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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Wary HD install won't boot
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 15:20    Post subject:  

This is getting weirder and weirder. I rebooted, planing to change the video settings, but it booted up so fast I never got the chance. I assume it saved the settings from first boot up. I got the same thing, a bottom panel but screen above all black. Menu works fine, you can select things, but then there's nothing there to see after you do.

Also, and this is the really weird part, I realized that the Puppy that booted is Wary, not 412, which is what I had installed last night. I assumed it had overwritten Wary, but apparently not so. I can tell it's Wary because the panel is dark blue, where 412 is silvery or something like that.

Since Wary is up, I'll see if I can adjust video settings, Who knows, maybe Wary will work on this machine. But I suspect 412 would be better. I'll probably have to reinstall it.
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 18:11    Post subject:  

mdiemer wrote:
I have considered a frugal install, but have held off due to fear of messing up Windows. Although any damage could probably be undone. I may give it a go.

You don't have to install it (or its bootloader) to the Windows partition. You may as well install it on the 'sdb' drive, with the bootloader also placed there, just like you did with the full install. BTW, are you able to boot Windows from your Grub or Grub4Dos menu? If not, maybe this helps...

I've done some experimenting with a virtual machine. I used a Windows 98 install on a disk image that I had lying around somewhere, and installed Puppy on another. I had the following setup:

- /dev/sda was a SATA drive with one fat32 partition (sda1, with boot flag) and Windows 98
- /dev/sdb was an IDE drive with 2 partitions - a small fat32 partition (sdb1, with boot flag), and a bigger ext2 partition (sdb2) to install Puppy on

I tried both Puppy 4.1.2 and Wary 5.1.2, which is the Puppy version I'm normally using. (I would expect other Wary versions to behave in a similar way, though). Wary has two different bootloaders you can choose from when installing the system - the legacy Grub and Grub4Dos; Puppy 4 only has Grub.

Doing a full install of Puppy 4 resulted in the error you posted (which I see you have worked out already):
mdiemer wrote:
Booting Linux (on /dev/sdb2)
root (hd1,1)
Error 22: no such partition

From Puppy's installer:
Quote:
WARNING: If your PC has a mix of IDE and SATA hard drives, then (hd1,1)
may be wrong. GRUB numbers drives as hd<drive>,<partition> where
<drive> and <partition> numbering starts from zero. The problem is
that GRUB sees IDE drives first (hd0,), whereas if you look at Pmount
you may see it listed second (hd1,). The Uni. Installer uses the
ordering as reported by Pmount, which may be wrong for GRUB!
(EX: if an IDE drive is hd1,0 (sdb1), may need to be changed to hd0,0)

I opened the 'menu.lst' file, which was in /mnt/sdb2/boot/grub, and replaced every instance of "hd1" with "hd0" and vice versa. After that, Puppy booted... but Windows still didn't. I'm not entirely sure if that was Grub's fault, though - the Windows 98 bootloader had refused to work on this virtual machine from the moment I installed it - I only got the system running via Grub4Dos in the first place. Maybe you have more luck.

For the Wary install, I used Grub4Dos as bootloader instead of Grub (choosing /dev/sdb to install to and accepting all default settings without any further edits). The Grub4Dos files went to sdb1, which had the boot flag set. I also tried installing Puppy 4.1.2 and then booting a Wary CD to run the Grub4Dos setup to replace Puppy 4's Grub.

This worked for Puppy, but sometimes Windows didn't boot - as I found out, in these cases there were some lines missing from its entry in 'menu.lst'. Once I added the three "map" lines as seen below (I found them in the menu.lst file of a Wary install that happened to work with Windows), it booted.
Code:
# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
  map (hd1) (hd0)
  map (hd0) (hd1)
  map --hook
  errorcheck off
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /bootmgr
  chainloader /bootmgr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /ntldr
  chainloader /ntldr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd   /io.sys
  chainloader /io.sys
  errorcheck on


mdiemer wrote:
Also, and this is the really weird part, I realized that the Puppy that booted is Wary, not 412, which is what I had installed last night. I assumed it had overwritten Wary, but apparently not so. I can tell it's Wary because the panel is dark blue, where 412 is silvery or something like that.

Those were both full installs? And you didn't delete the files from the first one, or re-format the partition before installing the second?

I just tried that out of curiosity... I first installed Wary 5.1.2, then Puppy 4.1.2 on the same partition - it resulted in a weird abomination of a system that's part Wary, part Puppy 4. With Puppy 4's kernel, Wary's desktop and applications from both... I'm surprised it's working at all - but the sound and network seem to be broken, and quite likely many other things, too. Smile
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 19:53    Post subject:  

Thanks mostly_lurking for your extensive reply, I really appreciate it.
Good to know that I'm not losing my mind, in that you also ended up with a hybrid puppy when installing two different versions.

