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Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007, 12:27
by Lobster
with the new NOP 3.01r2 (in it now) being set up for compiz, will we be seeing a new wobble? aka WNOP?
Hope so
Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007, 21:18
by tombh
@Mycology: Your wNOPdump looks fine, so I'm not really sure what's wrong. Could you describe again in more detail the problem you're having - possibly a screenshot too? Also do you know what these options --
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Option "VideoOverlay" "on"
Option "OpenGLOverlay" "off"
do in your xorg.conf file? I'm not sure either, maybe try without them?
@Lobster: Oh yes! I downloaded NOPr2 last nite and have already started adding wobbliness to it
Still wouldn't mind a bit more positive feedback from the fglrx fix first though. Watch this space!
deleted
Posted: Sat 15 Dec 2007, 21:12
by Mycology
@tombh I deleted Option "VideoOverlay" "on"
Option "OpenGLOverlay" "off"
in my xorg.conf file.
First nothing changed, I thought.
But maybe compiz is stable now. I
did not "lose compiz" while open or
close windows / applications / run programs .
I did not get "autostart compiz" runnning with xinitrc ...
any advice?
Posted: Sun 16 Dec 2007, 12:12
by tombh
@Mycology: Hope you're Compiz-Fusion continues to run stable. So about autostarting -- the best way is to open /root/.xinitrc in mousepad and edit this bit...
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###########################################
#loads Compiz-Fusion if configured properly
COMPIZFLAG=`cat /etc/compizflag.txt`
if [ $COMPIZFLAG = "yes" ]; then
compiz-manager &
sleep 1
fi
##########################################
so that
reads
If that doesn't work you can try autostarting it from Xfce's autostart application. It can be found by going to Menu->Settings->Autostarted Applications->Add. Then type something like 'Compiz-Fusion' in the description box and
in the command box.
If restarting X does not work try a full system reboot.
Let me know how it goes...
autostart still does not function
Posted: Sun 16 Dec 2007, 22:09
by Mycology
@tombh THX for your support
I did an edit of xinitrc like you described.
when puppy starts, nothing has changed. compiz is not active.
If I try to start it manual with SKIP_CHECKS....I get an error message which is attached.
???
Greetings and again TTTTHHHXXX a LOTTTTTTT
Posted: Mon 17 Dec 2007, 05:14
by floborg
tombh wrote:@floborg: Can you not choose the <Plain Xfce> Option during the Compiz-Fusion Wizard at boot time? It would be good if that did work cos otherwise we might have to do it all the old school manual way!
Ok, this one was made running wNOP in Compiz mode.
Posted: Mon 17 Dec 2007, 17:51
by tombh
@Mycology: You forgot the attachment! So you can't get Compiz-Fusion to work at all now? Have you thought about starting all over with a fresh live-CD boot of wNOP and installing kirk's ATI-fglrx dotpet from scratch? I know that might be a lot of work, but it would be good to know the exact steps you go through to get wobbliness -- whether it autostarts or not. Oh yeah, did you try the Xfce autostart application I mentioned?
@floborg: Thanks for the wNOPdump -- I've been able to isolate the problem:
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(WW) ATI(0): DRI static buffer allocation failed -- need at least 4687 kB video memory
You have only
So close! To reduce the amount of memory used by your graphics there are two things you can do:
(1)Use the 16bit colour depth when setting up xorgwizard
(2)Reduce your screen resolution to 800x600.
(3)Or a combination of both -- ie:
Choose 800x600x16 in xorgwizard.
If there is no wobbliness after trying this please send the updated wNOPdump.
However, I fear that this will not get 3D accelaration going anyway
I'm reading that the default mach64 drivers that come with wNOP have 3D disabled as default (because of a security risk). I have compiled the drivers that do have 3D enabled, but I'm not very experienced in this area so I'm rumaging in the dark a bit. So if the previous method didn't work, first make a wNOPdump and post it, THEN install this dotpet fix (at end of post) then reboot X. And then if that doesn't work either, make yet another wNOPdump and post it.
It is important that you make these wNOPdumps at the correct points in your attempts to fix this as they give important information that is only applicable to your computer at that specific point in time.
Phew! There we are. Good luck with all that. Don't give up, I'd love to see wNOP running on your mach64
[attachment removed and updated further on]
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 2007, 06:20
by floborg
tombh wrote:
@floborg: Thanks for the wNOPdump -- I've been able to isolate the problem:
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(WW) ATI(0): DRI static buffer allocation failed -- need at least 4687 kB video memory
You have only
So close! To reduce the amount of memory used by your graphics there are two things you can do:
(1)Use the 16bit colour depth when setting up xorgwizard
(2)Reduce your screen resolution to 800x600.
(3)Or a combination of both -- ie:
Choose 800x600x16 in xorgwizard.
If there is no wobbliness after trying this please send the updated wNOPdump.
