(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

koolie wrote:Maybe we could try and do better here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 521#231521

I would suggest that a proper forum requires:


A quality hosting site with proper defences, and adequate bandwidth to cope with spidering and external hotlinking, running unadulterated software that is up to the task.
A set of guidelines as to what is inappropriate behaviour/posting, and application of those guidelines.
An administrator who is interested in administering.
Moderators who are interested in moderating.
All images to be hosted offsite.
A section at the bottom of the main page, invisible to "search" and "view recent posts", and unable to be edited or replied-to, where all inappropriate posts are immediately relocated to for 24hrs max, pending deletion.
Habitual offenders to have all thier previous posts deleted after being issued with appropriate warnings.
New members be unable to post URLs or mailtos until they have made 50 acceptable posts.

How many of the above do we have currently, would you say?
_________________

You've underscored one of my points by starting yet another thread for the same theme. I don't see how such fragmentation benefits discussion, quite the contrary. Why should the discussion be better continued there than here?

You raise some interesting questions, which merit a much more detailed discussion than I have time for right now. Unfortunately, I lost an hour's worth of input earlier because I had forgotten to remove my [INSERT] key after testing the Seamonkey glitch for Sit Heel Speak last night. And I don't have another hour to spare right now.

However, just to address your post globally, if briefly.

Problem #1 is defining the scope of discussion.

For example,. "forum" is used for the entire structure of the publicly accessible bbs, as well as for specific threads.

Discussion of strictly structural problems of access, input, searchability, etc. would be better addressed in a separate technical thread, where they will not become submerged by tidal waves of lengthy theoretical and sociological, and philosophical debate.

Secondly, the issue of moderator and administrator "interest" is an issue that can really only be addressed with the full co-operation and participation of the moderators and administrator.

I agree that there are serious issues to be addressed, but there is no point in debating such issues unless those who have the power to address complaints and implement suggestions for improvement give some credible assurances that they are committed to the process.

It's not easy to imagine, given the present state of the board, how such assurances could be made persuasive, but perhaps a good start would be if the moderators opened such a specific thread such as "moderation issues", and began by individually (ie. not after deciding on a united front) describing how they see their role as moderator, and problems they have in carrying it out, what further powers they think are needed, and what controls on their power they would tolerate.

Then those who are interested might be persuaded to air their views on proper moderator behaviour and functions, and even voice specific complaints. But here you have a catch-22, because anyone who complains about moderation will inevitably be attacked personally by the ever-present, ever-vociferous "my Puppy, my forum, right or wrong - love them or leave them" crew.

And unless such a thread is properly moderated - NOT by deleting posts, but by appropriate public disapproval of ad hominem attacks and off topic rants - thoughtful participants will avoid it like the plague.

As for your rather draconian proposals to remove posts to a shaming spot for 24 hours and then erase them. Why is this necessary, and why for 24 hours? It would mean only those who log on at least once a day know what's being censored. If posts by legitimate users need to be removed, they should certainly be searchable and viewable in some archive, so that everyone can see for themselves whether the removal was justified.

The other proposal, to give those with less than 50 "acceptable" posts fifth class status (after the administrator, the moderators, those who log on at least once a day, and those who already have 50 "accepted" posts - this is guaranteed to drive away the most enthusiastic and potentially most constructive new users.

I regret I don't have time for more right now, but will come back to this later. I hope you will see your way to continuing the discussion here.

OTOH, if you renamed your new thread something like "Forum moderation issues", which I believe is the primary focus of your posting, then I'd be happy to continue the discussion there.

Couple of things administration wise. The forum currently uses phpBB 2.x (not sure of the exact number). The current version of phpBB is phpBB 3.0.4. I've suggested an update in the past. There's several security patches that have been made since the 2.x series.

I agree with something I read in an earlier post about adding a link directly to the Wiki/PuppyLinux.org pages. This is easily done and I can provide the code for it upon request. ( My Puppy Projects forum has a link to the Puppy Linux Home Page)

Also, there has been quite a bit of activity coming from the Italian community, and I noticed that there is no Italian support section on the forum. This might need to be looked into.

Evil20071 wrote:Couple of things administration wise. The forum currently uses phpBB 2.x (not sure of the exact number). The current version of phpBB is phpBB 3.0.4. I've suggested an update in the past. There's several security patches that have been made since the 2.x series.

I agree with something I read in an earlier post about adding a link directly to the Wiki/PuppyLinux.org pages. This is easily done and I can provide the code for it upon request. ( My Puppy Projects forum has a link to the Puppy Linux Home Page)

Please PM John Murga with those suggestions, or with a link to your post. He's the only one who can make those changes.

Also, there has been quite a bit of activity coming from the Italian community, and I noticed that there is no Italian support section on the forum. This might need to be looked into.

One problem with adding a foreign-language section is finding someone to be a moderator, who speaks the language fluently, who's been around the forum for a while, so we can trust him, and is willing to take on a job that's a lot like taking care of a dog.

