Fatdog64-630 & 631 Final (May 12 2014)

Message

kirk · #461 Post by **kirk** » Mon 16 Jun 2014, 22:42

Just to echo what James said about tearing. I have not seen it ether, except on the my c720 which is 4th gen Intel. With that I needed Option "TearFree" "true". But for my other Intels and my 4200hd ATI, no problem. Hopefully the folks with Nvidia did try the included Nouveau video driver first.

Yoni · #462 Post by **Yoni** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 05:03

@LateAdopter

Thanks for the info on the X bug

jamesbond wrote:SDL is a platform-independent library providing a graphical canvas, mainly used by games but recently also used by anything that wants to output to screen but doesn't want to deal with the difference between Xorg, GTK window, Microsoft Windows, etc. Some media player uses this, for example VLC, xine, ffplay can be configured to use SDL if the library is available. It is also used by qemu, dosbox, and many many games to display their screens. But it is *not* used by web browsers.

Since the problem reported happens on browsers, I think the problem is not with SDL (although SDL helps to trigger the bug because it uses Xorg in a specific way so those who use SDL-based programs will obviously see problems too). The link you gave me talks about patching SDL *not* to use backing store.

I'll give your way a go later and report back but like Kirk you seem to be ignoring people or using selective reading as we have pointed out we have the tearing ripple with Browser / youtube and VLC playback

Ted Dog wrote:JB Thanks for looking into this and I need to modify my last report the prior version of Fatdog64 620 series also has a ripple just not at noticeable or as frequent as what is being discussed here. Still interested in compostion add-on posted eariler I used one before in a distro even smaller than puppylinux and it adds much to default look and feel and small. But maybe not ready to be added until this current issue can be reduced or stopped.
I can't compare it to windows8 or any Windows since this hardware can't install the version of windows that comes with it Fatdog64 loves it.. Before Fatdog64 I had a dud of video hardware..

Thanks for letting us know the older Fatdog still has the ripple.

All the Nvidia forums say use Compton to resolve it as it has it's own compositing and Vsync settings but Kirk said it wasn't going to be any help. ?

Stripe wrote:Hi all
I have suffered this problem for years on many linux distributions on varied hardware and from what I have found you may want to look at the window manager and how/what it uses for compositing. (with many debian/arch based distros I found swapping the window manager to kwin, while still keeping the same desktops, eliminated the tearing totally) and no changes were needed to the x-server or the graphics driver. hope this information helps

Can Kwin be installed to fatdog?

kirk wrote:Just to echo what James said about tearing. I have not seen it ether, except on the my c720 which is 4th gen Intel. With that I needed Option "TearFree" "true". But for my other Intels and my 4200hd ATI, no problem. Hopefully the folks with Nvidia did try the included Nouveau video driver first.

You seem to be ignoring people , selective reading or just jumping to the end of the thread as it's already been pointed out that the Vsync in the Nvidia drivers does nothing and the Nouveau video driver with Vsync only stops the ripple in VLC for it to endup with a judder.

Browser and flash content still ripples.

Ted Dog · #463 Post by **Ted Dog** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 07:09

@yoni the developers work for free and on their own time, be nicer and you may get these issues looked into more. As They both said it does not affect them so not sure how they are going to proceed.
I figure we are on our own on this one. I for one just boot the earlier version of fatdog64 to watch videos. Beta was reported to still have same issue. this is over my head. but please report the ID hex numbers for your cards so we can figure out who and what the effects are.
I am currently repairing my borked win8 so can't test. Hope an earlier version of win8 on my ADM can play my videos for the time being. Yeah just finished replacing HD image with an earlier version of win8. now to test.

Wilbert · #464 Post by **Wilbert** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 07:11

kirk wrote: I would try the proprietary Nvidia driver. If you look at the first post of this thread there is information there about the two proprietary Nvidia drivers available.

Pavan wrote:How can we install the proprietary Nvidia drivers and configure them when we already have and pointed out on here that it makes no difference ???

Billtoo has installed the latest Beta and confirmed he still has ripple.

kirk wrote:Hopefully the folks with Nvidia did try the included Nouveau video driver first.

Wilbert wrote:
kirk wrote: If you're using the included nouveau driver, you might try turning on GLXVBlank. Create a file called /usr/X11R7/lib64/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nouveau.conf and put this in it, and then restart X:
Code: Select all
Section "Device"
    Identifier "nvidia card"
    Driver "nouveau"
    Option "GLXVBlank" "true"
EndSection
In VLC player it stopped the intermittent ripple only to end up with a intermittent judder.