However, I fear that this will not get 3D accelaration going anyway
I'm reading that the default mach64 drivers that come with wNOP have 3D disabled as default (because of a security risk). I have compiled the drivers that do have 3D enabled, but I'm not very experienced in this area so I'm rumaging in the dark a bit. So if the previous method didn't work, first make a wNOPdump and post it, THEN install this dotpet fix (at end of post) then reboot X. And then if that doesn't work either, make yet another wNOPdump and post it.
Actually, I tried 800x600x16 the first time since those are my normal settings. No wobble. Then, I tried 24-bit color after hearing Compiz required it in the YouTube video. So, I went back to 800x600x16 and made a wNOP dump. I then tried 640x480 at 16-bit and 24-bit. No wobble. I then installed the ATI pet under 640x480x16. No wobble immediately after the install, but I assumed I would need to restart X, which I did. No wobble. In fact, getting window borders after restarting X was kind of hit or miss. Anyway, here are the dumps.
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 2007, 12:22
by tombh
@floborg: Well we're definitely getting somewhere. The reduction of resolution and bit depth certainly solved the memory problem but as I suspected DRI (hardware accelerated graphics) failed because of the missing module. After installing my dotpet the relevant modules became available and were loaded, the Xorg log reported a lot more success. This is really so very close
The error reported is this:
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(EE) ATI(0): [dri] ATIDRIScreenInit failed because of a version mismatch.
[dri] mach64.o kernel module version is 1.0.0, but version 2.x is needed (with 2.x >= 2.0).
[dri] Disabling DRI
So what I did was compile the bleeding edge modules (I double checked the mach64 module as being version 2) from git and made a new dotpet (see below). So if you just install this as per usual and restart X - fingers crossed there should be wobble, but if not please do the usual wNOPdump business again. Thanks floborg.
lost errormessage
Posted: Tue 18 Dec 2007, 18:39
by Mycology
hi,
I got that message and from then on compiz never started again.
Maybe I try a fresh install of wNOP next weekend - or is there a chance to rescue my system?
MESSAGE:
compiz (core) - Fatal: GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing
compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0
Micha
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 2007, 06:06
by floborg
tombh wrote:@floborg: Well we're definitely getting somewhere...
So what I did was compile the bleeding edge modules (I double checked the mach64 module as being version 2) from git and made a new dotpet (see below). So if you just install this as per usual and restart X - fingers crossed there should be wobble, but if not please do the usual wNOPdump business again. Thanks floborg.
Started up in 640x480 in 16-bit, installed the new pet, and restarted X. No wobble.
PS: All this help is appreciated. Thanks.
Here's the dump.
Posted: Wed 19 Dec 2007, 10:06
by tombh
@Mycology: Googling your errors I see that people are having similar problems especially caused with Radeon 9700 cards (others too though), some have reported success with
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LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=true compiz --replace
but others haven't. Try it and let me know. I would also be interested in seeing another wNOPdump as my feeling is that DRI has somehow been disabled. When things get like this my response is usually to start again, but there's still a few more things to try...
@floborg: Okay so DRI is now active, that really is good news in itself. This means that Puppy is now able to make the most of your graphics card. So what about Compiz-Fusion? All that remains now for clues is the output of
It's very likely all that's needed is:
PS
There was one error in Xorg.0.log:
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(EE) ATI(0): [agp] Illegal AGP Mode: 4
(WW) ATI(0): [agp] AGP failed to initialize -- falling back to PCI mode.
(WW) ATI(0): [agp] Make sure you have the agpgart kernel module loaded.
But I suspect it's not a problem as your card is probably PCI anyway? Maybe the error can be stopped by removing
from /etc/X11/xorg.conf
I'm confident though that this has nothing to do with wobbles not working.
Posted: Thu 20 Dec 2007, 08:14
by floborg
tombh wrote:
@floborg: Okay so DRI is now active, that really is good news in itself. This means that Puppy is now able to make the most of your graphics card. So what about Compiz-Fusion? All that remains now for clues is the output of
It's very likely all that's needed is:
PS
There was one error in Xorg.0.log:
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(EE) ATI(0): [agp] Illegal AGP Mode: 4
(WW) ATI(0): [agp] AGP failed to initialize -- falling back to PCI mode.
(WW) ATI(0): [agp] Make sure you have the agpgart kernel module loaded.
But I suspect it's not a problem as your card is probably PCI anyway? Maybe the error can be stopped by removing
from /etc/X11/xorg.conf
I'm confident though that this has nothing to do with wobbles not working.
It's not PCI. It's AGP 2x, and it's integrated. Here's what happened when I ran compiz-manager:
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sh-3.00# compiz-manager
Checking for Xgl: not present.
Detected PCI ID for VGA:
Checking for texture_from_pixmap: not present.
Trying again with indirect rendering:
Checking for texture_from_pixmap: present.
Checking for non power of two support: Not present.
aborting and using fallback: /usr/bin/metacity
no /usr/bin/metacity found, exiting
Here's what happened when I ran with skip checks:
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sh-3.00# SKIP_CHECKS=yes compiz-manager
Checking for Xgl: not present.
