(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Caneri wrote:This is a bit older but it's what was used to do xdelta for some of the people.

Unfortunately this one fails the md5sum check and also won't unpack.

hi whodo,

ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...

hope it works

aragon

Béèm wrote:Maybe confusing for newbees who go from a2 to a3.

I understand your point, my friend, but newbees are not the intended focus for alpha releases. These are strictly for the literati who understand what is required in a testing regimen. I abhor the practice of some of the majors of publicly releasing alphas and betas through Distrowatch for that same reason. It just doesn't make good sense. Wait for the Release Candidate stage to involve newbees in testing IMHO.

Sure newbees are welcome to test and help debug at any stage if they feel they'd like to and can accept the consequences of being at the bleeding edge, but there are good reasons why I don't want to change the version numbers to include alphas when building from Unleashed. It would add just another level of complexity and confusion to the build process for me. I'm struggling as it is!

aragon wrote:ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...hope it works

Thanks aragon.

@Béèm and smokey01 - notecase is 600kb+ and of considerably less interest and appeal than Icewm which is slightly smaller. That's the trade-off I'm dealing with at the moment. Notecase will still be in the official PETget repository, and I'll revisit its inclusion early in the beta phase when I know better where we stand with CUPS which will push us to the limit of our 100Mb self-imposed ceiling.

zigbert wrote:I can be totally against his (Warren's) choice of putting in Icewm, but I will surely respect his decision.

What a boring world it would be if we all agreed about everything!

zigbert wrote:I thought Puppys intention is to use the tiniest working alternative.
- I'm NOT against Icewm, but think it fits better as an installable package.

Puppy always has been a compromise between function and size. If size were the overriding factor we would all use DSL - it now runs on JWM too!

Puppy has always tried to offer maximum possible functionality in minimum reasonable size and often that involves offering choices to the user base. That is why Icewm is in this release. It may not be in another release or it may eventually replace JWM; who knows. For now the choice is important IMHO.

zigbert wrote:Whatever decision is made for Puppy 4.2, we will have a brilliant OS. It will be something much better than Puppy 4.12.

Life as a benevolent dictator can be tough at times. The rewards only come when most people finally recognise that the choices you made, whether they agreed with them or not, were made with the best interest of the whole community at heart. That's where the "benevolent" part kicks in.

I'm sure no Barry Kauler - far from it - but I do appreciate the wonderful gift he has given us, and continues to give through the creation of woof; an operating system that frees us from the greedy demands of the bloatware world while still giving us most of the functionality we crave!

Your pwidgets are yet another step in the direction of immortality for Puppy, IMHO, Sigmund. As far as I'm concerned, agreement is overrated and often counterproductive. Collaboration and cooperation are not. How much fun would you have had with Pwidgets if you had to satisfy the whims of every potential user? Just a rhetorical question - I already know the answer, believe me!

WhoDo wrote:It would add just another level of complexity and confusion to the build process for me. I'm struggling as it is!

OK, I am a warned man now and change the way I used to do.

@Warren,

There is no md5sum for this xdelta package..the other file is a howto from tombh...lol

Mine did install..hmmm..I still talk to Tom..I'll ask him if there's a solid xdelta package. On the other hand Pizzasgood and a few others used it as well...

I'll make a md5.txt file for it to see if there's a problem and post it here.

Eric

zigbert wrote:- Jwm is below 100 kb including all configuration script (guis) and extensions.

- Icewm is 6 times bigger and does the same job as Jwm.

Except that JWM is ugly to mediocre-looking at best, and changing themes isn't quite as easy as possible; IceWM, with the right themes, is absolutely beautiful, and changing themes is as easy as possible. Looks aren't everything, or even the most important thing, but they're still very important for (1) people getting their first impression of Puppy, (2) many people who use Puppy a lot every day, and (3) probably a lot of other people too. You're complaining about a mere half a megabyte for built-in access to an almost endless abundance of great-looking desktop effects to please almost every taste. Small is beautiful, but even smaller isn't necessarily even more beautiful, and Puppy without IceWM built in would be much less beautiful.

