I can't understand half of what he wrote (writ?), but Rrrrrrobert Burrrrrns is the man. Besides Rrrrrroosevelt just doesn't work.How can anyone sensible compare the contrived speech of a mere politician with a genius.
Whodo/Warren Has left puppy
I used to check in to the forums regularly to check on progress on the latest version, derivatives and puplets. The petty infighting caused me to pretty much curtail that.
I dropped by today to see what was new only to see it's still going on.
Too bad. This kind of crap probably drives more people away than a bug here and there.
I think the majority of Puppy users come here to see what's new and to get some help with issues they may be having, or if not, to help someone who is.
If I may make a suggestion. Take all development threads to a private forum that is not visible to the general, non-development involved Puppy user.
I dropped by today to see what was new only to see it's still going on.
Too bad. This kind of crap probably drives more people away than a bug here and there.
I think the majority of Puppy users come here to see what's new and to get some help with issues they may be having, or if not, to help someone who is.
If I may make a suggestion. Take all development threads to a private forum that is not visible to the general, non-development involved Puppy user.
Good plan. And while you're mixing mortar and setting stones, you can also rebuild the Berlin Wall.
[size=84][i]hangout:[/i] ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
I agree. That's a very polite version of: "Stop crying out loud!", isn't it?daklander wrote:I used to check in to the forums regularly to check on progress on the latest version, derivatives and puplets. The petty infighting caused me to pretty much curtail that.
I dropped by today to see what was new only to see it's still going on.
Too bad. This kind of crap probably drives more people away than a bug here and there.
I think the majority of Puppy users come here to see what's new and to get some help with issues they may be having, or if not, to help someone who is.
If I may make a suggestion. Take all development threads to a private forum that is not visible to the general, non-development involved Puppy user.
There are disagreements and conflicts in every forum. However, as Barry K wrote in his blog, most other forums would have calmed the situation much earlier by locking threads, suspending members, etc............. it would have never got as far along as it did.
I wish WhoDo the best in whatever he choses to do.
I wish WhoDo the best in whatever he choses to do.
Yes, the moderators at the Puppy Linux forums are conspicuous by their lack of activity.
At the PC-Guide forums, the moderators are constantly active, banning spammers etc.
Every post has a little triangle in it and if any member sees anything posted that needs reported, they need only click on the triangle and post a few words [e.g. "spam at 1st post"], and the moderator will have dealt with it within about 15 minutes.
If people begin saying things they aught not, a moderator will probably be taking part in the thread [or have been alerted] and will give a warning, and if it doesn't stop will lock the thread.
There are arguments now and then, but they are only allowed to go as far as the moderators think reasonable.
Anyone who doesn't like the way the rules are being applied can take their ball and go home.
And those remaining find another ball and continue playing.
It was thus since I was a child.
A 33? year old, but very knowledgeable member named Saphaline walked away from the PC-Guide.
Rather sad, but there it goes.
He reappears now and then to give some users the benefit of his vast & deep understanding of hardware.
At the PC-Guide forums, the moderators are constantly active, banning spammers etc.
Every post has a little triangle in it and if any member sees anything posted that needs reported, they need only click on the triangle and post a few words [e.g. "spam at 1st post"], and the moderator will have dealt with it within about 15 minutes.
If people begin saying things they aught not, a moderator will probably be taking part in the thread [or have been alerted] and will give a warning, and if it doesn't stop will lock the thread.
There are arguments now and then, but they are only allowed to go as far as the moderators think reasonable.
Anyone who doesn't like the way the rules are being applied can take their ball and go home.
And those remaining find another ball and continue playing.
It was thus since I was a child.
A 33? year old, but very knowledgeable member named Saphaline walked away from the PC-Guide.
Rather sad, but there it goes.
He reappears now and then to give some users the benefit of his vast & deep understanding of hardware.
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Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
I am a moderator on quite a few of the forum threads but not all
and I have limited powers.
On some forum threads I can not even move spam to aardvark (the graveyard for spam)
John Murgha has a very open to all, trolls, detractors etc - all welcome. There is a price for that.
Personally I would lock down and ban frequently.
There is a price to that too.
So John own hosts and decides.
If you wish to be a moderator by all means write to him by Private message or Flash (and I believe Pizzasgood too - who has a more active role) More moderators I would suggest are always welcome.
