Automatic updates

[oldyeller]

I'm not opposes to having program that downloads and installs program and/or file updates.

But this is NOT about downloading and much more installing anything!!!
This is only about automatically letting the user know that an update exists.
What the users does with this information is its own business. (s)he may choose "blindly" to download and update or check the forum to see what is it about before (s)he download and install or just ignore it.

Regarding the nature of the update itself is up to the developer what information may or may not provide about it in advance, ie before you download or before you install.

Currently, BK that is using service_pack, and 666philb that is using quickpet "tahr bug fix", provide information about the content of the update only in the forum and after you install the update.

But again you are not talking about "automatic updates" here, we are talking about "automatic information about available updates".
That is why I' keep being surprised that people "do not want to know"!

This is the first that I recall about it being about information. If that is the case than that would be OK. As long there is not a pop-up any where except in the ppm about the information.

[mavrothal]

This is the first that I recall about it being about information. If that is the case than that would be OK. As long there is not a pop-up any where except in the ppm about the information.

But the poll reads

Automatic check for updates.
YES. The user can authorize automatic checks
NO. No the user should only check manually

And the text of the first post says:

However, such a system does require the user to authorize (once) automatic connection and status-check with ibilio.org.

What do you think? Should future puppies include this security/stability/bugfix feature or should the individual user should be responsible of checking regularly for updates and bugfixes?

And further reaffirmed it in many other cases after that.

Maybe was clear enough but I really do not know what else to do.
It would appear that people read more to it than what is written down.
As I said before is the "M$-exposure" effect

[ardvark]

This is only about automatically letting the user know that an update exists.

...Which is bothersome to me, I don't like update programs (or any other program) that keep popping up even when I tell them I don't want them to or leaves me an icon on the toolbar with a balloon that keeps popping up for me to enable it. I will take care of it manually.

Also, the program needs to fully state the information I've mentioned without users having to go somewhere else for it. This would be helpful for newer users or those without much experience in using computers. With Linux especially, update packages can break others. I've experienced that for myself.

If an option was allowed where a user could choose one or the other (automatically and the format which I've mentioned was offered) and the program was respectful of that choice then I would be willing to be supportive of your request.

Regards...

[oldyeller]

OK, I stand corrected on this. I guess when it comes to the word automatic for most for computers like updates or information. Some of us just don't like that word when it applies to things getting installed that the user has no control of.

I came to puppy for the fact that no one could install anything on my computer unless I did it. So since this is about information on updates. Than it is a good thing since you have already stated that it would be on the user to check on the updates and what it will affect and the possibility of it causing other problems. Than I will say yes to this poll.

Cheers and Have a good day

[mavrothal]

This is only about automatically letting the user know that an update exists.

...Which is bothersome to me, I don't like update programs

But this is an opt-in feature. Do not activate it!
(and really checks once a week and has no balloons of any kind- Forget windows. Really)

The issue is that by voting "no" in a propose opt-in feature it implies that you want nobody else to have this option.

[bark_bark_bark]

before we start talking automatic updates, we should first discuss securing the servers where these packages come from.

[mavrothal]

before we start talking automatic updates, we should first discuss securing the servers where these packages come from.

Updates (both BK's and philb's) are coming currently form ibiblio.org.
I do not think that we can do anything about ibiblio.org. If anything happens to it we'll know immediately. Is the oldest and one of the most extensive digital library and archive site.

[ardvark]

But this is an opt-in feature. Do not activate it!
(and really checks once a week and has no balloons of any kind- Forget windows. Really)

Hi...

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

Regards...

[zigbert]

If someone would like to build an automatic updater/checker in woof, that would be just perfect. Ok, I would appreciate if it was optional for the Puppy-builder to include it.

I have put much resources into the updated jwm-tools in Woof, but no one has ever used it. - Still no reason for me to be upset. I have still at least 3 options:
- Ask the builders how they want it, and meet their requests.
- Build a Puppy that is (in my opinion) better than the existing.
- Accept the fact that another dog has offered better code than mine.

