NOP 4.13 r1 released

[Patriot]

Hmmm ...


@gray
NOP desktop is clean and impressive. Great work !
It came as a surprise that you're actually willing to apply cups 1.3.9 into your NOP.
Well, the most important thing is that its working on your hardware right now.

My apology if I seem to be ranting with my further replies below ...


@DaveS
Puppy 4.1.x has cups v1.1.23 (stable released on 03 Jan 2005) which is by current standards can be considered as out-dated. There's valid reasons for using it but there's also valid reasons to use latest cups. It's easy to bitch about CUPS being a mess when one does not understand it (yeah, that includes me back then).

Sure, many other distros are also having cups related problems, BUT, not as severe as puppy. They're able to get cups versions between 1.1.23 and 1.4b2 to produce outputs. Puppy could not. Why is that so ?

As far as I know, there's no CUPS maintainer for puppy. No one here really knows the internals of CUPS (which includes me). There was pakt who did the integrated all-in-one cups+etc v0.3 (sub cups-1.1.23 I think). Anyone wondered why he/she didn't make an update for it ?


“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

[DaveS]

Patriot............ that was not a rant in any way, please continue. It is always tricky for someone like me who has limited knowledge of programming to criticise the efforts, largely given to the community free of charge, of others, and I feel embarrassed at doing so.
One of the biggest problems is that I cant revert to and earlier CUPS, because it is 'hardwired' in to the distro at birth.
Am I right in thinking most of the problems with CUPS spring from the way we dont enter a username and password at boot-up?
Also, surely printing is totally fundamental to a computer system, so it should be pretty much bullet-proof. Sometimes making a printer work on some Linux systems reminds me of the problems of doing same in Msdos, pre windows. And THAT was twenty years ago

ps:
“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

[gray]

Galculator crashing: slight oversight, it is doing so because it cannot find an icon file. Copying galculator_48x48.png from /usr/share/pixmaps/galculator to /usr/share/pixmaps will fix it.

davesurrey: All you need for compiz is to install 3D graphics driver (nvidia), then wows compiz pet and finally the python for ccsm pet. Nothing else should be needed.

Henry: I didnt think an upgrade would even work as this pup uses lzma compression for the sfs files. Bookmarks use a different file structure in Op 10, but it is possible to export bookmarks from 9.6 and then import into 10 (File menu ...). Your scrolling might be improved if you activate 'smooth scrolling' in the Preferences, Advanced tab, browsing option. While there untick the 'show scroll marker' box.

DaveS: Not a clue with your shout down issue. I have tried it on half a dozen different machines from old clunkers to brand new and it has worked fine every time.

CUPS: Patriots 1.3.9 pet worked fine on my Epson CX3900 printer, so I included it in NOP. I think Patriot has done a great job taking the CUPS bull by the horns. If the setup asking for logon all the time annoys you or CUPS is giving permission errors unzip the attached file in /etc/cups.

magerlab: the initrd.gz has a minor change to allow up to 4 sfs files.

[Henry]

Henry: I didnt think an upgrade would even work as this pup uses lzma compression for the sfs files. Bookmarks use a different file structure in Op 10, but it is possible to export bookmarks from 9.6 and then import into 10 (File menu ...). Your scrolling might be improved if you activate 'smooth scrolling' in the Preferences, Advanced tab, browsing option. While there untick the 'show scroll marker' box.
. . .
CUPS: Patriots 1.3.9 pet worked fine on my Epson CX3900 printer, so I included it in NOP. I think Patriot has done a great job taking the CUPS bull by the horns. If the setup asking for logon all the time annoys you or CUPS is giving permission errors unzip the attached file in /etc/cups.

It's late to learn that the upgrade is officially not supposed to work. Except for printing and scanning it generally does work - just badly.

Naturally, one of the first things I tried was "smooth scrolling," - not the answer.

I am using 4.1.2, and all my printers including the HP 4480 (including scanner) work well with cups, hpliplite. Really a beautiful system, which I had naively expected to be simply better with the new Xfce. After a few days I gave up and started over, also unsuccessfully.

When I go to 4.1.3 (and this is now a new pup_save - not an upgrade) the Laserjet 2100 works - until I try to add scanning or hpliplite. Then I invariably get this from cups:
Laserjet "Unable to open file "/var/spool/cups/d00015-001" - Permission denied"

The new cupsd.conf did not seem to help.

