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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Old Laptop - Black Screen
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 06:35    Post subject:  

I just remembered, back then, in order to get the max resolution, I had to set the horizontal and vertical refresh rates of the monitor on xorg.conf. Would that be the case here or is that only for external monitors and not for a laptop screen? What would be the refresh rates of laptop screens? Users manual downloaded from Dell's website doesnt give me the info.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3109
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 07:34    Post subject:  

That could well be part of the problem - that the card is trying to drive the screen at the wrong rate, or wrong resolution.
Most use between 56 and 66 Hz, though a screen specifically designed for gaming might use higher.

To get the best results on a Laptop screen you must NOT change the rate, and you should use the native resolution or a fraction that is an integer - never higher than the default.

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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 11:42    Post subject:  

Definitely the card and the screen not communicating properly.

menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info is saying
Quote:
Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1024x768 pixels (388x247 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

when dell says display size is 383x245 millimeters. A small number but might be enough to cause the issue. I'll try to manually set the refresh rates later as well.
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2889
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 11:58    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:
Hm. That's interesting.

The graphics chip in my old Compaq desktop (which is getting on for 15 yrs old now) is, according to [...]


My usual M.O. is just to try a different version, if one doesn't work.

I've had good luck with the boilerplate and updated 5.28 family for hardware detection.

I'm about to try Precise Retro on some older machines (I'm finding some of the new versions to be a little "heavy" for some of the machines). I have a couple Dells, and had no trouble with auto-detection.

Now as for Compaq...I still have an old 333MHz laptop, with 256MB RAM (I think that was the maximum) -- I think that I had 5.25 Retro running on it. Though it worked better with the old 4.11, 4.12, 4.20 (IIRC, 4.30 got a bit heavy for it also). It still has Win98 installed, and dual boots Lin'N'Win.

Really, most of the versions work OK on pretty much any machine. Where the trouble comes in is trying to get a "modern enough" browser...some of the newer versions of Firefox will put the machine right on its knees...

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Last edited by RetroTechGuy on Thu 14 Jun 2018, 12:02; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10598
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 12:00    Post subject:  

Quote:
I just remembered, back then, in order to get the max resolution, I had to set the horizontal and vertical refresh rates of the monitor on xorg.conf.

By the output you posted from menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info.
You are already asking xorg.conf to give you 1440x900, but it is dropping down to 1024X768.

The xrandr output you say only gives a max setting of 1024X768.
That is what the driver being used can provide.

Need to be using a different driver that will give higher resolution settings.

Probably need the manufacturers driver and not this generic Radeon driver that is being used.

Going to the driver download site.
They give this driver as what should work on this hardware.
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=Legacy2&os=Linux%20x86
Notice this info:
Description:
Quote:
Automated installer and Display Drivers for Xorg 6.9 to Xserver 1.12 and Kernel version up to 3.4

Seems to use it you need to be using a Puppy version that is using a Linux kernel no higher than 3.4.
X server no higher than 1.12


So, this says you need an older Puppy version to get this driver working. One that is using these older Linux kernels and X server.

Maybe Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.005
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
Lucid Puppy has this ATI driver compiled for it.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pet_packages-lucid/ATI_fglrx-10.10-Lucid.pet
It may work for your hardware if you use this driver in Lucid Puppy.

Nvidia gives better support for Linux than AMD/ATI does.
This card is considered legacy hardware and AMD/ATI really do not care much about still supporting it in newer OS.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 08:55    Post subject:  

Ok...downloaded lucid puppy and ati fglrx pet and this is what I get

1 - With or without radeon.modeset=0, I get blue screen with vertical lines. The only time I was able to see anything is when I connected my external monitor (1920x1080). menu>System>Pup-Sysinfo>Devices>Display>Video-Info says using radeon and 1440x900 but still nothing on the laptop screen

2 - Installed fglrx pet, ran "aticonfig --initial" and "no supported graphics found"

3 - ran xorgwizard and this is what I get:
a: 1440x900x16 "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card"
b: 1440x900x24 "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card"
c: the rest of the resolution from 320x230 all the way up to 1920x1080, it's either "supported by monitor but maybe not with the card" or vise versa or not supported by both. Except 1024x768x24 which is supported by both which contradicts everything when I had external monitor hooked up

I can try puppy 4.3.1 but I'm beginning to think, the only way it will work properly is if I use the same kernel and xorg version Ubuntu 7 is using. Should be able to use the laptop for most stuff but like RetroTechGuy said, I'm not sure about web browsers. I can ask him to buy a NVidia card, fX2500, but what guarantee it will work with current versions of puppy?

