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Posted: Thu 11 Sep 2014, 01:04
by vtpup
This is about as far as I'm going to get at this point. I'm pretty sure there are solutions, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to get there from here.
Maybe someone else can take it further.
Posted: Thu 11 Sep 2014, 01:48
by perdido
Posted: Thu 11 Sep 2014, 17:13
by vtpup
Okay perdido, thanks. Well guess I'll try to compile my first kernel then and see what happens.
Posted: Thu 11 Sep 2014, 17:22
by sunburnt
Suggestion; Try using DebianDog as it`s truly pure Debian and the .deb will work.
Saintless and Fredx have done an excellent job making it very Puppy like.
And it overcomes many of Puppys problems and will use Precise SFS files.
Posted: Thu 11 Sep 2014, 20:36
by Flash
How about a link from where DebianDog can be downloaded?
Posted: Fri 12 Sep 2014, 16:47
by vtpup
Hi sunburnt -- would debian dog run well on an older computer with limited RAM resources and a P3 processor like the Thinkpad 600E?
And second would it run on that same computer with a version of LinuxCNC?
Remember, the reason for picking a puppy Lucid and not Precise is because no Linuxcnc binary was created for Precise, while it was for Lucid.
There is in existence a Debian LiveCD for LinuxCNC. But the Debian (latest) LiveCD ISO of LinuxCNC is 1.1 Gig.in size
Since it can't be installed via LiveCD (needs DVD) and many older bios's can't boot through USB, it is difficult to go the LiveCD method to test it out on an older machine, or install it. LinucCNC ISOs have more than doubled in size recntly since going to ver. 2.6 from ver 2.5 and changing from Ubuntu to Debian.
I was hoping we could go in the opposite direction and Puppy style, with a very low overhead, fast, small liveCD for a dedicated control machine using older hardware.
Posted: Fri 12 Sep 2014, 18:56
by sunburnt
vtpup; I understand your desire for a very small distro for older equipment.
I have an old Celeron box, perfect for a CNC controller, won`t do much else.
Here`s the forum thread for DebianDog, it`s the same size as most Puppies.
Talk to Saintless ( Toni ) and see if he has any suggestions.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 003#799003
.
Posted: Fri 12 Sep 2014, 21:51
by Les Kerf
vtpup wrote: ...
Since it can't be installed via LiveCD (needs DVD) and many older bios's can't boot through USB, it is difficult to go the LiveCD method to test it out on an older machine, or install it...
The Plop bootloader may allow your older machine to boot from a USB stick.
Agreed that using Puppy would be preferable
Les
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 00:08
by vtpup
Sunburnt thanks for the lnk, but it doesn't seem like it's likely built on the right kernel for LinuxCNC, which seems to be very exacting in its requirements. Unless I'm not uunderstanding something (very likely!)
Thanks Les Kerf I'll look into Plop, since thet would be handy to have.
But I don't think I will be using it for the 1.1 gig Debian LinuxCNC distribution, since the TP 600E has 290 megs of available memory at present.
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 00:14
by vtpup
The proper way to do this would be to compile the proper kernel to match the Ubuntu 8.04 or 10.04 LinuxCNC/Ubuntu binaries, and then build a puppy from the appropriate Ubuntu repositories on that kernel using Woof. I'm tempted to try, but I have never done either before, and I bet there are special problems integrating Puppy and LinCNC along the way as well.
I might try, but it would take me awhile to study everything and learn it. Not somethng that's going to appear here quickly, as I had hoped byt combining a RT kernel and Lupu. I hadn't realized how specific the kernel requirement had to be.
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 01:46
by sunburnt
Makes you wonder what the heck is so special about the kernel needs.?
All it does is read G/M code script and operate a parallel or usb port.
I don`t see that there`s any fancy drivers. Maybe a trig. module ( doubt it ).?
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 02:17
by vtpup
sunburnt, likewise I was wondering if there is a too simple filter/trap that just aborts to the wrong kernel error mesage before even trying to start the program.
This is one reason I was asking about just changing the name of the kernel, to fool it into thinking the kernel matched and then and see if it runs.
I don't know what is tested to determine a kernel's identity.
I could swear I once read here in the forums something about changing the name to get something to run, but haven't been able to find it.
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 05:56
by saintless
Just checking the control file with dependencies for linuxcnc package:
Code: Select all
Depends: libart-2.0-2 (>= 2.3.17), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libboost-python1.49.0 (>= 1.49.0-1), libc6 (>= 2.7),
libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.9.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0),
libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libglu1-mesa | libglu1, libgnomecanvas2-0 (>= 2.11.1),
libgnomeprint2.2-0 (>= 2.17.0), libgnomeprintui2.2-0 (>= 2.17.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libice6 (>= 1:1.0.0),
libmodbus5 (>= 3.0.2), libncurses5 (>= 5.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpython2.7 (>= 2.7),
libreadline6 (>= 6.0), libsm6, libstdc++6 (>= 4.6), libtinfo5, libusb-1.0-0 (>= 2:1.0.8), libx11-6, libxaw7, libxext6,
libxft2 (>> 2.1.1), libxinerama1, libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), libxmu6, libxss1, libxt6, tk8.5 (>= 8.5.0), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4),
linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae, rtai-modules-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae, tcl8.5, bwidget (>= 1.7),
libtk-img (>= 1.13), python (>= 2.7), python (<< 2.8), python-support (>= 0.90.0), python2.7-tk, python2.7-gnome2 | python-gnome2,
python2.7-glade2 | python-glade2, python2.7-numpy | python-numpy, python2.7-imaging | python-imaging, python2.7-imaging-tk
| python-imaging-tk, python-gtksourceview2, python-vte, python-gst0.10, python-xlib, python-gtkglext1, python-configobj,
tclreadline, bc, procps, psmisc, module-init-tools | kmod
Most of the dependencies will depend on other missing packages. Wish you luck fixing them manually in Puppy.