Detected PCI ID for VGA:
Checking for texture_from_pixmap: not present.
Trying again with indirect rendering:
Checking for texture_from_pixmap: present.
Checking for non power of two support: Not present.
SKIP_CHECKS is yes, so continuing despite problems.
Checking for nVidia: not present.
Checking for FBConfig: present.
Checking for Xgl: not present.
Starting emerald
/usr/bin/compiz (core) - Fatal: Support for non power of two textures missing
/usr/bin/compiz (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
/usr/bin/compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0
/usr/bin/compiz-manager: line 376: /usr/bin/metacity: No such file or directory
/usr/bin/compiz-manager: line 376: exec: /usr/bin/metacity: cannot execute: No such file or directory
Posted: Fri 21 Dec 2007, 16:08
by tombh
Hi floborg,
Bad news I'm afraid, it appears that your card just won't run Compiz-Fusion
It's because of this non-power-of-two support. From what I can gather graphics cards have to do a lot of maths and so try and take advantage of mathematical quirks -- such as square surface areas (ie power-of-two) being easier to manipulate. So non-power-of-two support probably refers to cards powerful enough to manipulate any sized surface areas, anyway your card and the mach64 driver don't do non-power-of-two maths.
This has led me to rethink my setup for wNOP, removing unneeded drivers and including detection and notification of unsupported cards. So at least I know where the bottom lines are now.
Thankyou very much for all your work, we pushed all the way to the limits and found a wall
But at least we know it's there now!
PS. You don't have to do this but just out of interest what does
return after those errors?
Just wondering how far compiz gets? Do the window borders disappear? Does holding ALT to drag a window work?
tom
Posted: Mon 24 Dec 2007, 13:26
by tombh
Seasons Greetings,
Yesterday I had the opportunity to use a laptop that had a new enough ATI card to use the fglrx driver -- this has been the one remaining area that wNOP has failed in. I managed to install the driver and get Compiz-Fusion 'working' -- it wasn't pretty.
The point is, that in order for Compiz-Fusion to talk to its graphics card (whoever the manufacturer), one of two technologies must be running, either AIGLX or XGL. From the beginning I decided to work with AIGLX, as Puppy 3 comes with it already working perfectly. The problem is though, that ATI has only just began programming their drivers to support AIGLX! Pooh
Of course, we are not restricted to running ATI cards with ATI drivers, there is also the open source radeon driver, which has, somewhat ironically, supported AIGLX for ages and in most cases outperforms the ATI drivers. However, and this is the problem, the radeon driver does not support the more recent ATI cards. So a tricky situation.
Now, my primary aim for wNOP is that it supports all the graphics cards that are capable of running Compiz-Fusion. As far as I know there is no other LiveCD distro that is able to do this 'out of the box'. I haven't tried Austrumi yet, partly because of the language barrier but also because I find it hard to believe that it does what wNOP aims to do but in 67MB! Anyway, whether wNOP is the first or not, I feel it is a very realistic goal and something that a lot of people would appreciate. Both that Puppy is such a staggering feat of innovation and that Compiz-Fusion is such an enjoyable and original way of using a desktop -- an awesome combination in my opinion.
So I was just on the verge of releasing wNOP2, I had the ISO ready and everything, but now, after seeing fglrx and AIGLX in action for myself, I feel it would be best to change direction away from AIGLX and towards XGL. This is unfortunate for reasons other than extra work (not that I mind the learning experience!) -- (1) that AIGLX is really the more advanced and complete technology (2) that ATI will be working to improve support for AIGLX, but who knows how long that might take.
I have no experience with XGL nor recompiling Xorg, so it looks like it will be a fair amount of work. I don't know enough yet but maybe it is possible to have AIGLX and XGL on one system? That'd be perfect. So, I'll see how it goes, I think it would be good if I released what I have done as wNOP1.1
Okay, hope you all get great Christmas presents,
tom
Posted: Wed 26 Dec 2007, 17:57
by Caneri
Hi Thomas,
check your email...in case you see this post first.
Eric
Posted: Wed 26 Dec 2007, 19:39
by tombh
wNOP version 0.2 now available --
visit the thread here.
Posted: Thu 27 Dec 2007, 05:19
by floborg
tombh wrote:
PS. You don't have to do this but just out of interest what does
return after those errors?
Just wondering how far compiz gets? Do the window borders disappear? Does holding ALT to drag a window work?
tom
After starting up, selecting Compiz from the wizard, installing the pet, and then restarting X, that grep command does nothing after neither the regular compiz-manager command nor the skip checks command. Further, the window borders disappear after running the skip checks command.
Posted: Fri 28 Dec 2007, 12:55
by tombh
Thanks floborg,
Yeah doesn't appear to be any life at all then in Compiz-Fusion when you run it. That grep command just sees if it is a running process, which it appears it isn't. So I think we can safely say that CF won't run on your card, which is a shame, but we've learnt a lot. Thanks again