The question for me is how do we encourage moderators,
people of WhoDo's calibre to remain
and our more extreme personalities such as ttuuxxx (you know its true) to have the ego stroking he requires
Personally I believe changing peoples extreme behaviour is going to meet with limited success. We can however encourage the considerable good they do (I might just mention Ttuuxxx again at this point).
meanwhile . . . testing required, wiki pages need editing . . .
noobs questions need answering etc
Be kind. That helps a lot
and I have limited powers.
On some forum threads I can not even move spam to aardvark (the graveyard for spam)
John Murgha has a very open to all, trolls, detractors etc - all welcome. There is a price for that.
Personally I would lock down and ban frequently.
There is a price to that too.
So John own hosts and decides.
If you wish to be a moderator by all means write to him by Private message or Flash (and I believe Pizzasgood too - who has a more active role) More moderators I would suggest are always welcome.
The question for me is how do we encourage moderators,
people of WhoDo's calibre to remain
and our more extreme personalities such as ttuuxxx (you know its true) to have the ego stroking he requires
Personally I believe changing peoples extreme behaviour is going to meet with limited success. We can however encourage the considerable good they do (I might just mention Ttuuxxx again at this point).
meanwhile . . . testing required, wiki pages need editing . . .
noobs questions need answering etc
Be kind. That helps a lot
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ttuuxxx
- Posts: 11171
- Joined: Sat 05 May 2007, 10:00
- Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia
- Contact:
LoL Lobster, what are you going on about, lol
Yes I have an ego issue, lol oh well I can't be perfect, lol I think thats what keeps me sane, lol Hey maybe you should get a ego problem too, LOL man I can't stop laughing. I only started this thread because I figured if we showed enough support towards warren as a group, maybe, just maybe he might reconsider. I liked having him around, helpful people with Linux knowledge and a willingness to share and explain that knowledge is something every Linux forum needs in mass quantities, and thats what Warren was and is.
ttuuxxx
Yes I have an ego issue, lol oh well I can't be perfect, lol I think thats what keeps me sane, lol Hey maybe you should get a ego problem too, LOL man I can't stop laughing. I only started this thread because I figured if we showed enough support towards warren as a group, maybe, just maybe he might reconsider. I liked having him around, helpful people with Linux knowledge and a willingness to share and explain that knowledge is something every Linux forum needs in mass quantities, and thats what Warren was and is.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)
It takes a lot of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom to be a good moderator.
For a start I don't have enough knowledge, never mind the understanding and wisdom that flows from that.
At it's most basic, technical knowledge is needed to be able to judge an issue.
I admire and respect a good job of moderating in action.
Usually the admiration and respect also reflects upon the person doing that good job.
It can be very impressive when seen in action.
For a start I don't have enough knowledge, never mind the understanding and wisdom that flows from that.
At it's most basic, technical knowledge is needed to be able to judge an issue.
I admire and respect a good job of moderating in action.
Usually the admiration and respect also reflects upon the person doing that good job.
It can be very impressive when seen in action.
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mysticmarks
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 01:56
- Location: California
- Contact:
Wow. This is really very upsetting.
@Ecomoney
Ecomoney, you have made many excellent suggestions. However, you are very aggressive in the pursuit of your desires. This is an asset in many businesses, but not in the OSS world. It's time consuming for everyone involved. To push anyone with excessive pressure will only deteriorate that individuals feeling of success with progress. Now instead of Warren working as much as he can because he cares about puppy(just as you do), he feels unwanted. Cut him some slack!
@WhoDo
WhoDo, you have played an integral roll in puppy support for BarryK. He has acknowledged you at every level. I came to puppy, and you were one of the first to pm me something useful. It was nice to be welcomed. Many here DO appreciate your efforts. In any working condition there is going to be resistance, and problems with communication. If we all walked away from things we loved due to some else not liking how we do it, then none of us would have hobbies or jobs. Suck it up, and blow it out. It's all gone way out of proportion.
@BOTH OF YOU- You may be disgusted with one another, but lets be honest. You both have a common interest. Linux, and in particular Puppy. It takes big men to say those two little words(you know...). I think you both have it in you.
@Ecomoney
Ecomoney, you have made many excellent suggestions. However, you are very aggressive in the pursuit of your desires. This is an asset in many businesses, but not in the OSS world. It's time consuming for everyone involved. To push anyone with excessive pressure will only deteriorate that individuals feeling of success with progress. Now instead of Warren working as much as he can because he cares about puppy(just as you do), he feels unwanted. Cut him some slack!
