I turned off my Windows machine today.

[Ted Dog]

grub4dos is a sorry old China plot to take over the computers at its boot. but that is just my harebrained theory, but read the embedded docs and the original Chinese via translator


Glad you do not want to go down GrubYourDos mode. I use a booting USB that can boot without messing with windows boot on main harddrive.

here is the grub booting (EFI loader)

Code: Select all

insmod png
background_image /fatdog.png
set timeout=10

menuentry "Start slitaz-rolling-core64.iso" {
loopback loop0  /slitaz-rolling-core64.iso
linux (loop0)/boot/vmlinuz-3.2.53-slitaz64 rw root=/dev/null autologin
initrd (loop0)/boot/rootfs.gz
}

menuentry "Quirky 6.96 (full install on sda3)" {
  linux (hd0,msdos3)/boot/vmlinuz root=append root=/dev/sda3 rootwait rw
}

menuentry "Start Fatdog64-631.iso" {
loopback loop0  /Fatdog64-631.iso
linux (loop0)/vmlinuz savefile=direct:multi:sda3 waitdev=4
initrd (loop0)/initrd
}

menuentry "Start Fatdog64-631.iso simple" {
loopback loop0  /Fatdog64-631.iso
linux (loop0)/vmlinuz waitdev=4
initrd (loop0)/initrd
}
menuentry "Start Fatdog64-700b2.iso -BETA simple" {
loopback loop0  /Fatdog64-700b2.iso
linux (loop0)/vmlinuz  waitdev=3
initrd (loop0)/initrd
}
menuentry "Start Fatdog64-700b2.iso -BETA" {
loopback loop0  /Fatdog64-700b2.iso
linux (loop0)/vmlinuz base2ram=expand waitdev=4
initrd (loop0)/initrd
}
menuentry "Start unicorn-6.2.1.91.iso -BETA VERY SLOW BOOT" {
loopback loop0  /unicorn-6.2.1.91.iso
linux (loop0)/vmlinuz

}

menuentry "---" { true; }
menuentry "Firmware configuration" {
	fwsetup
}
menuentry "Shutdown" {
	halt
}
menuentry "Reboot" {
	reboot
}

AND then syslinux

Code: Select all

default quirky
display boot.msg
prompt 1
timeout 50

F1 boot.msg
F2 help.msg

label quirky
kernel vmlinuz
append root=PARTUUID=c3a75f58-02 rootwait rw

label A
kernel vmlinuz
append root=/dev/sda3 rootwait rw

label B
kernel vmlinuz
append root=/dev/sdb3 rootwait rw

label Q
  kernel vmlinuz 
append root=PARTUUID=00010500-03 rootwait rw

On the same flashdrive both in same fat partition.

[starhawk]

grub4dos is a sorry old China plot to take over the computers at its boot.

In that case, I'm glad that the Chinese are helping us folks in the US even with things that you /can't/ buy at Walmart (or on eBay)

[bobc]

Thanks, teddog, thats quite helpful.

Another solution would be to create a boot partition at the bottom of each drive, but thats a huge amount of work,because the drives have lots of stuff and all primary partition slots are used, meaning backups and restores would be needed unless I want to throw caution to the wind,etc.

So,what I did is to find 4 gineua pig windows machines. Two are 98SE, and two are XP. And I'm burning a CD-R of Slacko 5.7.0 because some of them might not be able to read/boot from DVD's. Not sure if any can boot from USB,and since the USB's are so flaky with linux here lately, I'll try the CD route first.

Plan is to boot, use gparted, do full install to hard drive,then try to chroot into it, install grub2, and do the usual grub stuff, and reboot into Slacko.

If I lose a drive trying, its an old one that isn't very important.

PS: all 4 machines failed at running Slacko. 2 were unable to boot it, and run it somewhat, but I wasn't able to install it on any of them. The 4th came the closest, but its drives are fast SCSI and it runs like a wild thing for a 17 yr old computer,but it can't be read or partitioned by gparted and the USB isn't working either. I'm thinking about stealing an IDE drive from another box for it to use, or maybe I can find drivers for the Adaptec 2940U2/U2W in it. I see that neither the SCSI nor USB show any modules attached. I have an even faster Adaptec controller for it and a screaming fast 10,000 RPM Cheetah I could put in it,but I doubt that will help at all. Exidently I need an aic7xxx module to load for it.

[mikeb]

bootlace.com /dev/sda
adds the grub4dos bootloader.