[davesurrey]

@gray:

davesurrey: All you need for compiz is to install 3D graphics driver (nvidia), then wows compiz pet and finally the python for ccsm pet. Nothing else should be needed.

Thanks for that advise. I followed through and (for others who might be interested) did the following:

installed the 3D driver nvidia.pet for my graphics card.
installed xorg_xorg_full_dri-7.3.pet needed for xorg.
installed wow's fusion-28jul08pup4-i686.pet
but also needed
libwnck-2.20.3.pet
and
startup-notification-0.9.pet,
Finally python_for_CCSM.pet

Needed to do nvidia-xconfig at the terminal and increase desktops to 3 and there I had a fully working compiz-fusion system. Very impressive.
Of course it may be easier or not dependant on your graphics card.

As a result this may well be the puppy derivative that I will use as standard. So tried to add some more applications.

Problem #1: despite what I read above I can't get to see more than 3 sfs files.

Prioblem #2: trying to add Inkscape and so tried to take off Inklite with petbegone. However Inklite doesn't appear in the 0pkgs_db_4.11.pet

Not really surprised but it begs the question have you produced a 0pkgs_db pet for this puplet? It's very useful and I was under the impression that production of such was strongly encouraged by the community. Do you have plans for this.

Thanks
Dave

[DaveS]

With regard to my being unable to print, this is the error message CUPS throws up:
/usr/lib/cups/filter/foomatic-rip-hplip failed

Does this help anyone point me in the right direction?

[Flymo]

Thanks indeed!
NOP413 works exceptionally well on our P3-700 laptop with 256M RAM, love the enhancements, and the big bonus is that (finally, after days of struggling) we have WiFi with full WPA encryption working under Linux. No luck with Puppy412, Xubuntu, Mint, eLive, OzOS, OpenGeu, Fluxbuntu or Slitaz.`

NetGear WG111v2 (RTL8187) on USB 1.1 connected to 2Wire 2701 ADSL router and BigPond - works flawlessly without WEP/WPA in varii Linuxes, only works with NOP413 (& Win2K/XP) when encryption is enabled. Go figure.....

So... we saved that configuration real quick! Reboots and just works. Thanks!

Means we can max up the power and log on securely from any room in the house, at last (yes, even the smallest room....) <grin>

May have been finger trouble on my part, in which case thanks for the lucky-Puppy effect.

Keep up the great work - most impressive.

[dansole]

I'm loving nop, just having a small problem with the desktop though.

Since upgrading from 412 to 413 the desktop doesn't render properly at startup, it's all black until I open and close windows then the background shows up but no icons.

right-click windows also doesn't work.

I dont know where to start to diagnose this problem so any kind of help at all would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[Patriot]

Hmmm ...

...
/usr/lib/cups/filter/foomatic-rip-hplip failed
...

...
CUPS-PDF "Unable to open file "/var/spool/cups/d00016-001" - Permission denied"
Laserjet (Default Printer) "Unable to open file "/var/spool/cups/d00013-001" - Permission denied"
HP4480 "Unable to open file "/var/spool/cups/d00011-001" - Permission denied"

I'll grab a copy of hplip and see what I can do ... It seems that most cups issues are with HP all-in-one drivers ... This may take a while to get sorted out ...

Rgds

[davesurrey]

I notice that the menu editor that was in NOP 412 has gone in 413. I believe it'a a general problem in the new xfce4.6 that there isn't an editor and there's unlikely to be one until the next version! I read that the current menu structure may even be hard coded!

I really don't like the menu structure that I have (eg picassa has appeared in "Other") so how can we edit the menus and add icons using the CLI?

If that's not do-able fairly easily then I guess I'll have to revert back to NOP 412 which would be a shame.
Dave

[rcrsn51]

Here is my (limited) understanding of the CUPS issue. The CUPS developers were concerned about potential security issues with external filters like those used by HPIJS or PNM2PPA. If the user was logged in as root and those programs had been compromised, then the whole system was exposed.

There is a reference somewhere in the CUPS documentation to the effect that if the user is actually logged in as root, they are then automatically re-logged in as "nobody".

If this is true, then Puppy's requirement to log into CUPS would be irrelevant if the user has a printer that requires an additional filter. Is there anyone out there who has tested 4.2 with such a printer?

[Patriot]

Hmmm ...

.....
If the user was logged in as root and those programs had been compromised, then the whole system was exposed.

Basically, yes ... that was the concern. It's a major concern since cups is being used in big enterprises.