@WhoDo
WhoDo, you have played an integral roll in puppy support for BarryK. He has acknowledged you at every level. I came to puppy, and you were one of the first to pm me something useful. It was nice to be welcomed. Many here DO appreciate your efforts. In any working condition there is going to be resistance, and problems with communication. If we all walked away from things we loved due to some else not liking how we do it, then none of us would have hobbies or jobs. Suck it up, and blow it out. It's all gone way out of proportion.
@BOTH OF YOU- You may be disgusted with one another, but lets be honest. You both have a common interest. Linux, and in particular Puppy. It takes big men to say those two little words(you know...). I think you both have it in you.
I respectfully disagree. I find this all very humorous.mysticmarks wrote:Wow. This is really very upsetting.
Frig off? Stuff it? Those words? If so, they've been said already ...It takes big men to say those two little words(you know...).
[size=84][i]hangout:[/i] ##b0rked on irc.freenode.net
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
[i]diversion:[/i] [url]http://alienjeff.net[/url] - visit The Fringe
[i]quote:[/i] "The foundation of authority is based upon the consent of the people." - Thomas Hooker[/size]
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nic2109
- Posts: 405
- Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 20:24
- Location: Hayslope, near Middlemarch, Midlands, England
Many years ago the London Times (which is renowned for its letters page) carried a correspondence on the topic 'What is wrong with the World?". It continued for some time with letters from the Great and the Good full of descriptions of what's wrong. One of the most telling can easily be reproduced it in its entirety:
"Dear Sir, I am. Yours sincerely, G K Chesterton."
As in so much of life, most the issues described in this thread could have been avoided if everyone behaved with modesty, courtesy and kindness. But it seems that here, as in so much of life, this is too much to ask. Deep, deep sigh.........
"Dear Sir, I am. Yours sincerely, G K Chesterton."
As in so much of life, most the issues described in this thread could have been avoided if everyone behaved with modesty, courtesy and kindness. But it seems that here, as in so much of life, this is too much to ask. Deep, deep sigh.........
[color=darkblue][b][size=150]Nick[/size][/b][/color]
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bugman
-
Subito Piano
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Mon 28 May 2007, 03:12
- Location: UPSTATE New York
- Contact:
WhoDo (and anyone else interested):
I've been with Puppy for years now, following Barry's blog, asking questions, trying to help answer questions when i could, and doing PR in my little world. You were one of the first people to respond to me and i've always respected your thoughts. I -- make that virtually everyone that uses Puppy -- appreciate your work, though we probably are unaware of the cost to you in terms of time, stress, and even money. (and THANK YOU!!!)
So--
You've been here longer than most everyone else and have staked a lot in Puppy. Do you really want to walk away from it all?
People need your wisdom regarding Puppy. This thing is GOOD, very good. Puppy thrives on its own merits, and you've had a hand in that. Puppy needs people like you to continue.
There is a difference between backing off and backing out. Not too long ago ttuuxxx said he was walking away. I'm glad he reconsidered and stayed on. I hope you likewise will reconsider after a break.
I sense that mostly ONE or TWO people are the cause of this. Too many people have a TON of respect for you; those one or two others will not diminish that respect. Sometimes, given enough rope, people will end up hanging themselves anyway. In the meantime -- better to simply ignore them. I MEAN JUST THAT -- to not bother responding, especially if you are getting angry. There are plenty of others to argue with them should they choose to.
Ecomoney -- honestly, you have made your points. Those in charge (Barry or whoever) will decide which points have enough merit to warrant consideration in future releases. If that's not enough, i suggest you make your own version of Puppy or Woof for your needs. If you can't code, then find others willing to build to your vision for you (and no, i'm not being a snob here, i can't code; i can only make remasters).
You once said you are a "street sort of guy" who tells it as he sees it. Remember that others see it differently and no one sees it perfectly. That's why we dialogue -- politely and respectfully, or not at all. To do otherwise will kill this thing. If that's not what you want -- you need to either learn to speak softly or quit posting.
I've been with Puppy for years now, following Barry's blog, asking questions, trying to help answer questions when i could, and doing PR in my little world. You were one of the first people to respond to me and i've always respected your thoughts. I -- make that virtually everyone that uses Puppy -- appreciate your work, though we probably are unaware of the cost to you in terms of time, stress, and even money. (and THANK YOU!!!)
So--
You've been here longer than most everyone else and have staked a lot in Puppy. Do you really want to walk away from it all?
People need your wisdom regarding Puppy. This thing is GOOD, very good. Puppy thrives on its own merits, and you've had a hand in that. Puppy needs people like you to continue.
There is a difference between backing off and backing out. Not too long ago ttuuxxx said he was walking away. I'm glad he reconsidered and stayed on. I hope you likewise will reconsider after a break.
