(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

good discussions gents...very interesting.
I'll chime in later but for now some pics of the inverters and cable size.

The cables are closer to 5/8 to 3/4 in size with the plastic insulation.

Eric

average power on the sine wave (at 60hz) is about .606 X peak power. If your cable is rated for 10k Dc and you are pumping AC through it, you'll have a a few extra atoms more than you need to help propagate the electrons....

Aitch wrote:ezeze5000

The tide has turned against CFLs....it seems there's a mercury problem when they break...hoovering up spreads it everywhere...very toxic/carcinogenic......change to LED or ESL

http://epa.gov/cfl/

http://www.ecogeek.org/efficiency/3711

http://www.earth.org.uk/LED-lighting.html

7/11 watt LEDs provide good light levels, but are more focused than ESLs/CFLs, and work best in up/downlighters or reading lights


WE are such energy junkies....just use less!

Aitch

The other problem with CFLs is that they don't "cold start" -- relevant to us in the cold, northern climes.

I put some of the Phillips LED (75W equivalent) in my cold locations. They're pricey, but are basically "instant on" - there is a fraction of a second delay, like many indoor CFLs show - but have no "warm up" time.

Thanks sunburnt, Aitch, RTG, Sylvander, linuxbear , aarf, AND Thom the hillbilly for being interested in this project/thread.

Solar power seems a good path, in my thinking, for earth's future energy needs..at least in the day time. Night-time is for the stored energy in salt based liquid batteries.

I'm storing power on the grid for now until I can use it to heat my house in winter.

This entails a storage of heat in my house.....we will see about the next direction for the project...hopefully more panels Eric

RTG wrote:It's not so much that he will be burning 10kW, it's that in the depths of winter, he might only get an average of 2-4 hours full sunlight/day (NREL shows that November tends to be the worst month, due to general cloudiness).

From looking at Eric's panels, I'd have thought snow coverage would be the biggest problem in winter....?

Eric

I think the salt storage idea is for a different type of solar install

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/ ... r-in-salt/

This site is quite useful.....

http://www.altestore.com/howto/Solar-El ... -Bank/a94/

....although I'd have thought your rig to be configured for high voltage grid tie/inverter rather than battery charging

Also check out thermal solar water tubes, such as this

http://www.solarthermal.com/

or heatpumps

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/res ... -pump/4345

http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2012/02/20/ont ... al-market/

...which has the advantage of still providing heat when it's cold/dark

You are fortunate to have the space [and maybe grants?] to experiment...

Aitch

Hi Aitch,

Night-time is for the stored energy in salt based liquid batteries.

I should have been more clear. The salt based storage is for solar heating with a heat storage chamber (aka battery) based on salt that turns gelatinous when cold and thins to liquid when heated thus losing heat as it solidifies (I think that's close).

One of these days I might even understand all this stuff.

Love the beard...Eric

Caneri wrote:based on salt that turns gelatinous when cold and thins to liquid when heated thus losing heat as it solidifies

Sounds like "Latent Heat" in action.

Sylvander wrote:

Caneri wrote:based on salt that turns gelatinous when cold and thins to liquid when heated thus losing heat as it solidifies

Sounds like "Latent Heat" in action.

Yup. Energy stored and released during the phase change process (e.g. ice to water, liquid water to steam).

One thing about solar heat is that it's seems to be geared towards commercial/industrial installs...or just a hot water tank which is not what I want.

I guess I need to get my pencil sharpened and look at a home build.

When I ask about what solution/solid that they use it seems to be a state secret.

The chase begins lads and lassies...Eric

Caneri wrote:One thing about solar heat is that it's seems to be geared towards commercial/industrial installs...or just a hot water tank which is not what I want.

I guess I need to get my pencil sharpened and look at a home build.

When I ask about what solution/solid that they use it seems to be a state secret.

The chase begins lads and lassies...Eric

If you're doing a home build, how about just filling it with auto antifreeze solution (adjusted to survive your local low temps). If you want to heat water for internal use, couple it elsewhere with sealed heat exchanger of some sort (or use perhaps use RV antifreeze to eliminate toxicity, in case of a leak).