I don't think you can cheat the kernel name successful for linuxcnc. The important package for linuxcnc 2.5 and 2.6 is
rtai-modules-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae. It seems to be a set of extra .ko modules loaded after starting linuxcnc depending of the program current settings. It is located in /usr directory and will work only with specific kernel. But I never tested linuxcnc so maybe I'm wrong.
Quick test shows normal gzip compressed module that works fast and well on 600Mhz processor and 128Mb RAM + SWAP partition including all linuxcnc dependencies is possible. The iso should be less than 230Mb. Sorry, it will be Debian - not Puppy.
If you can't make it work in Puppy feel free to write in the thread Sunburnt pointed.
The kernel 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae is not a big problem and seems to me you have enough experience to fix potential problems for linuxcnc package if there are any. Anyway it will be much easier to fix any problem in debian system.
BTW plop boot manager will work for you to boot 1.1Gb debian live cd from usb. You can make plop floppy disk or plop CD. I use plop a lot with very old P-II computers from floppy and usb boot works fine.
Toni
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 08:28
by saintless
Edit: The first iso removed. Uploaded second version. Read here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 383#799383
Anyway I already have the test module. Just builded
DebianDog-Jwm-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae.iso for testing. Maybe it will help you solve some problem in Puppy.
Temporary link (will be available for download few weeks):
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/ ... 86-pae.iso
md5sum f056544a9662e05a5f769364a74416b3
Start the program by typing
linuxcnc in terminal. Starts successful only in parport diagnostic settings for me. I have no idea how to test it.
Do not use remasterdog and remastercow scripts because they will zerosize all files in /usr/share/doc but linuxcnc configuration files are there. This small conflict between keeping the smallest possible size while remstering the system and linuxcnc configuration files location is easy to fix. The important thing for the moment is to know if linuxcnc is fully functional.
I do not plan to work further on this iso. If you find it useful and works for you I will try help you fixing any problems and make it smaller and faster.
More information how to use save file/directory here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... b9a#774456
And the main thread:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=93225
Edit: The iso reuploaded. I forgot to remove something from initrd1.xz. It was 7,5Mb bigger than we need. The previous iso works the same way. It just was 7,5 Mb bigger because the unneeded files.
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 16:15
by Revolverve
saintless,
That was fast work! Bravo! It does boot ok here. No cnc or breakout board to test it right now here and sadly no time to hook it at the job's cnc too ,now... but will give it a try for sure later.
Uploaded ,DebianDogrtai :
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 16:31
by vtpup
Thanks so much saintless!
It's running, but sim isn't working yet.
right now I'm missing modules:
hal_lib
rtapi
rtai_math
rtai_sched
rtai_hal
ps, I will be able to test in sim and all the way up to a working mill, and have the time to do it.
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 17:28
by vtpup
Code: Select all
root@debian:~# linuxcnc
LINUXCNC - 2.6.3-11-gb38797a
Machine configuration directory is '/usr/share/doc/linuxcnc/examples/sample-configs/sim/axis'
Machine configuration file is 'gantry.ini'
Starting LinuxCNC...
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted
Realtime system did not load
Shutting down and cleaning up LinuxCNC...
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
RTAPI: Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB.
This can cause the error 'could not open shared memory'.
For more information, see
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?LockedMemory
/usr/bin/linuxcnc: line 498: 3168 Segmentation fault $HALCMD stop
3. Checking the RealTime subsystem
LinuxCNC uses a RealTime operating system in order to ensure precise timing of i/o signals and trajectory calculations. Error messages like one of the following may indicate that the realtime operating system is unreachable:
Can't write to /dev/rtai_shm - aborting
RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory
ERROR: Could not load 'rtapi'
insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.12.6-magma/rtai/rtai_up.ko':
-1 Operation not permitted
A script is provided with LinuxCNC to load and unload all the realtime modules, and is much quicker for troubleshooting than starting and stopping all of them individually. To use it, type:
/etc/init.d/realtime
Code: Select all
root@debian:~# /etc/init.d/realtime start
Error: could not insert module /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/rtai_hal.ko: Operation not permitted
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 17:35
by saintless
vtpup wrote:right now I'm missing modules:
hal_lib
rtapi
rtai_math
rtai_sched
rtai_hal
This is strange. I don't get such message. I wonder if the kernel is not fully compatible with your hardware? Maybe older rtai-kernel is needed?
All modules from your list are available incide /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules and /usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae/modules/linuxcnc
The kernel and rtai-modules and some firmware packages are manually added from 1.1Gb debian-linuxcnc-live-cd, but all postinstall scripts are executed and dpkg database is cheated in proper way to prevent further problems.
Linuxcnc is installed with apt-get and all dependencies are configured from the system.
When you and Revolverve make more tests I will try to help fixing the problems.
Edit: I see now your previous post, Vtpup. I will check later what message I get on my hardware.
Toni
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 17:40
by vtpup
Sorry Tony I edited the post a couple times to add more information before I saw you had replied.
Update:
The modules are present -- I just checked through xfe. So that's not the problem then. I will add the full error messages I got on xterm next post....
Posted: Sat 13 Sep 2014, 17:44
by sunburnt
I noticed the rtai_math module, probably a trig package.
I`m guessing that the rtai is the custom CNC library that is LinuxCNC.