Then add grldr to a partition and a menu.lst using grub syntax ...done...not that hard really... perhaps you experienced someone's bash script instead as there not much that can go wrong with this process.

I did this when I had little linux experience... indeed you can always use say windows boot loader and add an entry or simply replace ntldr/bootmgr.

This stuff is painfully easy really if approached without bias...after all ANY boot loader needs to do similar things and peeing around with boot sectors to me is obsolete stuff.

mike

[bobc]

So what I did is to order a 32gb super fast SATA SSD drive to boot off of and hold the Linux OS, Linux applications, and a swap partition.

Today installed a big, fast 7200 rpm SATA drive as the laptop's 2nd drive after shrinkng the Windows partitions down to where I could fit them as well as Manjaro, Slacko, antiX and a swap partition on the 1st drive and removed the 2nd. I will maintain copies of those linux partitions on the hard drive, and save my data files to a partition accessible by all on the hard drive.

So, right now, sda is still a physical hard drive, and sdb is the big, fast new one, and when the SSD arrives, I'll just load it from the copies of the sda drive on sdb, and it will be good to go

My guess is that will run super fast when almost everything being opened is coming in at 450 mb/s...

[starhawk]

If using grub4dos, when you get the new SSD in there, you really want to add the command pmedia=ataflash on the kernel line of any Puppy installs on there

For example --

Code: Select all

kernel /vmlinuz    pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck

This tells Puppy it's not on a 'real' / platter-style drive any more, which will make both Puppy and the drive live happier, longer lives.

(I don't know how bootloaders *other* than grub4dos handle that, because I don't use them but maybe others can help with that?)

[bobc]

Got the SSD, no troubles installing it or getting everything copied to it, It boot the 3 linux distros just fine but windows won't boot anymore.

Not confident I can run on just the one drive + the SSD. Disk space is pretty tight on one drive.

[starhawk]

Do please remind me what version of Windows you're using?

[bobc]

Its Windows Vista, 64 bit version, came with my HP Pavilion dv9917d Notebook PC.

I'm getting an error from Windows Boot Manager, "Windows failed to start", and it wants me to insert the Windows Installation CD and run the repair. I only have the HP Cd's, and have never had much success with it repairing anything. I am able to reload from them, but that is a multiday process by the time you do the install, then updates, then get and install the apps and then copy the data.

The detail of the error is:
file \Windows\System32\winload.exe
status 0xC000000e
Selected entry could not be loaded because the application is missing or corrupt.

I did some hunting and found some messages relating to a hidden BCD file in the boot directory, and needing to edit that file, the instructions for which look terrible to try to key in.

I used gparted to copy and paste the windows partitions from the old drive to the new, and I guess I would probably be better off if I could find a free program that could copy and paste the MBR as well, but not sure if that can be done from one drive to another, or if it would actually work at all, given that my opinion is that my real problem is a Microsoft copy protection scheme.

Maybe its a blessing that I needed to get into windows this soon to find that I couldn't. To be honest, I'm surprised I didn't think to test that sooner. I should have. I think the problem is really one of moving Windows Vista 64 to a new drive, but unfortunately it has huge ramifications for moving to linux as well.

[starhawk]

Were it me I'd bite the bullet and reinstall.

Can't stand Vista, tho -- in my case it would be XP (on a netless system) or W7...

[bobc]

Another part of the problem is that I don't have room on the SSD for Windows, and certainly the HP software isn't going to allow me to reload Windows to the second drive, so that means I'm going to be forced either way to make the SSD the 2nd drive so Windows can be on the 1st drive where it expects to be.

I suppose I have nothing to lose swapping the drives around and trying the windows repair on the new drive, because as it sits, I need to go back to the original Windows drive, anyway to be able to boot windows.

[mikeb]

You may need easy BCD .... only pain is you need windows to run it...but XP can be used to do it (usb install is handy for this). .net needed..version 2 will do.

Common problem is if you have moved things around the windows boot manager drive info is no longer valid and easyBCD with simply update it to where windows is now seen to be.
This sounds like the problem you are having.

Mike

[bobc]

I used easy bcd from the original vista drive to create a boot on the new drive that it didn't think was there. It at least partially worked because I'm able to boot the drive, but it has problems still with services not running that I'm still trying to fix. Assuming I get it fixed, I'll put the SSD in the 2nd drive bay and have the MBR point to it if I can get that working.

Thanks for the suggestion...