I sense that mostly ONE or TWO people are the cause of this. Too many people have a TON of respect for you; those one or two others will not diminish that respect. Sometimes, given enough rope, people will end up hanging themselves anyway. In the meantime -- better to simply ignore them. I MEAN JUST THAT -- to not bother responding, especially if you are getting angry. There are plenty of others to argue with them should they choose to.
Ecomoney -- honestly, you have made your points. Those in charge (Barry or whoever) will decide which points have enough merit to warrant consideration in future releases. If that's not enough, i suggest you make your own version of Puppy or Woof for your needs. If you can't code, then find others willing to build to your vision for you (and no, i'm not being a snob here, i can't code; i can only make remasters).
You once said you are a "street sort of guy" who tells it as he sees it. Remember that others see it differently and no one sees it perfectly. That's why we dialogue -- politely and respectfully, or not at all. To do otherwise will kill this thing. If that's not what you want -- you need to either learn to speak softly or quit posting.
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Rattlehead
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Thu 11 Sep 2008, 11:40
Hey guys, I'm freaking out here. I am taking my first steps in Linux and all I can feel is gratitude. Puppy Linux was the thing that I needed to exist, although it took me a long time until I knew it. It "woke me up" from years of believing that I hated computers...
As a Linux rookie, I have always a feeling of inadequacy when posting messages, but maybe my "fresh" point of view can be of some utility here...
Reading all this controversy, a couple of ideas emerged in my mind:
a) Call me naive, but I can't agree a mentality that measures Puppy in terms of more or less Windows-like. "Windows is uncomfortable, so let's make Puppy as similar to it as possible". It doesn't make sense to me. I'd prefer setting the measurement in absolute terms: let's create an instrument as "transparent" as possible, something that interferes the least between a human being and what he wants to do (Windows is not precisely a model for that
). Make people choose Puppy because it is the best, not because it is better that windows.
My point here has to do with ergonomics, epistemology and those high level issues, but I think that it could be benefitting to make a pause to clarify Puppy Linux's "philosophy" before rushing into the next version... I sometimes perceive a taliban-like hatred against M$ (me myself sometimes...
) that can lead to wrong decisions...
b) When suggesting improvements, in order to avoid all these human-too-human frictions, maybe the process could be made more anonymous? Why not a questionnaire page with entries: 1-Suggestion of improvement 2-Small comment (if necessary). That would eliminate the ego factor and would allow developers to impartially focus on what to implement better.
So those are my two cents. Like I said at the beginning, my feeling after getting to know Puppy Linux and all the people involved can only be GRATITUDE.
As a Linux rookie, I have always a feeling of inadequacy when posting messages, but maybe my "fresh" point of view can be of some utility here...
Reading all this controversy, a couple of ideas emerged in my mind:
a) Call me naive, but I can't agree a mentality that measures Puppy in terms of more or less Windows-like. "Windows is uncomfortable, so let's make Puppy as similar to it as possible". It doesn't make sense to me. I'd prefer setting the measurement in absolute terms: let's create an instrument as "transparent" as possible, something that interferes the least between a human being and what he wants to do (Windows is not precisely a model for that
). Make people choose Puppy because it is the best, not because it is better that windows.My point here has to do with ergonomics, epistemology and those high level issues, but I think that it could be benefitting to make a pause to clarify Puppy Linux's "philosophy" before rushing into the next version... I sometimes perceive a taliban-like hatred against M$ (me myself sometimes...
) that can lead to wrong decisions...b) When suggesting improvements, in order to avoid all these human-too-human frictions, maybe the process could be made more anonymous? Why not a questionnaire page with entries: 1-Suggestion of improvement 2-Small comment (if necessary). That would eliminate the ego factor and would allow developers to impartially focus on what to implement better.
So those are my two cents. Like I said at the beginning, my feeling after getting to know Puppy Linux and all the people involved can only be GRATITUDE.
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Subito Piano
- Posts: 731
- Joined: Mon 28 May 2007, 03:12
- Location: UPSTATE New York
- Contact:
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Master_wrong
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Thu 20 Mar 2008, 01:48
it's sad if whoodoo really quit... especially because if he really quit because just 1 user. I can understand if he quit because quarrel with other dev. but surely not with just 1 user.
I hope he just temporarily taking break, and will get back in time.
I hope he just temporarily taking break, and will get back in time.
Cluster-Pup v.2-Puppy Beowulf Cluster
[url]http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=499199#499199[/url]
[url]http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=499199#499199[/url]