New Wiki needs editors

Message

puppyite · #61 Post by **puppyite** » Tue 06 Oct 2009, 16:03

I now understand that the link to the home page is the black text "PuppyLinux" in the upper left hand corner of every wiki page. I was misled into thinking that this text is not a link because it is black and not blue. And IMO the word PuppyLinux does not translate to "Home". I only discovered this by accident after making the screenshot, possibly my cursor lingered there just long enough to see the link.

This is what happens when well established usability guidelines are ignored by web site designers. I.E. All links should be different in color from plain text.

Making a web site visitor mouse over every character in order to discover hidden links is also a violation of well established usability guidelines.

dogle · #62 Post by **dogle** » Wed 07 Oct 2009, 14:04

Yes, puppyite, I found that link to be needlessly confusing the way it is.

Indexing is maybe a trickier issue. This was a serious difficulty with the old wiki and one reason why it did not seem to get the use it deserved.

Hey, the content seems to be shaping up splendidly - I love the new clean, uncluttered look - thanks folks!

From what our newbies have been telling us, this new wiki may be the biggest thing happening now Puppy-popularity-wise. Collectively they are howling for easier access to information.

If it can finally crack this chronic problem, Puppy's going to make a whole lot more people happier around the world :-)

puppyite · #63 Post by **puppyite** » Wed 07 Oct 2009, 14:32

dogle wrote:Indexing is maybe a trickier issue.

If by indexing you mean site navigation then try either Category or PageIndex.

You are a thoughtful observer.

raffy · #64 Post by **raffy** » Wed 07 Oct 2009, 14:41

puppyite wrote:I now understand that the link to the home page is the black text "PuppyLinux" in the upper left hand corner of every wiki page. I was misled into thinking that this text is not a link because it is black and not blue. And IMO the word PuppyLinux does not translate to "Home". I only discovered this by accident after making the screenshot, possibly my cursor lingered there just long enough to see the link.

This is what happens when well established usability guidelines are ignored by web site designers. I.E. All links should be different in color from plain text.

Yes, I noticed that, too, at the start of the upgrade, but I kept it stock design as much as possible. Now it really has to be colored as a link.

Thanks for your comments.

puppyite · #65 Post by **puppyite** » Wed 07 Oct 2009, 16:11

Raffy,
Would making links at the top of the page underlined on mouseover be possible? Then they would match the behavior of links in the body of the articles.

raffy · #66 Post by **raffy** » Thu 08 Oct 2009, 00:00

Done! Let me know if there are still needed improvements.

puppyite · #67 Post by **puppyite** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 00:12

Raffy,
I don't get an underline when I hover my cursor (aka mouseover) on the words PuppyLinux or any of the other text links at the top of any wiki page.

For simplicity sake could you make all text links no matter where they are have an underline when you hover your cursor on them?
Thank You

raffy · #68 Post by **raffy** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 02:43

OK, done, but if there are remaining problems, please take note of the theme (template) used as well as the section in the page, as the css is quite complex this time.

puppyite · #69 Post by **puppyite** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 12:47

Raffy,
The word PuppyLinux still does not give me an underline when I hover my cursor on it. Something is way wrong. Either there is a mysterious technical problem or I have completely failed to communicate my desires to you.

If it’s a technical problem then I have no idea what it might be. I can’t see your monitor and you can’t see mine so my only option is to give a verbal explanation of what I see at the wiki.

Don’t be offended but in order to dispense with any possibility of a miscommunication I must now be very literal. RE: Links that have an underline when you hover your cursor over them.

CSS example:

Code: Select all

<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<style type="text/css">
<!--
a {  text-decoration: none}
a:hover {  text-decoration: underline}
-->
</style>
</head>

<body>

This text: <a href="#">PuppyLinux</a> does not have an underline *until* you hover your mouse on it. When you move your cursor off this text link the underline disappears.

</body>
</html>

A screen shot of this (wiki page with my cursor and the underline) might be better but as I can’t (at present) find a way to do this my only other option would be to fake it by combining a cursor with a screenshot and posting that. If you feel this would be helpful say so and I will.

raffy · #70 Post by **raffy** » Fri 09 Oct 2009, 14:24

Yes, weird. I did it this morning using Puppies (Firefox 3.53?) and all was well. Now am using BoxPup with Opera and Firepup and I see what you saw, no underlines in links above and under the content proper.

Will check on the css again and plug all the holes.

EDIT: I noticed that I have to refresh my browser to see the effect of the new CSS - the old CSS is cached (this depends on the browser setting as to how often the file is checked for changes).

puppyite · #71 Post by **puppyite** » Mon 12 Oct 2009, 19:54

All links on the wiki are now underlined during mouseover. Good work Raffy.

Lobster · #72 Post by **Lobster** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 07:24

this comment - please register and inform

hey how to register in the site i could not find any page which allows me to register in this site ..............
juunaloke@gmail.com is my mail id

raffy · #73 Post by **raffy** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 08:10

Clicking on register will bring him to what we discussed already:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=346801#346801

Anyway, I have emailed him at the given address.

ADD: He has replied:

I want to download Puppy-Linux latest version in dvd -x86- format

He looks like another user who saw the need to (1) register to read a wiki page or (2) to supply username and password to complete a download.

How to solve this? I use this in my email signature:

Code: Select all

You do not need a password to browse Puppy Linux sites.
Only some downloads require user=puppy password=linux

IMO this information has to be placed in every wikka wiki page, and the footer is a good place for this. Suggestions are welcome.

Note on downloads: Repositories maintained by MU and Eric require the username/password combination, but other download sites do not.

