(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hey -- help is what we're here for. That's the purpose of this forum. It's as close as you'll ever get to a Puppy call center

[political]
Besides, what the government can't or won't do, the rest of us kinda have to pick up and deal with, instead. Especially when it's something that the government /should/ do. Even more so when it comes to things like a social safety net, that ensures that people like those you work with can get along OK in life, or that people like me don't go to bed hungry or homeless.
[/political]

Thank you, Will, for devoting yourself to the care of others, for having the good sense to use the only traits by which man actually distinguishes himself from other animals --the joint abilities to co-operate in the use of individual talents and the expectation that we will at least try. And thank you for giving us tinkerers something worth doing.

mikesLr

Greengeek/Mikeslr

A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 7ef936a699

The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/

It works well with Magoo (Netbook) V6, not requiring any extra libs. It is not clear from the manual, but in order to get the “Word Completion

Hi All,

Word Completion:
From the manual there apparently is a module for the user to change the word completion dictionary from the default /usr/share/dict/ to something else. Someone (sorry, not me – my skills aren't adequate) should be able to co-opt a dictionary –say the one used by Abiword-- converting its format, if necessary, and include it by default in an xvkbd pet.

Word completion and automatic scrolling –preferably both-- may be essential in order for our solution to become bearable. I can see why Standard7452 suggested Onboard or GOK. Xvkbd can be set so that if the mouse is NOT moved for a specified period of time it will generate a keypress sending the “letter

mikeslr wrote:Would it be possible to include in either NavBar or Radar6 a routine to automatically move the cursor if no button were pressed?

Interesting idea. That might be a useful "backstop" in case the user is locked into a problem they can't clear, or has maybe lost sight of the cursor.

ETP wrote:A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 7ef936a699
The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/

Thanks ETP. I have just trialled Precise 5.5 with your suggested xvkbd 3.2 and it seems to work well. I also trialled it with SFR's new version of radar and navbar and they look like a good combination

Precise 5.5 download here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precis ... se-5.5.iso

(new versions of radar and navbar with enhanced visibilty attached)

Mikeslr

Word Completion:
From the manual there apparently is a module for the user to change the word completion dictionary from the default /usr/share/dict/ to something else. Someone (sorry, not me – my skills aren't adequate) should be able to co-opt a dictionary –say the one used by Abiword-- converting its format, if necessary, and include it by default in an xvkbd pet.

The “word

Hi All,

I've just started exploring ETP's Magoo Pup. Nice. I haven't as yet installed xvkbd, Nav or Radar but unless they create conflicts, I am no longer concerned about finding a mouseless wordprocessor and less concerned about generating a dictionary for xvkbd. Once launched from Magoo's Pad, Abiword can --as far as I tested-- be run entirely mouseless. It includes its own spell-check dictionary.
If there is a need for something greater, some time ago sikpuppy created a pet of Arthra which includes Wordweb and functions even when off-line. It's still available from here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 204#361204. I have used that version without a problem in every puppy I've explored (Slackos, Exprimos, Lupus, Precieses) since and it works fine in Magoo. [A version is available via PPM in Saluki and Carolina]. Just a couple of notes about it, not really any complaints: After starting Arthra the first time it stays resident after it's closed leaving an icon on the taskbar. It can be called by clicking that icon or by pressing Ctrl-Alt-w. Not sure if that can be reassigned, but if not it should not be run with Opera, or Opera's Hot-keys should be reassigned. Opera thinks that means "Close this Tab" as I can attest having to type this for the second time. In Abiword, you can use Ctrl-f to find a word (or part of a word) or if already found, Shift-directional-keys to select it. Ctrl-c copies it to the clipboard. Thereafter pressing Ctrl-Alt-w reopens Arthra which provides synonyms and words associated with the selected word.
Although the advice on the Artha link above suggest some modification of Seamonkey may be required (and tells how) I've never had to do that.
I strongly recommend that sikpuppy's pet be mirrored somewhere.

mikesLr

Hi All,

I am rapidly coming to the belief that this project will merit the production of a dedicated pup with its own name to distinguish it from the 1300 odd others that exist.
Testing and the target hardware should reveal upon which core pup it should be based.

Will:
Can you give us some idea of the type and specification of the hardware that is likely to be used including if possible, the likely monitor sizes and resolutions?

With regard to a name (If you all agree) I will kick things off by suggesting a few. I propose however that the final choice of name should be made by Will and his friends.

• Accessibility Pup.
  Assistentia Pup.
  Assistive Pup.
  Pup Assist.