Made no difference to webpage scroll of flashplayer ripples.

Yoni wrote: You seem to be ignoring people , selective reading or just jumping to the end of the thread as it's already been pointed out that the Vsync in the Nvidia drivers does nothing and the Nouveau video driver with Vsync only stops the ripple in VLC for it to endup with a judder.

Browser and flash content still ripples.

This -----^

Just going around in circles and the offer of a free Nvidia card rebuked.

Not Looking good is it.

Abdulrahman · #465 Post by **Abdulrahman** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 07:18

But it's not just Nvidia cards as i have it with my i5-2500 & i5-3570 GPU but Kirk says he doesn't , so it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe all that shuddering when Kirk and James look at 70's hairy porn cancels out the ripple effect.

Would be nice if they could have someone knowledgeable with linux to join them that could test video cards.

Ted Dog · #466 Post by **Ted Dog** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 07:47

Abdul that is just plain uncalled for. please refrain from accusations of personal types. Most likely your post will be removed for content. If your not out right banned.

Abdulrahman · #467 Post by **Abdulrahman** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 08:06

Ted Dog wrote:Abdul that is just plain uncalled for. please refrain from accusations of personal types. Most likely your post will be removed for content. If your not out right banned.

What accusations of personal type

If you are talking about the lame attempt at humour of 70's hairy porn then it's obvious it is a joke denoted by the grin on the end.

Is there a rule against Humour and are you saying Kirk and James don't have one

Stripe · #468 Post by **Stripe** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:00

hi all
@yont, unfortunately I think kwin is far too large (including its dependencies to be added to puppy) I was just trying to explain that I personally do not think this ts a puppy specific issue and gave an example of a workaround that has worked for me in the past, to try and help identify the issue, sorry for any confusion caused.

@ted dog + wilbert I have seen the same nvidia card (gts 450) and propriety driver (same debian based linux distro) produce different results (tearing/no tearing) when used on 2 different machines (amd/intel chips and different mobos) I dont have a clue why or how this can of happened (but it did) the easiest way I could get consistent results between the 2 machines was to disable the compositing/desktop effects. The kwin workaround seemed to work OK on both machines, but I have no idea if it was the type of compositing, the way it was implemented or something else (luck?). I know these findings do not relate to fatdog/puppy at all, but they do seem very similar to the problems you are experiencing and hope they may be useful in resolving your troubles.

Billtoo · #469 Post by **Billtoo** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 14:35

New install of Fatdog64 to a 16gb sdhc card.
Did all the setup and rebooted creating savefile.

I installed the xorg-server-1.12.4.pet and rebooted.
Then installed ati-catalyst-13.12-HD5-and-up-fd64-630.pet and rebooted.

Display
Resolution 1920x1080 pixels
Vendor The X.Org Foundation
Version 1.12.4

OpenGL
Vendor Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Renderer AMD Radeon HD 8570
Version 4.3.12618 Compatibility Profile Context 13.251
Direct Rendering Yes

In Catalyst Control center I set the tearfree option.

Then ran the tests and there was no tearing,rippled lines, etc.
Then booted up Windows 8.1 and ran the tests again for comparison,
same result.

Ted Dog · #470 Post by **Ted Dog** » Tue 17 Jun 2014, 18:08

With my Acer Laptop Win8 downgrade to a simpler time of less bloat it sees and plays my video files again. So I know how well it works for linux tweaking

Pavan · #471 Post by **Pavan** » Wed 18 Jun 2014, 11:21

LateAdopter wrote:The other thing that needs checking is whether VDPAU hardware acceleration is configured and working in the browser.

It is enabled for flash player if that's what you mean.

Thanks for letting James know about the X bug.

Stripe wrote:@yont, unfortunately I think kwin is far too large.

No Probs dude , Thanks for the input and letting us know we are not alone.

Billtoo wrote:I installed the xorg-server-1.12.4.pet and rebooted.
Then installed ati-catalyst-13.12-HD5-and-up-fd64-630.pet and rebooted.

Then ran the tests and there was no tearing,rippled lines, etc.
Then booted up Windows 8.1 and ran the tests again for comparison,
same result.

Thanks buddy for doing that and confirming that changing to a AMD/ATI card on your hardware fixed it.