[bobc]

I got it running. Once I had windows working again, I installed the SSD drive in the 2nd drive bay. Then I booted into windows again to make sure it was still ok. Then I booted from my slacko 5.7.0 cd

So my main drive is /dev/sda and my main slacko on SSD is /dev/sdb5

from the terminal booted from cd

Code: Select all

cd /mnt
mkdir sdb5
cd /mnt/sdb5
mount -t proc proc /mnt/sdb5/proc
mount -t sysfs sys /mnt/sdb5/sys
mount -o bind /dev /mnt/sdb5/dev
mount -t devpts pts /mnt/sdb5/dev/pts/
chroot /mnt/sdb5

grub-install --recheck /dev/sda
update-grub
exit
exit

reboot from menu and remove cd

The grub update had many troubles, but then I edited the /boot/grub/grub.cfg and made a copy of it there to use whenever i need to update grub again

Please note that since I never got bindings for slacko I don't actually know the mountings were correct, and I didn't try downloading and installing grub2 from salix that way, as it was already installed on my slacko partition. I should learn how to download and install it by hand just in case. Anyway, it worked. Not pretty, but it did work.

And btw, if anyone knows the CORRECT mountings to chroot it, it would be real nice if you could post and explain them so when someone else is searching, they will find it here

WHEW!

[mikeb]

Ah so sounds like sort of happy now.....

Grub2.... sorry won't touch it with next doors.... have you noticed how much it is like windows boot system now.... imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

Vista...sorry its such a behemoth... you might like to treat yourself to 7 at some point...best of the recent bunch. If not cluttered, runs not far off a well set up XP and does not seem to need antivirus just remove IE/express/media player/messenger ... it let me do that.

mike

[bobc]

Yes, I'm sitting here typing on Slacko. That's as big a vote as you can get in my book. I have sat here at least a year trying distros and never getting any to where I could actually sit here and use it day to day, always ending up using the windows machine to rescue my failed linux attempts. And I do appreciate the help from yourself and others that enabled me to get this far

Yes, Vista is a pig, but its what came with the machines, and I'm certainly can't pay to upgrade them. The Vista machines are 8 years old now, and not worth putting more than $50 or max $75 into, I'd say. For the big fast drive and SSD combined I spent about $75. Hopefully that will make this machine useful for a few more years.

Booting and running from the SSD, my tweaked Slacko 5.7.0 is booting in 15 seconds from pressing enter on the grub2 menu. Its using 26 mb of memory if I have the pinboard off, or 31 mb with it on, and there are no delays at all that I notice, except when I bring up chromium with 4 windows and 50 tabs spread between them. With all those tabs up I'm using about 40% of CPU and RAM, and everything runs lickety split

Under Windows, the performance doing the same exact screens was utterly abysmal, with a 5 to 10 minute boot time and typical delays once things were up and running of 30 seconds to 5 or 10 minutes to do anything useful, and that was with no viruses or malware, and the exact same wifi connect as Slacko is using.

To switch to grub4dos, the problem around here is finding a windows machine that still runs well that can be experimented with, that doesn't have dire ramifications if it can no longer boot windows. It takes a lot of time and effort to reload a Vista machine, like 3 or 4 days to do it right, or even a few hours to do a terrible, quicky job, that you could do just to see if it would boot.

All the linux partitions except antiX, Manjaro, and Slacko 5.7.0 are non-critical at this point. I'm tired after trying 30 to 50 variations of distros getting something to run well for me. I used up 50 dvd's and 25 cd's trying. It isn't that the others are bad. And I learned quite a lot trying to make them work, but each has had some issue or issues that kept me from wanting to bet the farm on them.

Legacy grub has lost many systems on me, but IIRC, I think its lost the linux ones, not the windows ones. At the time I was a lot less linux savvy, so if it didn't generate the lines needed to boot any particular partition, I was toast and had no chance of getting it booted unless I went and begged for help like here, or got lucky searching and guessing. I noticed that grub2 at least found operating systems and tried to guess what they were and tried to guess how to boot them, where legacy grub missed them entirely.

Grub for DOS pulled a similar stunt last time I tried it. Losing access to a bunch of partitions is no joke. You have no hope of getting them back unless you know what to type in to boot each of them, and that was definitely beyond my linux skill level, then.

Do I "like" grub2? No. My review summary would read "The complexity is atrocious to produce a confusing result. But at least it seems to find the operating systems and takes a reasonable guess how to boot them."