I seldom ask for agreement of my projects. We are too different, and all of us will never agree. Just do it, and if it is good, the code will be used... in the end.

do-ocracy advocate
Sigmund

[mavrothal]

If someone would like to build an automatic updater/checker in woof, that would be just perfect. Ok, I would appreciate if it was optional for the Puppy-builder to include it.

I have put much resources into the updated jwm-tools in Woof, but no one has ever used it. - Still no reason for me to be upset. I have still at least 3 options:
- Ask the builders how they want it, and meet their requests.
- Build a Puppy that is (in my opinion) better than the existing.
- Accept the fact that another dog has offered better code than mine.

I seldom ask for agreement of my projects. We are too different, and all of us will never agree. Just do it, and if it is good, the code will be used... in the end.

do-ocracy advocate
Sigmund

Oh I agree with you. That's why I put the code out that can check for both for tahr bug fixes and service packs.

Here we just have a simple "philosophical" discussion and as you know, religion, politics and "philosophy" can be upsetting at times

[zigbert]

and as you know, religion, politics and "philosophy" can be upsetting at times

Oh yeah

[gcmartin]

Hi @Mavrothal

and as you know, religion, politics and "philosophy" can be upsetting at times

This thread is an excellent representation of a method of how to get membership to understand this feature and how to apply it to their benefit.

I am not sure that technology has a place in either of the things you quote (seems more a oranges to apple comparison to me), but technology presents a pathway to deliverable solutions.

I agree with @Zigbert about presenting items that get overlooked. This happens a lot in this industry as often times the user may not see/understand/take the time to consider ideas that may step a little beyond the traditional. There is so much forward-thinking technology that is floating around in Puppyland (and Linux/Unix) that it is impossible to keep it all in proper focus leading to proper usage.

Thanks to everyone who has aired in this thread as it helps EVERYONE to see our thoughts in a collective fashion. These kinds of discussions leads to a more well positioned method to solutions. A discussion with feedback is a necessary part of any "do-ocracy". The feedback mechanism is important in planning, creation, testing, and implementation.

PLDF gives us all of this to community benefit.

[8Geee]

But really just clicking on MENU reveals that we already have updates from slackware, and Puppy Package Manager in the slacko-puppiies. I really don't see the need for one more updater. Keeping these repositories updated is a better solution. Keeping a security focus, or expediting security upgrades like the recent bash/openssl/wget changes serves the community well.

[mavrothal]

But really just clicking on MENU reveals that we already have updates from slackware, and Puppy Package Manager in the slacko-puppiies. I really don't see the need for one more updater. Keeping these repositories updated is a better solution. Keeping a security focus, or expediting security upgrades like the recent bash/openssl/wget changes serves the community well.

But this in NOT ANOTHER UPDATER (for 10th time...) Is to let you know that the programs that you mentioned DO HAVE updates available for you to check.
Not everyone checks the forum/PPM/Updatemanager regularly. People do use their machines to actually do some work or just have fun...

[James C]

But really just clicking on MENU reveals that we already have updates from slackware, and Puppy Package Manager in the slacko-puppiies. I really don't see the need for one more updater. Keeping these repositories updated is a better solution. Keeping a security focus, or expediting security upgrades like the recent bash/openssl/wget changes serves the community well.

But this in NOT ANOTHER UPDATER (for 10th time...) Is to let you know that the programs that you mentioned DO HAVE updates available for you to check.
Not everyone checks the forum/PPM/Updatemanager regularly. People do use their machines to actually do some work or just have fun...

It appears they have discovered your plans for world domination via Puppy computers........

[mavrothal]

But really just clicking on MENU reveals that we already have updates from slackware, and Puppy Package Manager in the slacko-puppiies. I really don't see the need for one more updater. Keeping these repositories updated is a better solution. Keeping a security focus, or expediting security upgrades like the recent bash/openssl/wget changes serves the community well.

But this in NOT ANOTHER UPDATER (for 10th time...) Is to let you know that the programs that you mentioned DO HAVE updates available for you to check.
Not everyone checks the forum/PPM/Updatemanager regularly. People do use their machines to actually do some work or just have fun...

It appears they have discovered your plans for world domination via Puppy computers........

Bummer... That's my second failure after I tried to forge the 7-dollar bill

[calimero8282]

i vote yes