Should Will opt for something like “Klingon Pup

I was thinking about the idea of making a .pet of radar, navbar and xvkbd and calling it "ParaPet"

(I don't know how to make a .pet yet tho'....)

(and in any case maybe paraplegics need such functionality less than quadraplegics would... I guess I don't really know )

ETP wrote:Can I ask that you download the MK-129 pet from my server and test it in Precise 5.5? (The copy on the forum was corrupt)

Hi ETP, I just gave it a quick trial on my 1024x768 Toshiba laptop and found that it somehow took away the ability for radar to stay on top of other windows. I have no idea why this is happening though. (I didn't have this problem when previously testing radar on Magoo netbook version). If I get a chance I will do some more indepth testing, but I'm getting limited computer time at the moment.

SFR has kindly made some further adjustments to radar and navbar to make it possible to alter the transition speed from "choose action" to "choose direction". (EDIT : What I actually meant is that there is now an adjustable delay when displaying the first choice of each menu - allowing the eye more time to adjust before cycling through the rest of the choices).

Also - the new navbar allows a choice of 8 direction arrows (as per original) or 4 arrows (ie: no diagonal arrows). Some users may prefer the simpler visual appearance of the 4 arrow version.
(see attached new versions)

I have trialled this new adjustability within navbar and think it may suit some users to have slower transition settings and also the 4 arrow display, which I find easier on the eyes especially when tired or distracted. It might suit users who need more time to make their choices or to switch their vision from the work window to the navbar window.
My preferred settings to get this slower behaviour would be:

[quote="ETP"]Hi All,

I am rapidly coming to the belief that this project will merit the production of a dedicated pup with its own name to distinguish it from the 1300 odd others that exist.
Testing and the target hardware should reveal upon which core pup it should be based.

Will:
Can you give us some idea of the type and specification of the hardware that is likely to be used including if possible, the likely monitor sizes and resolutions?

With regard to a name (If you all agree) I will kick things off by suggesting a few. I propose however that the final choice of name should be made by Will and his friends.

• Accessibility Pup.
  Assistentia Pup.
  Assistive Pup.
  Pup Assist.

Should Will opt for something like “Klingon Pup

Hi All, Hi greengeek,

For testing whether a combinations pets conflict with each other, or anything else on the system, it's best to first create an SFS. Pets override libraries, and their removal doesn't re-install an over-written library. If there's a problem, you have to start with a new SaveFile and rebuilt your system. SFSes only establish priority of libraries in the "merged/layered" file system. Unloading an SFS eliminates any conflict. Consequently, for testing I recommend you use RHS's PaDS, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 7ea00e07ce. It's an easy to use GUI.
Once you're certain their isn't a conflict, you could use petmaker, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=290171 or sfs2pet, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 5c0a80f0e0. I've never used sfs2pet. What I do is create a directory with the name of the pet. Then I mount the SFS (Right-Click) the SFS and select view. SHOW Hidden files to make certain nothing is missed, and then drag-and-drop all files into your pet folder. Unmount the SFS. Move up one level so that your folder appears as a folder. Open a terminal and type dir2pet. A GUI will walk you thru pet creation.
The above works unless you're creating a pet from scratch: that is including file (configs, libs, etc.) which weren't already included in a pet or SFS. In that case, petmaker should work. But test the pet on a clean SaveFile. I recall some reports of problems. Best to create pets manually once you familiarize yourself with linux file structure. Takes longer, but is safer.
Regarding a dedicated pup: I agree with ETP. Eventually we should put together one so that anyone can have an "assistance Puppy" OOTB, with onscreen keyboard & navigation running on bootup. St. Bernard? Labrador? Recommend based on Slacko, if possible. Although I generally prefer Ubuntu builds --I think I understand them better-- Slackware with its more conservative approach may be better for older hardware. And I think we'd want the system to be able to run on inexpensive (=old) laptops. Alternatively, one of the Long-Term-Support Ubuntus. But I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Too many pieces of the puzzle yet unsolved.

mikesLr

We should base it on a woof default build and NOT a offshoot of another distro. The reason is these functions are small in size or would be when complete and if mainlined into standard build methods require very little maintenance ongoing.

Quirky
Wary
Racy

I choose Wary since its for older hardware.

However initially I think a Magoo build makes the most logical choice to introduce it as a ready to go radar puppy. With better hosting needed.

Wary's pretty stable stuff, and runs on just about anything. It gets my vote as well.

I have a dream....
Service puppy on a stick.....