I have two Radeon HD5850s and love it but just can't help and think how these cards will work in the future. Slowly starting to lean towards NVidia
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 16:51    Post subject:  

Hello jp734,

If you are going back to that era can I make 2 suggestions for Pups that may help based on 4.31

One is Fluppy produced by Jemimah and is specically made for Laptops
original thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=56156

Origianl ISO: https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_Fluppy/Fluppy-013.iso

My updated trimmed down version: https://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_Fluppy/fluppy-0.13bare2018.iso

It will work with Watchdog's special Palemoon packages.
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 16:54    Post subject:  

There is also Stardust by Zigbert as well which I have used and updated.

https://archive.org/download/Stardustpup013glibc2.10/Stardustpup013glibc2.10.iso
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 17:42    Post subject:  

Thanks guys I will definitely check them out.

I found an NVidia Graphics on ebay with DDR3 and asked him to purchase. For 18 dollars I think it's definitely worth an upgrade.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-M1710-Precision-M90-512MB-DDR3-Nvidia-Geforce-7950-GTX-Video-Card-58C8T/202336734043?hash=item2f1c358b5b:g:WCwAAOSwBXhbGrYE

I've already taken the graphic card off and once put together, I will definitely come back here and give you guys an update
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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 18:06    Post subject:  

Palemoon for use with older Puppies'

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=973676#973676
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10598
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 18:34    Post subject:  

I still think you have not found the correct driver to try and use.
Again, dealing with legacy AMD/ATI hardware and what driver they are willing to make available.

I found this info:
Quote:
Radeon (Catalyst <= 9.3 & Open Source)
For this hardware:
* RV370 Radeon X300, M22

ATI/AMD dropped Catalyst support for these cards in Catalyst 9-4. These cards are supported with the legacy ATI 9-3 Catalyst release, but you MUST use a kernel <= 2.6.28 and Xserver <= 1.5.


Still going to require an older Puppy that is using x server and Linux kernel within these limits.

You will have to find this driver and probably compile it for the Puppy you try to use it in.
Do you want to try and do that?

However , you could be correct about what resolutions does this laptop internal monitor really support.
That is some kind of strange bios settings it has for the monitor.
Who knows, it is a DEll! Rolling Eyes

AMD says this driver will support the hardware.
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=Legacy2&os=Linux%20x86
But again, it limits what Puppy to use it in and will need to be compiled to use it.
Again, do you want to try and do that compiling?

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10598
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 18:50    Post subject:  

Key question!
Are you having fun yet?

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 20:51    Post subject:  

Of course I'm having fun. Very Happy

As far as compilng. Never done that before. If there is a very straight forward guide, maybe I'll give it a shot. I'm waiting for his response if he still wants to spend $18 bucks for the nvidia card. If not, I will put the old card and continue searching for the right driver.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10598
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2018, 12:20    Post subject:  

This can also be a Nvidia problem with Linux.
However, Nvidia does seem to want to give better support for Linux!

Example:
I have a really old Nvidia card.
Nvidia's newest driver does not support it. (375)
The last driver supporting it was (173)
The newest Puppies, this 173 driver will not compile in.

This is the same thing you are running into.

This is why Puppy comes with a generic driver for graphic hardware.
Radeon ->ATI/AMD
Nouveau ->Nvidia
i915 ->Intel
Those drivers support about everything, but do not give full feature support. That has to be specific driver for specific hardware.

I have not done a ATI/AMD driver compiling in many years.
But basically.
Puppy needs the devx sfs and the kernel sources sfs packages loaded for the Puppy version being used.
Those provide the needed files to compile.
You can get them here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/
The kernel sources are usually in the pet repository.
Make sure to get the correct kernel sources for the kernel that is being used by the Puppy version.
Some have several.

The devx sfs is usually in the iso repository.
Just look in the sections that is for the named Puppy version.

Download the AMD/ATI driver package.

Load the devx and kernel sources sfs by using menu>System>Boot Manager>SFS Packages
Reboot
Run the AMD/ATI driver package installer by exiting to the prompt.
Follow what it says to do.

If it says anything about setting up xorg.conf
Try to say no.
Setup xorg.conf by using the xorgwizard run in a terminal or at the prompt.

Hpoefully I remembered that correctly Laughing Shocked Laughing

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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jp734

Joined: 29 Mar 2014
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2018, 22:19    Post subject:  

I was working on a car today and I fired up an old pc in my garage to watch a tutorial on youtube. I forgot all about this computer and out of curiosity I checked the specs.

SURPRISED!!!
Pentium D
ATI X600
OS: SLACKO64 6.3.0
KERNEL 4.1.11
XORG 1.14.?
MONITOR RESOLUTION 1280X1024 (max res of monitor)
DRIVER ATI

After seeing this, I wonder why I had so much trouble with my ATI X300. I really do believe now that the real issue is the video option "EXPAND SCREEN" in bios setting...and it's a DELL...Dilemma solved
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