Before reading your post, I played around some more, and reinstalled 412 to sdb2, this time formatting it first, to hopefully get rid of previous installs. But it wouldn't boot.

I next tried a frugal install, like you said installing it to sdb not sda, so as not to endanger Windows (and incur the wrath of my wife). no boot there either.

I will now reinstall again, formatting again, and change all hd1's to hd0's and vice versa. Previously, I only changed the ones I thought were relevant. Hopefully that will make a difference.

Incidentally, the time I got it to boot, I also was able to boot Windows from Grub. Although not at first; I had to do change the menu list as above, then it booted. I nearly had it there! Only problem was it was 412/Wary pup, and only the panel was present in GUI (which was how I realized it was Wary). you could open a few things, like the calculator, but most things would try to open and then vanish immediately.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2525
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 20:18    Post subject:  

Hi again mdiemer,

Except the last paragraph, this was written before your last post --

Male cats and kidney disease. Yah, that's what took Bandit as well.

I've reviewed your posts. I still don't know HOW you are installing Puppies to the hard drive. I would guess that you burned a CD, booted Puppy via the CD and then opened "Menu>Setup>Puppy Installer". I've put that in quotes as I do not have a running version of any Puppy as old as Wary or 4.12. But my sometimes flaky memory suggest that something like the procedure I've quoted has been standard for as long as I've been using Puppies. Please confirm or correct providing details. There's an off-chance that you've been "installing" Puppies in some way we haven't taken into account, which produces effects we haven't anticipated.

But I think you and mostly_lurking have figured out your latest weird results. Since you did not delete Wary from sdb2, and PL412 does not automatically delete pre-existing files, the installation of PL412 merely wrote files to sdb2, over-writing some of Wary's files, leaving other Wary files intact, and you ended up with a combination which, surprisingly, was even somewhat functional.

The moral of the story being, on the next attempt, first run gparted to delete and re-create sdb2.

You've mentioned manually changing the boot menu. Won't PL 4.12's installer automatically write a boot menu?

mikesLr
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 22:16    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi again mdiemer,

Except the last paragraph, this was written before your last post --

Male cats and kidney disease. Yah, that's what took Bandit as well.

I've reviewed your posts. I still don't know HOW you are installing Puppies to the hard drive. I would guess that you burned a CD, booted Puppy via the CD and then opened "Menu>Setup>Puppy Installer". I've put that in quotes as I do not have a running version of any Puppy as old as Wary or 4.12. But my sometimes flaky memory suggest that something like the procedure I've quoted has been standard for as long as I've been using Puppies. Please confirm or correct providing details. There's an off-chance that you've been "installing" Puppies in some way we haven't taken into account, which produces effects we haven't anticipated.

But I think you and mostly_lurking have figured out your latest weird results. Since you did not delete Wary from sdb2, and PL412 does not automatically delete pre-existing files, the installation of PL412 merely wrote files to sdb2, over-writing some of Wary's files, leaving other Wary files intact, and you ended up with a combination which, surprisingly, was even somewhat functional.

The moral of the story being, on the next attempt, first run gparted to delete and re-create sdb2.

You've mentioned manually changing the boot menu. Won't PL 4.12's installer automatically write a boot menu?

mikesLr


Since you wrote this mike, I succeeded in getting puppy 412 to boot. The mistake I was making is that I was changing sdb2 to hd0,0, when it should be hd0,1.

To answer your first question, I am installing via live CD.

now I'm going to see if Windows will boot. When I'm confident all is well, I'll post exactly what I did.
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jul 2018, 23:38    Post subject:  

So here is where I am at now:

I installed Puppy Linux 412 to HDD sdb2 (full install).
Windows is on HDD sda. Both drives are IDE.
To Get puppy to boot, I had to edit the menu list as follows:

sdb2 is listed in grub as hd1,1. But that will not boot system. I changed it to hdo,1. That will boot system.

however, at this point, I cannot figure out how to boot Windows from the grub menu. It is listed as hd1,1. That needs to be changed, but I can't figure out to what. So for now I am switching bios to boot sda (the windows drive) by default, and if I want to boot puppy, I will change bios at boot time. This is so my wife can boot Windows.

Puppy 412 is running really well on this computer, which is a Gateway G6-300 with Pentium II 300 Mhz cpu, and 384 MB of ram. It boots very fast, and runs flawlessly. Amazing operating system.
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:32    Post subject:  

mdiemer wrote:
however, at this point, I cannot figure out how to boot Windows from the grub menu. It is listed as hd1,1. That needs to be changed, but I can't figure out to what.