It would be great if a games section could be implemented.

Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PUPs, n' stuff) » Games

Perhaps?

Sounds good to me. If there are no objections before my next visit to the forum (probably Friday or Saturday) I'll add it then.

Yes!!!! That'll be awesome

Thanks Pizzasgood!

it would be great (for me) to have the "Mark all forums read" option visible when viewing "all posts since last visit"

paul

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=38
That should do it.

Sorry Paul, nothing I can do about that one. It's another one of those "John would need to modify things by hand" items.

I've been thinking about this for some time having seen various complaints pop up around the forum about people being unable to install something because it doesn't work for their version of Puppy and how they'd like different forums for different versions of Puppy.

Perhaps what we could do instead is have topic owners mark which Puppy versions their pet is compatible with.

For example if a certain pet is compatible with Puppy 4xx the owner of the topic could put this sign: 4

If it works but needs tweaking for Puppy 4 they could put: 4

And if it doesn't work full stop as far as they know: 4

Following this color coding one could cover the rest of the series, provided they know how compatible they are. Here's an example with a post I made awhile back.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 514#275514

As it works but needs a tweak in Puppy 2, 3, and 4 all three numbers are in yellow. (Sorry it wasn't the best of examples) As I don't know if it works in the 1xx series, I didn't post the number 1.

At first I was thinking this could just apply to packages, but I realized it could be also used for posts. Posts with advice. Then people could tell whether this piece of advice was applicable for their version.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 302#272302

Of course, this is just a suggestion, so people are free to ignore it, take it, use it, twist it, insult it, (but I'd rather not ) but in any case, if folks chose to adopt it, it would be nice to agree on the colors, numbers, and system so we don't end up with hundreds of different systems all over the forum.

Thanks for reading,
Battleshooter

I like your code idea, although my old eyes can't see that yellow. The trouble is that it's yet one more code-like thing to remember. My brain filled up a long time ago. I manage by decanting a bit off the top now and then to make room for the most important new stuff.

Why not just explicitly state: Works with Puppy 3 series but needs these additions for the 4 series?

hillside wrote:I like your code idea, although my old eyes can't see that yellow. The trouble is that it's yet one more code-like thing to remember. My brain filled up a long time ago. I manage by decanting a bit off the top now and then to make room for the most important new stuff.

Oh ok. If it helps, you could just remember green is good and red is bad-and forget about yellow (Thought it would already be ingrained into some people due to traffic lights )

Why not just explicitly state: Works with Puppy 3 series but needs these additions for the 4 series?

Well I suppose. Maybe I thought it would be simpler. But you do have a point- plain English usually works pretty good in most cases I guess I can be over complex. I think I thought it up cause it could be done pretty quick and a glance would suffice to see if this post related to your series.

Oh, and the over bright yellow, would orange be more readable?

The phpBB search is a difficult even for the experienced.

Also, even though it's posted as a sticky, the majority of newbies don't know about the "wellminded" search. Because people naturally click the search button at the top of the screen, rather than read a forum topic about searching for something by NOT clicking on the button at the top of the screen.

I have a suggestion. Change the hotlink of the search button from http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/search.php to http://wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html

If you really miss the old way, add a second button next to it called "Painful Search" and add the old url.

Seconded. (I don't have the power to do it myself, or I'd have done that a long time ago).

I definitely agree about preserving the real search too, because it does have its uses. Filtering by a specific user or section of the forum in particular.

PG

I am somewhat amazed at the forum search 'capability'

Entering "Searching" as a term in it, gives 741 matches and it's not until p2 that the sticky

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 74&t=29754

shows up

Using Peppy's well-minded search, using "Searching" it is top of the list

Aitch

Aitch, your observation would have been more complete and well-rounded if you had mentioned that the link in it leads eventually to Peppy's well-minded search.

an addition for the forum search script

when searching and received the returned topic list, it shows you what page in the topic you last entered a reply on

regards
scsijon

and another couple just pointed out to me

the ability for the origonal poster to ammend the title with the word [solved] when they are satisfied with replys and then the OP being able to lock a topic closed

scsijon wrote:and another couple just pointed out to me

the ability for the original poster to amend the title with the word [solved] when they are satisfied with replies and then the OP being able to lock a topic closed

Uh, all forum members have always been able to edit their own posts, including the titles. Almost no one ever does it though, so, many threads that were in fact answered don't reflect that in their title. I add (Solved) to the title when I see that the question was answered. However, I don't have time to keep up with every thread.

forum is currently not holding login as well as it does sometimes.

Flash wrote: Uh, all forum members have always been able to edit their own posts, including the titles. Almost no one ever does it though, so, many threads that were in fact answered don't reflect that in their title. I add (Solved) to the title when I see that the question was answered. However, I don't have time to keep up with every thread.

sorry flash, thought the only thing you could do is add a new post subject title, not the actual topic

scsijon

[edit]

ahah, have to go and edit the origonal post to do it, not just via an additional message!
ty