Of course, if you can ensure that your hot water will never freeze, you wouldn't need to run a dual system.

But in these cases, we just talking home heat and hot water (not mechanical work, or electricity).

A DIY molten salt setup would be both expensive and potentially dangerous as salt melts at around 230 degrees Celcius, achieved by focusing many parabolic mirrors on a tower

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Molten-Salt-for-Heat-Storage.htm

Nevada's new molten salt setup even produces power at night, but cost many millions of dollars

http://inhabitat.com/nevadas-new-molten ... -sun-sets/

A concentrated solar water heating setup should be within your capabilities, though, using an insulated swimming pool as a heatstore, with insulating balls floating on the surface, [or other method of store of choice] and heatpumps to convert the low grade heat to higher grade for heating the house/buildings...or try utilising the planet's natural latent heat with underground pipes tapping the heat, also fed to heatpumps....but be aware, if there is a power outage, you'll need to supply power to all pumps, compressors, fans and control equipment

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/therm ... orage.html

http://diygeothermal.com/

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geotherma ... festo.html

Tricky business, energy...the secret is to reduce use to a minimum, rather than try to produce as much as you're used to using...unless you intend to become a local supplier...with all the responsibility for people lives that carries...?

Aitch

something stinks…can you smell it too[quote]
Truckers test LNG
Bloomberg News
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Chad Porter wants to run his 18-wheeler trucks on frozen natural gas across Canada’s Rocky mountains
even before the world’s longest chain of refueling stations gets built to keep them fueled.
The chief operating officer of oil services company Ferus Inc. bought two vehicles to test liquefied
natural gas and reckons switching from diesel may cut 22 percent from his fuel bill, or about $1 a
gallon. At the moment, Calgary-based Ferus uses mobile tankers to refuel his trucks, which cost about
$100,000 more than conventional vehicles, adding expense to a project that’s about saving money. A
Royal Dutch Shell Plc project will make it easier to fill up.
Shell’s plan to spend $250-million on an LNG plant and a string of filling stations is the biggest single
investment yet in making frozen gas a transport fuel, a shift advocated by proponents of energy
independence including billionaire investor T. Boone Pickens. Switching engines to run on LNG is
becoming economic because a glut of fuel from North America’s shale rocks has made the U.S. the
world’s largest natural-gas producer and forced prices to record discounts versus crude oil.
“LNG holds great potential as a transport fuel,

The use of salt melts as solar collectors and storers is not new. Although they've been in discussion for at least 40yrs, only two very large installations (Barstow & S. Spain) have been constructed based on tracked mirror arrays. They both use(d?) nitrate(s) at ~900K - either KNO3 or an admix with the sodium salt. Salt melts have also been proposed as heat transfer media in closed cycle nuclear plant, as designed at ANL. The technologies are so old now that they are described in hard-back text books.
The big problem with lower temperature phase-change mixtures is maintaining the uniformity and composition as anyone who has used one as a hand-warmer knows - after a few freeze-thaw cycles they fail due to irreversible segregation, decomposition (organic/aqueous mixes) and a plethora of other undesirable processes. Furthermore, high temperature heat storage advantage falls out of Second Law considerations and all that jazz; hardly a welcome prospect for a domestic roof installation!

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen....and all the ships at sea,

I'm on the grid as of 4.40pm June 19 2012....Hooray!!

I'm encouraged to be green....or copper colured...hey

My first impression is, I'm producing much more than I use even with AC working...we will see as the year unfolds.

Eric

PS.. @Sage,
No wonder you are called Sage....very interesting post...ty

@RetroTechGuy ....yup thought about that. I need a storage solution that is effective first.....and the hunt continues....ty All.

Caneri wrote:@RetroTechGuy ....yup thought about that. I need a storage solution that is effective first.....and the hunt continues....ty All.

One or more old water heaters (broken, and probably free) -- perhaps will extra insulation around the tank?

Or a solar pond?... (may not work up north).

It has been a while on this one.

Got some prices for a commercial install of solar panels out our way that will meet the electric coop's standards.

Roof mounted: $3.50 per watt
Ground mounted: $2.50 per watt

Nathan