
Joined: Sat 31 Mar 2018, 08:01
Location: Rakaia
Contact:
Contact darry19662018

#40 Post by darry19662018 »

Palemoon for use with older Puppies'

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 676#973676
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Users ( For the regulars )”