If Windows - or its own bootloader - is installed on the drive's first partition, I guess it should be 'hd1,0', since Grub's numbering of drives and partitions starts at 0, as the quote from the Puppy installer in my previous post suggests. I can't verify this, though, because I've not been able to boot Windows with Grub at all, only with Grub4Dos. (Which might be a problem with my specific setup, as I mentioned before.)
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2525
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 11:12    Post subject: Puppy and Windows 98  

Hi mdiemer,

I agree with mostly_lurking. You have two hard drives. Booting with grub4dos on hd0,0, it sees PL412 as being located on hd0,0. Windows is on the first partition of your other hard-drive. So grub4dos (on hd0,0) would see Windows as being on hd1,0.

But does anyone know whether grub4dos can boot Windows 98?

If not, you may want to boot into windows and install "grub.exe". See this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30018&sid=534edf3a28ba25067c5aa26983c58990. However, frankly --other than that grub.exe is a Windows program run from Windows-- it confuses me. Embarassed

Just in case, I tracked down grub.exe You'll find it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mtyumi/files/grub.exe/download
mikesLr
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 12:01    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
But does anyone know whether grub4dos can boot Windows 98?

Yes - at least it worked for me, see my first post. But the version of Puppy 4.1.2 that I used didn't have Grub4Dos, it used Grub, which, as far as I can tell, is also what mdiemer is using right now. I booted a Wary CD and ran the Grub4Dos config program from its 'System' menu to install Grub4Dos, then edited the 'menu.lst' to include the "map" lines that were missing from it, which appear to be necessary when the Windows system is on a different drive than the Grub4Dos bootloader.

mikeslr wrote:
If not, you may want to boot into windows and install "grub.exe". See this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=30018&sid=534edf3a28ba25067c5aa26983c58990. However, frankly --other than that grub.exe is a Windows program run from Windows-- it confuses me.

I'm confused, too... is grub.exe something that needs to be installed on Windows and modifies the Windows boot? In that case, I'm not sure if that's a solution here - as far as I understand it, mdiemer doesn't want to make any changes to the Windows system or its bootloader.
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 13:08    Post subject:  

Thanks Mike and mostly_lurking. today's primary task, since I'm recovering from a nasty virus and it's raining anyway, will be to transcribe the Menu List in the Boot folder, so I can post it here and you can see exactly how it is configured. I cannot print it out, because I cannot configure a printer, since the computer is not connected online. So, I will hand-write it out and then type it up on my other computer. (I tried saving it to my thumb drive but can't seem to do that for some reason).

I agree, sda1/windows should read (hd1,0), since sdb2/puppy reads (hd0,1), after I changed it from (hd1,1). That is the only change in effect at this moment. I had tried editing sda1 to read (hd1,0), but it still would not boot. I am ignorant as to all the other instances of (hdx's) in the menu list, especially the mapping thing. When I post the menu list, it will be exactly as installed, except for the one change to sdb2.
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 15:13    Post subject:  

So here it is, the Menu List from PL 412.


Menu List, Puppy Linux 4.1.2 July 17, 2018

# Grub configuration file ‘/boot/grub/menu.lst’.
# generated by ‘grubconfig’. Tue Jul 17 00:34:31 2018
#
# Start GRUB global section
# timeout 30
color light-gray/blue black/light-gray
# End GRUB global section
# Other bootable partition begins
title Windows (on /devsda1)
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1
# Other bootable partition ends
# Other bootable partition begins
title Windows (on /devsdb1) [Note: this is probably a backup or image of Win]
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
makeactive
chainloader + 1
# Other bootable partition config ends
#Linux bootable partition config begins
title Linux (on /dev/sdb2)
root (hd0,1) [Note: this is the only change I made]
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sdb2 ro vga=normal
#Linux bootable partition ends
title Install GRUB to floppy disk (on /dev/fd0)
pause Insert a formatted floppy disk and press enter.
root (hd1,1)
setup (fd0)
pause Press enter to continue.
Title Install GRUB to Linux partition (on dev/sdb2)
root (hd1,1)
setup (hd1,1)
pause Press enter to continue.
Title – For help press ‘c’ then type: ‘help’
root (hd0)
title – For usage examples, type ‘cat boot/grub/usage.txt’
root (hd0)


As you can see, I made two notes. The first is for the second Windows entry, on sdb1. This may be a backup, image or bad install of Windows; I don't remember. But it boots into a ghostly image of Windows. Weird.

The second note is for the only change I have made to the list, from (hd1,1) to (hd0,1). This is what has allowed puppy to boot from sdb2.