One main reason for mainline build suggestion is the support for ARM devices. With a pair of $25 ARM based HDMI sticks with WiFi we could use any TV with a HDMI port as a monitor. Two Exactly the same stick have a built-in push button and a generic USB powered 12v battery adapter for the wheelchair. There are also portable HDMI projectors that will run directly off of 12v battery. just point the wheelchair toward a blank whitewall, which in a MDA clinic is always available, I've spent hours awaiting my appt counting wall dimples... So was everybody else. I was actually jealous of the guys with the wheelchairs that could lay flat and sleep.

Hi All,

Ted Dog, I like your dream. Nice goal to shoot for. Just a couple of things to consider: I'm not sure anyone currently involved with the project has the expertise for it; or even a woof-build. I've remastered pups many times, which means anyone can learn to remaster. But, then again, maybe with ARM as a vehicle it will catch Barry K's interest, or someone like technosaurus.
Most of my exploring has been done using precise, or more accurately, jejy69's apt-get-test pup to obtain debs to build SFSes to test in pemau's non-PAE precise, and occasionally a Slacko. [Currently exploring mouseless window-managers]. I can run any precise or slacko on a 12 year old Thinkpad, as long as it doesn't use a PAE kernel. I have little experience with Wary, but have worked a lot with Saluki and Carolina. Both these are based on Racy, which --if I recall correctly-- is based on Wary. Unfortunately, most applications built for Saluki and Carolina won't run in precise or slacko, and vice versa.
So I think our next step would be to test magoo, xvkbd, nav and radar under wary and see if they work, and if not are they fixable?

On second thought, what we should probably do is a three fold attack on the project: (1) produce a remasater of magoo --as it almost ready, albeit still using QWERTY; and (2) work of Wary as a interim solution while (3) keeping ARM as an ultimate objective. A bad solution is better than no solution. And I keep thinking about the many people currently locked out of communicating with the rest of the world. 29 keypresses to type the world Leafpad is bad. Being unable to type at all is worse. Do nothing for 2 minutes. Then think about an 8 hour day of being unable to do anything.

mikesLr

Ive Built puppy flavors before woof and I plan to build after woof, however, I hate to steal thundar from the younger coders so I ENCOURAGE and Wait, this project moved quickly and nicely along. I have a few ARM machines and even wrote the first non BK ARM pet for a needed function to get the ball rolling. I know this is something I could do, just awaiting price points and a finish line to appear. I already have an ARM based computer and a projector running from a Wheelchair type battery under 30watt
s

Ted Dog, if you could PM me about ARM Puppies -- I do NOT want to derail this thread, and I have sort of a request re: Puppy on ARM, which I'd like to talk to you about. Nobody's really taken it up, and although I have hunches I've never really confirmed why.

Hi All,

Initial report regarding Wary. Frugal install of Wary 5.5. Both Magoo & xvkbd work. Will have to re-read posts on Nav & Radar so I'll know what I'm doing before working with them.
Couple of things I've noticed so far. Magoo 129 pet opens in the center of the desktop. I think xvkbd does as well. As did Abiword. At any rate, when applications overlap they have to be moved: a problem if you limited to a single press. Perhaps we should be considering some kind of windows manager which can be operated by keyboard commands. Iguleder built cwm (calm) a while back in Puppy 5.3 and Slackware. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 25726c44c2, but there are others. From what I've read about cwm, it's highly configurable: Maybe enough so that it would be possible to build an onscreen keyboard with keys optimized for single-stick.
Unless I've missed something, to type into Abiword it has to be opened --which is why I like Magoo's nice big icon: easy targets-- xvkbd's focus button must be pressed, Abiword clicked on to focus on it, and then mouse returned to xvkbd to begin typing. Lots of work. Should be an easier way.
Pressing F12 on xvkbd will open a drop down Programs-Menu, but I haven't figured out how to use it. Typing anything closes it. Direction keys should have worked. Otherwise, focusing and lots of mouse moves are needed to launch an application from the Start Menu. Best, of course, that most used applications be callable from Mago.

Ted Dog: Great to hear you have technical expertise. My apologies for the unintentional slighting of your ability. Guess I've been wondering around the wrong threads. It's a big Forum. And starhwk, please consider after emailing Ted Dog opening a thread dedicated to Arming the disabled. Perhaps there are others who also have been waiting, knowing too little to do anything other than appear ignorant. One of the great things about this Forum is that even if by no other means by Crown-Sourcing and experimentation we can stumble forward. The only stupid question is the one which wasn't asked.

mikesLr