There is a reference somewhere in the CUPS documentation to the effect that if the user is actually logged in as root, they are then automatically re-logged in as "nobody".

Not quite right. The login remains as root. Cupsd also runs as root, unless one tries to force user root in cupsd.conf. In that case, cups runs as nobody. There're root checks in many parts of cups that does this. The direct backend has one exception that allows it to run as root. This is employed in cups-139 pet since it is officially documented. The same is used in puppy4.2rc2 onwards ...

If this is true, then Puppy's requirement to log into CUPS would be irrelevant if the user has a printer that requires an additional filter.
.....

If you meant the web interface login, then it is a different matter. The web login only wants to know who is coming in to mess with it, period. It is not used to execute backends or filters.

If you meant puppy boot login, then it depends on what kind of resources is affected (files/folders/process/etc/etc). Since puppy is root owned, anything else running as non-root looses to root. Even when provisions are made for non-root, if some other process is running as root and access the same resources then those provisions may get overriden. That was the issue with '/dev/lp0 permission denied errors' back then.

The key is to make them runs as root (where required) in a controlled manner. Also, I've made provisions that allows cups access lp+usb/lp device nodes in a consistent manner. All these already solves most cups internal issues on puppy. Gutenprint was a bonus that works out-of-the-box with cups-1.3.9.

I would've like to solved hplip stuffs back then too, but most printers I've encountered and have access to does not require hplip or works just fine with cups+gutenprint.

The problems that I'm seeing nowadays are external filters which cups has no direct control such as hplip. It seems that hplip is designed to work with cups and implements the same security concept. So, that'll give some ideas where to start ...

I've just grabbed hplip sources. I'll take a peek this weekend when I've more time.

Rgds

[magerlab]

I also do not understand how menu works now
there are files in /etc/xdg/xfce4/desktop with registered categories for menu
but there was also something in /root/.config in xfce4 .4.2....

[magerlab]

I also do not understand how menu works now
there are files in /etc/xdg/xfce4/desktop with registered categories for menu
there was also something in /root/.config in xfce4 .4.2....
but now the menu structure is in /usr/share/desktop-directories where menu structure for JWM and ICEWM is situated
( see files with icons)
i think it's easier

[DaveS]

I've just grabbed hplip sources. I'll take a peek this weekend when I've more time.

Rgds

I appreciate you taking the time. Interestingly, the driving force for me wanting this to work is the Opera 10 suite, which seems to work so well now, rendering web pages very cleanly (except this one http://livecam.courchevel.com/index.php?langue=2)
I am getting used to the browser/mail systems being built in to a single interface too.........

[Advnaser]

Great pupplet. NOP 413 is the best I've seen so far. Keep the good work.
The bulk rename utility that comes wih NOP 413 does not work. Also, I tried my luck with Xaralx+Imagemagick637_413.sfs(renamed) but failed. However, this sfs works fine with NOP 412.

[magerlab]

bulk rename is in /usr/libexec not in /usr/local/libexec
so just correct the line in /usr/share/applications/Bulk Rename file

[gray]

Editting the menus is quite easy - just not as easy as it would be if the xdg menu system was fully implemented. See http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu

Just copy the /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu to /root/.config/menus and edit. The root copy overrides the deault in /etc/xdg/menus. The menu file sets up the categories in the menu and then the applications each have an appname.desktop file in /usr/share/applications. The .desktop text file specifies the category to put the app under and the icon.

Bulk rename doesnt work ? oh bu***r. Probably going to need an R1 update to 413 soon at this rate (hopefully after Patriot has solved the HPLIB problem for CUPS).

Lobster: I have uploaded an sfs of OpenOffice 3.01 to puppylinux.asia with JRE included. It is 136 Mb as it uses the lzma squash fs - that means it can only be used with NOP 413 or Fatdog ( or wows unnamed pup ?)

[magerlab]

-"Bulk rename doesnt work ? oh bu***r."
it DOES work
see my post above

[davesurrey]

gray:
1. I just looked at the files for editing the menus and don't see how I can move an application from one category to another.
eg I have added picassa.sfs which shows up under Others category but want to move it to Graphics. Can't see how to do that.

I assume deleting categories is trivial and making them is just adding to the file using the correct syntax.

2. Over in the pwidgets section we have been trying to get pwidgets working in NOP413. So if others are interested then the tweaks are there (except for analog-clock so far.)

3. Thanks for the OO-301.sfs

Cheers
Dave