Hopefully this will help make things clearer. The primary issue now is to be able to boot Windows from sdb2 grub menu.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10874
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jul 2018, 23:27    Post subject:  

This could get Grub4dos working the way it should work.
Use the latest version.
V1.9.2
Download it from here:
Grub4dos config
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=51697

Grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.9.2.pet
http://shino.pos.to/linux/puppy/grub4dos-0.4.4.v1.9.2.pet

Download and install when running Puppy 412.

When Running Grub4dos config V1.9.2
Select to Install to sdb
Only choice needed to make.
All other options are good as they are by default.
Keep selecting OK until program ends.
Do not edit the menu.
Reboot computer by selecting in bios to boot from device sdb.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jul 2018, 10:28    Post subject:  

I installed Windows 98 on a fat16 partition, which got its bootloader working (but made the system even more crash-happy than before and caused problems with the third-party graphics driver I was using; had to switch back to the awful built-in 16-color driver...). Anyway, I could do some more testing with different setups on a virtual machine.
Virtualbox does not allow me to set the boot order of multiple hard drives, but its BIOS has a boot menu accessible by pressing "F12" during boot. (Does your computer have such a boot menu, too? In that case, you could leave the Windows disk as default boot and pick the Linux disk from the menu when you want to use it, if you can't get Windows to boot with either Grub or Grub4Dos.)

For me, the following two configurations were working out of the box.
(I re-ran the Grub config program from a Puppy 4 CD after every change of drive configuration.)

- hd0/sda (IDE, master) with Windows (on sda1, first Windows entry in the Grub menu works)
- hd1/sdb (IDE, slave) with Puppy (on sdb2)
--> default boot is hd0 (Windows boot); select hd1 (Grub) from BIOS boot menu

- hd0/sda (IDE, master) with Puppy (on sda2)
- hd1/sdb (IDE, slave) with Windows (on sdb1, second Windows entry works)
--> default boot is hd0 (Grub)

Neither of the above created the situation you have, where Grub sees the drives in a different order than Puppy does, but the following do:

- hd0, IDE, Windows > default
- hd1, SATA, Puppy > via BIOS boot menu; first Windows entry works
--> had to change Linux menu entry from 'hd0,1' to 'hd1,1'
--> Puppy sees its own drive as sda and the Windows drive as sdb

- hd0, IDE, Puppy > default
- hd1, SATA, Windows > via BIOS boot menu
--> had to change Linux menu entry from 'hd1,1' to 'hd0,1'
--> Windows 98 tries booting from second Grub menu entry, but fails (can't access boot disk, apparently; it might have a problem with the drive order - it boots from the SATA drive when the IDE drive is removed)
--> Puppy sees its own drive as sdb and the Windows drive as sda

This last configuration was the one that most resembled yours - Windows drive as sda, Linux drive as sdb, Grub had them switched around, and it produced a menu.lst file very similar to yours. There seems to be a "rootnoverify..." line missing from your second Windows entry, or maybe you merely overlooked it when writing the text down:
Code:
title Windows (on /dev/sdb1)
  map (hd0) (hd1)
  map (hd1) (hd0)
  rootnoverify (hd1,0)
  makeactive
  chainloader +1

Despite the similarities, this is not identical to your situation - I was using one IDE and one SATA drive there.

With this setup, I installed the Grub4Dos .pet that bigpup posted above on the Puppy 4 system (I had to restart the JWM window manager afterwards to make the Grub4Dos bootloader configuration program show up in Puppy's 'System' menu; go to Menu > Shutdown > Restart JWM). Running the Grub4Dos config, I selected 'sdb'- the Linux drive - to install it to and left all options at default without editing anything. Then I rebooted, and both the Puppy and Windows entries in the new boot menu were working.
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jul 2018, 12:42    Post subject:  

Thank you Bigpup and Lurker, I will work on these suggestions later today. One problem with updating grub: the computer is offline, internet access not even possible at this time. So I will attempt to download updated grub on other computer and install it via CD. This will all take awhile, other priorities to deal with while the sun shines. Cool
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mdiemer

Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jul 2018, 17:20    Post subject:  

Bigpup, it worked! I really like that version of grub4dos, very elegant. Wow, wait until I show the wife. Maybe she will even allow this computer to go online! with a very short lease, of course.

Thanks also to mostly_lurking, Perdido, Mike Walsh, mike sir (aka the catman), and also the others who chimed in. I have learned a lot, and in the process have grown to really love Puppy Linux. I am seriously considering installing a recent version on my other computer, and maybe the wife's laptop. It is so easy to use, and it's a serious system, not just something for older hardware. It's one of the best Linux distros out there, period.

Problem solved! Very Happy
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