- As far as I know we do not have the same configuration guis for Icewm as Jwm.

Now that Puppy 4.2 is going to have Tcl/Tk and Gnocl, configuration GUIs with the preferred GTK+ 2.0 look will be pretty easy to produce. Let's hear about some window-manager features people want to configure through a GUI that they can't yet with IceWM.

- Icewm has better theme support, but clever hands on this forum has made Jwm look ok (again my opinion).

I agree. It looks OK (at best), but that's about the best you can say. IceWM can look superb.

- I thought Puppys intention is to use the tiniest working alternative.

If that were uniformly true, AbiWord would have been dumped in favor of TextMaker 2002, which (at least in my experience) actually works better than AbiWord. More to the point, "working" doesn't mean quite the same thing for a window manager as it does for, say, a compiler, a script interpreter, or even an e-mail manager, an editor, or a console. People don't demand that rxvt must be good-looking, but good looks are a large part of what makes a window manager "work" really well in the eyes (literally) of users.

BUT dearest friends. Whatever decision is made for Puppy 4.2, we will have a brilliant OS.

Hear, hear!

WhoDo wrote:

aragon wrote:ok look at this, is the actual one, but completely untested...hope it works

Thanks aragon.

@Béèm and smokey01 - notecase is 600kb+ and of considerably less interest and appeal than Icewm which is slightly smaller. That's the trade-off I'm dealing with at the moment. Notecase will still be in the official PETget repository, and I'll revisit its inclusion early in the beta phase when I know better where we stand with CUPS which will push us to the limit of our 100Mb self-imposed ceiling.

I tend to agree with Zigbert. JWM is more 'sexier' now and I find that icewm doesn't have much more to offer. I would rather choose for Gnome then.
I prefer to have nice applications but it's your call and let's see what the future brings. Thanks for the explication anyway.

Let me end with a word of praise.
Although I only spend a couple of hours, I find considerable increase in performance for pmount and rox.

Caneri wrote:Mine did install..hmmm..I still talk to Tom..I'll ask him if there's a solid xdelta package. On the other hand Pizzasgood and a few others used it as well...

Could easily have been a bad download. I haven't had time to check. In the meantime aragon has uploaded v3.0u in .pet format so I've added that to the tree. We'll see how it builds. Thanks eric.

Cool...ty Warren and aragon for your work...well done!

Eric

Ok, guys, it's the last call for inclusions in Alpha4. I'm going out to lunch with my family and when I come back in around 4-5 hours I'll be building and testing Alpha4 for uploading. I won't be adding anything after that until Alpha4 has been uploaded, tried and tested.

Long lunch eh...maybe a cool drink on such a hot day...for me it's freezing and Saturday night..cripes

Eric

Caneri wrote:Long lunch eh...maybe a cool drink on such a hot day...for me it's freezing and Saturday night..cripes

Long, looonnnnggg lunch complete with a good old Aussie barbeque, lots of nice cold beer and plenty of frollicking and fun. My neice and her boyfriend are up from Sydney to see my new granddaughter and to take my Mother-in-Law back with them for a brief holiday with my brother-in-law and his wife.

Personally I'm staying well out of the sun and in the aircon as long as possible. A cold beer on the inside won't stop you from cooking on the outside! Crank up the central heating, eric!

Hope the fires down that way do not cause you any problems.

G'day,

Ok, guys, it's the last call for inclusions in Alpha4.

Was the initrd modification to allow more than three sfs files to be used in a 4.2 frugal to be included in 4.2?

I tried six sfs in a frugal Alpha3 without success.

David S.

I am sure Warren is enjoying his beer and barbie . . .

I did email him about the multiple SFS and it will be in Alpha4
Prepare your test hats and geek goggles . . .

Removed, now cooled off

amen to that ttuuxxx

I know this is not the place to post a screen shot BUT this my desktop with JWM in 412 with all 420 mods. It speaks for itself how far we have come.

I love icewm too but I'm just thinking about the bloat factor. I know it is a done deal that icewm is in by default now. ( And yes Lobster, that is you in the top right of my screen! )

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