Did you have trouble with the original xorg-server ?

jamesbond wrote: For those who experience tearing problems, you can disable backing store by editing /etc/X11/xserverrc and edit the last line, so that it reads like this:

exec X "$@" -bs -nolisten tcp > /tmp/xerrs.$USER.log 2>&1

Not had a chance to try this yet as i need to find time to test both Nvidia and nouveau drivers back to back to compare them as i just quickly popped on.

Though to be honest after Billtoo test i'm close to just giving in and buying AMD/ATI cards.

Billtoo · #472 Post by **Billtoo** » Wed 18 Jun 2014, 12:55

Pavan wrote:I installed the xorg-server-1.12.4.pet and rebooted.
Then installed ati-catalyst-13.12-HD5-and-up-fd64-630.pet and rebooted.

Then ran the tests and there was no tearing,rippled lines, etc.
Then booted up Windows 8.1 and ran the tests again for comparison,
same result.

Thanks buddy for doing that and confirming that changing to a AMD/ATI card on your hardware fixed it.

Did you have trouble with the original xorg-server ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't change the card, used another pc with an ATI card.

kirk worked on the ati pets (pages 8-10 of this thread) and got them working well.

LateAdopter · #473 Post by **LateAdopter** » Wed 18 Jun 2014, 12:57

Hello Pavan

A few things you need to be aware of, before you splash out any money on ATI/AMD cards

The hardware MPEG decoding in Catalyst has never worked properly on linux, and has been effectively abandoned, so your CPU would have to do the decoding in software. But ATI did TV out for many years so its not surprising it works properly at 29.97Hz

The open source Radeon driver will do the hardware decoding, but I'm doubtful that they have got the 29.97Hz working perfectly yet. Christian König (AMD) has been doing patches to try and fix it within the last couple of months. So this driver is still work-in-progress.

The Nvidia proprietary driver is the best for hardware video decoding, but I think it requires some manual linux configuration to get 29.97Hz working.

I have never owned Nvidia hardware, so I don't know the details.

Wilbert · #474 Post by **Wilbert** » Thu 19 Jun 2014, 07:22

They are now saying that steam boxes will be shipped with Windows 8.1 for the foreseeable future because apparently Linux is inherently flawed and broken.

So i'm off back to windows as i'm not swapping back and forth just to play games.

Good luck all and i hope you find a solution to the ripple.

James C · #475 Post by **James C** » Thu 19 Jun 2014, 07:55

Wilbert wrote:They are now saying that steam boxes will be shipped with Windows 8.1 for the foreseeable future because apparently Linux is inherently flawed and broken.

So i'm off back to windows as i'm not swapping back and forth just to play games.

Good luck all and i hope you find a solution to the ripple.

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Pavan · #476 Post by **Pavan** » Thu 19 Jun 2014, 11:25

Pavan wrote:
jamesbond wrote: For those who experience tearing problems, you can disable backing store by editing /etc/X11/xserverrc and edit the last line, so that it reads like this:

exec X "$@" -bs -nolisten tcp > /tmp/xerrs.$USER.log 2>&1
Not had a chance to try this yet as i need to find time to test both Nvidia and nouveau drivers back to back to compare them as i just quickly popped on.

Sadly it made no difference to either , Still exactly the same.

Pavan · #477 Post by **Pavan** » Thu 19 Jun 2014, 22:15

LateAdopter wrote:The hardware MPEG decoding in Catalyst has never worked properly on linux, and has been effectively abandoned, so your CPU would have to do the decoding in software.

Thanks for the info

Does this mean that MKV , Avi and Mp4 would also use software decoding as that's the format i use the most ?

Thanks

Abdulrahman · #478 Post by **Abdulrahman** » Thu 19 Jun 2014, 22:32

The Linux desktop is about to get a LOT faster

Summary: The patch, created by Linux kernel developer Mike Galbraith, is 233 lines long and tweaks the kernel scheduler and cutting down latency by a whopping factor of ten.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/the- ... ster/10372

Has this old patch been applied to Fatdog ???

dated 2010

Ted Dog · #479 Post by **Ted Dog** » Fri 20 Jun 2014, 00:10

yes that old patch was worked into last release via normal kernel integration. Speed up was noticeable for AMD machine I own.

Bindee · #480 Post by **Bindee** » Fri 20 Jun 2014, 04:47

I was thinking of buying a usb 3.0 hub

Does Fatdog detect them ok?

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

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Fatdog64-630 & 631 Final (May 12 2014)

Fatdog64-630 & 631 Final (May 12 2014)