IMO, grub2 is not really designed well. The 40_custom thing getting inserted at the end is no good at all. If anything, those manual overrides should be first on the list, or at least 2nd after the primary OS that is creating the grub.cfg, or inserted where they belong sequentially by partition location, perhaps with the generated code for the same partition off an advanced submenu, but definitely putting 40_custom at the end is a goof!

And I don't like how grub2 mis-identifies almost everything, caused mostly I'd say because the distros couldn't agree on what the menu should say for each OS, and where the update-grub program should find that text. I have now gotten around that on my systems by looking at the os-prober code and cheating by putiing things like "slackware-version" files with what I want displayed on the menu in them.

Maybe I need to find a sacrificial machine, load it with windows and some typical linux flavors, and try grub4dos, and see if I can learn to control it, knowing what I know now.

[mikeb]

Okies

well I never use any grub wizards...scripts or wot not.

To me it centres around the menu.lst and seems like its better if YOU know where things are and what they want rather than some script trying to guess it.

eg to boot xp its

Code: Select all

title XP
chainloader (hd0,0)/ntldr

that boots ntldr on the first partition of the first drive...
works equally well for vista or 7...you just use say
chainloader (hd0,1)/bootmgr

that would boot it on the second partition of the first hard drive.
getting familiar with its basic syntax is all thats needed... you are possibly more familiar with say puppys grub entry with kernel and initrd...
eg

Code: Select all

title Puppy 415
kernel (hd0,2)/boot/vmlinuz 
initrd (hd0,2)/boot/initrd.gz

boots puppy on the third partition on drive one and the boot files are in the folder /boot...all standard unix path usage.

There are other commands thatcan 'autodetect' where things are... I tend to use hard coded paths.
if you have grub4dos anywhere at the boot screen you can hit 'c' and then help lists all its commands...its like a mini bash.

For grub4dos itself you have the file grldr...just another bootloader like ntldr... bootlace.com /dev/sda adds the mbr...it will not touch the partition table so nothing will move and affect say windows vista.
If mbr altering make you wary then you could have the vista mbr and rename grldr to bootmgr...and bootmgr to something else and use that in the menu.

Just some pointers..but I find its much better to get to know these things than rely on someone else's hope for the best wizardry.

What about XP... if there is driver support thats going to be way faster than vista.

mike

[bobc]

I don't have copies of xp or vista that are generic, so they only can load of the machines they came with, so I need to leave them alone. The critical machine and its backup are HP dv9700 17" laptops that came with Vista. I am hoping only to need to use Vista infrequently anyway. I almost never use xp at all, except for when connected to a robot that won't run on Vista.

I do understand that any of these boot loaders could work if I was to spend the time to hand code menus for them for each machine, but with 7 to 15 OS's on each machine and 5 of 8 that get used a lot, it sounds a lot like "work", and I would rather have a tool that builds it correctly for me. I seem to test a lot of new distro code and always seem to be tinkering with desktop setups trying to create an optimally efficient one.

Manjaro's grub2 has performed that function pretty well, but for the slower, memory poor, older machines, its very slow to come up, etc. I also hate to be wasting 5 gb of SSD for Manjaro if I'm not running it normally.

Anyway I still have the SCSI problem with aic7xxx module being missing, and it can't see the hard drives at all, so I have one machine that can't run Slacko other than from the CD. That should be my next priority. It runs fine with most other distros I've tried, so I know its doable, but is a long jump for someone with my limited linux experience.

LOL, but the good news is this message is being typed in Chromium on Slacko, booting now from Salix's grub2 package installed on Slacko, so I'm alive and doing reasonably well.

[mikeb]

Okies...well sounds like you have a lot of work as it is...perhaps a little rationalization when you get chance

regards

Mike

[bobc]

I admit that for the most part, I actually know enough now that I COULD succeed at setting up grub legacy or grub4dos or even learn to create lilo menus by hand, but it sort of seems silly when grub2 exists.

I found out this morning about "/etc/lsb-release", where 1 minute of effort turns a distro into an grub2 identifiable menu option. I also would do well to learn a better way to use the idea of a boot partition to my advantage.

What I meant was that to do mundane repetitive things manually, to me feels like work. Anyway, to me, finding ways to make new things work or make old ones work better is FUN when its accomplished.

The kernel thing is a very major obstacle mentally for me, but its something I do want to learn. Thus far I haven't been able to get up the gumption to even attempt it.

As for rationalization, I'm sorry I didn't understand what you meant.