Lobster · #74 Post by **Lobster** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 13:04

Suggestions are welcome

Use a captcha and allow people to register as has been suggested
the point of a wiki is to get people to use and edit
(as far as I know)

the old wiki still has many pages that need moving
http://pupweb.org/wikka/PuppyLinuxMainPage

any more editors available?

puppyite · #75 Post by **puppyite** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 13:20

If possible I suggest we clear up any confusion about this point first:

raffy wrote:He looks like another user who saw the need to (1) register to read a wiki page

A search for the word register resulted in three page hits. None of those pages state that a user must register to read the wiki. I have not found any wiki page that says a visitor must register to read it.

If you have seen any text on the wiki that states or implies that a visitor must register in order to visit or read a page on the wiki please tell me where I may find it and I will amend it with a proper notice.

puppyite · #76 Post by **puppyite** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 13:37

Lobster wrote:
Suggestions are welcome
Use a captcha and allow people to register as has been suggested
the point of a wiki is to get people to use and edit

You made this suggestion before. The concept of automated wiki registration has been discussed and rejected in this very thread by Raffy and I. The reasons are obvious to us but apparently not to you.

IMO having people send Raffy an email requesting to become a wiki contributor does not create any meaningful impediment. If anything it means that people wishing to become contributors have the patience to wait the short time necessary for Raffy to send them a username and password. This bodes well in that these contributors might also show some prudence while editing the wiki. I.E. They have an attention span greater than a flea (unlike some I know).

(as far as I know)

What you know is less than I ever imagined possible in a sentient being.

puppyite · #77 Post by **puppyite** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 13:58

Wiki Editing Activity:

There are currently 78 registered users who are empowered to edit any page on the wiki. Of these only 11 have ever edited a wiki page. While I see no harm in registering all who request registration it appears to me that what’s needed is more editing by those people who are already registered to do so.

Lobster and coolpup currently dominate the wiki. Out of a total of 208 pages they have created 147. I find this a sorry state of affairs due to the fact neither of them has sufficient language to write articles that IMO are useful to the average user. I.E. People just starting out in Puppy and Linux. If this trend continues the wiki will become hopelessly muddled, if it isn't already.

I hear you ask: If you think that Puppyite why haven’t you edited their pages so that average users can understand them?

I reply: I have attempted to do this however the push back I received from them has made it impossible for me to make any headway in this respect. I.E. They either ignore me or they slowly undo my edits until their mutterings are reinstated.

My stance now is why should I waste my time trying to help people (Lobster and coolpup) who don’t want it and can't appreciate it's value?

I will continue to contribute to the wiki by correcting coding errors in articles and adding navigation aids. I have removed all articles that I wrote specifically for the wiki and I will no longer write original articles for it. Why should I bother? Lobster and coolpup will not learn from my example and it is likely impossible for me to teach them how to write or for them to learn.

raffy · #78 Post by **raffy** » Fri 16 Oct 2009, 23:40

puppyite wrote:My stance now is why should I waste my time trying to help...

The possible answer is "hope", ie, that the wikka wiki would be a better place for new as well as old users.

But looking now at the page http://puppylinux.org/wikka/howPuppyWorks, it is easy to see that little has been done to ease the confusion to the average user. The reasons (in detail):

1. The first given URL points to a non-existent page. The next URL also leads to non-existent page: http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyInAnutshell/edit

2. All the other URLs (beginning with the PuppyInAnutshell URL given above) contain the "edit" code which would bring up a "Register" prompt to all guest (unregistered) users.

[EDIT: I got it now: a URL that points to a non-existent page (in the same wikka wiki) will have "edit" automatically appended to it. Therefore, make sure that the page exists before you link to it.]

3. Are the page contents still current? We may not achieve 100% current, but the page definitely should TRY to be current (the page, as it is now, would fail the test).

This is a basic (but it is still a non-current) page. Moreover, in this discussion, I have repeatedly called attention to preventing the "edit" code in URLs (that misleads the reader to think that s/he needs to register to browse the wikka wiki). Obviously, nothing was done about it.

Is there hope for improving the wikka wiki? How should we go about it?

In discussing this, perhaps we should be guided by the need to make the wikka wiki:
- current/simple
- newbie-friendly
- use URLs that actually lead to existing/helpful pages or content

Have I just validated Puppyite's observations? If "Yes", shall we give Puppyite a chance to take charge of the wikka wiki, or call for new admin-volunteers? (Puppyite is currently an admin, with access rights equal to Lobster and coolpup.)

NOTE: Am really very sorry (to both Lobster and coolpup) to make this post, but I have to tell it as it is. I will be unusually busy today and tomorrow, so will try to be back by Tuesday, Oct 20.

puppyite · #79 Post by **puppyite** » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 22:04

raffy wrote:The possible answer is "hope", ie, that the wikka wiki would be a better place for new as well as old users.

I have not ceased working on the wiki.

[EDIT: I get it now: a URL that points to a non-existent page (in the same wikka wiki) will have "edit" automatically appended to it. Therefore, make sure that the page exists before you link to it.]

Or put double quotes around any CamelCase words until such time as a wiki page by that name actually exists. Example:

Code: Select all

""PuppyInAnutshell""

Note: CamelCase words in wiki articles that point to nonexistent pages have a dashed underline.

raffy · #80 Post by **raffy** » Fri 13 Nov 2009, 10:43

This is just a note to record that the wikka wiki is up again with a new host as of 10:24 GMT Nov 13, 2009. It was down for sometime from about 400 GMT Nov 9, 2009 because of security problem in the old host. The referrers table became empty because of connection problems at restore time, but that should not be much of a problem.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

New Wiki needs editors

Usability errors

Re: Usability errors

done

done

yes

click

Re:

hope

Re: hope

Wikka is up again