Puppy Squeeze 009 Development

Message

aragon · #601 Post by **aragon** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 06:22

Hi iguleder,

As i'm not able to test it atm, one question:

Did you include dbus as a 'base'-package?

Most modern browser rely on dbus, so much user will have to install dbus. If you include it in the base and compile your apps against it, they could also 'use' their dbus-based features.

aragon

#602 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 07:17

as aragon said you need dbus and also dbus-glib also usually I system link all the included .so dep's to the lib folder.
Also why is it 150MB now, I will not download bloated puppy releases like puppy 5 and this release. When this release started around 130MB you talking about reducing the size, well a 20MB growth is over the top.
ttuuxxx

Iguleder · #603 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 08:10

15 MB is DRI, don't forget that

Size went down - we replaced many applications with small alternatives. And we're not fanatic about old hardware support as far as I know ...

And I won't download any bloated 2.14x release ... stop all the politics, ttuuxxx.

aragon: we have dbus, yes.

DaveS · #604 Post by **DaveS** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 08:27

Iguleder, could you upgrade your fontwizard sometime to include full range of hint options please?

Iguleder · #605 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 08:45

I could write a new one but the problem is monitors, I have two (one is LCD, the other is my netbook's LED) so I can't test it.

EDIT: the recompiled kernel is ready and the PET is 11 MB. Arghhhhh ... so big ... can't stand the size ... eeeeek ...

#606 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 09:19

Iguleder wrote:
And I won't download any bloated 2.14x release ... stop all the politics, ttuuxxx.

.

I wasn't talking about politics, I'm talking about 150MB puppy that doesn't even have gimp, and 2.14X is 118 MB with an older squash sfs, If it had the latest or the one used in Dpup, It would be around 100MB or a bit less.
Well lets sing a song, lol I just rewrote row,row,row your boat

Roll, Roll,Roll your bloat
Gently down the dsl stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a 100MB dream.

ttuuxxx

Iguleder · #607 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 09:50

You live in a fantasy. Be realistic, software grows over time and Pentium 2 computers with 64 MB of RAM are history.

You just run against the wind and spit at the face of those who don't see things the way you do. Maybe you haven't noticed, your crap ends up on your face when you shit on others as you just did. You can't force others to think like you and you don't have the right to blame others for not being perfect like you or your 2.14x.

This is pathetic. You should be ashamed.

Respect and self respect, ttuuxxx. I guess you skipped that lesson.

01micko · #608 Post by **01micko** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 09:51

Now, now gentlemen, may I interject here?

Ttuuxxx and Iguleder, you are 2 of the most talented guys around here. Let's not forget that to maintain Debian compatibility that debian libs are used, they inherently have more dependencies, it is part of the philosophy of woof, and I quote... "

Rationale
Up until recently, Puppy had a build system called Puppy Unleashed, which accessed a repository of PET packages and built a live-CD with your choice of packages. There are various problems with this arrangement:

PET packages are heavily cut-down binary packages. There is often a lot of work in creating a PET package as we trim out all the fat.
Having a repository of PET binary packages means that we are also legally obliged to maintain a repository of the source packages.
Upgrading all the core infrastructure packages, such as glibc, gcc, gtk, cups, ghostscript and the other system libraries and creating new PET packages and 'devx' file then getting it all to work, takes us a very long time.

"

214X is great and has it's place, as does dpup and any other woof build from other distro's binary packages.

It is a matter of personal choice whether you consider dpup (or whatever build from woof) "bloat".

Lets' not let this degenerate further and get on with the real stuff

.

Cheers

cac · #609 Post by **cac** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 09:58

214X is great and has it's place

on stone age computers???

With computing power increasing so much, I can't see why a slight increase in size is such a problem.....

#610 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 10:08

cac wrote:
214X is great and has it's place
on stone age computers???

With computing power increasing so much, I can't see why a slight increase in size is such a problem.....

That's a pretty bold post for a fist time posting new user on here.
ttuuxxx

cac · #611 Post by **cac** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 10:17

i like throwing myself in the deep end ttuuxxx.....

seriously though, as previously said, puppy 2.14x (and other lightweight O/S's) has its place....on older computers that don't have enough RAM to load the larger versions up...and that's fine.....all I'm saying is that its not really an issue for there to be a larger version these days, as the technology is moving so quickly that using a little extra RAM isn't such a problem...

speaking of bloated operating systems too.......try getting Vista to run properly on less than 1GB RAM.....

DaveS · #612 Post by **DaveS** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 10:37

Stuck behind a Win 7 pc today. Ram.. 4gig, Nvidia Gforce, dual core 2.2G and it runs like it is in treacle. YUK! Be glad to get home and boot Puppy.

Iguleder · #613 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 11:19

Got more stuff for 010:
- New mhwaveedit, already posted
- New CPU frequency scaling tool
- rgbPaint now replaces InkscapeLite
- Another 2.6.32.24 kernel ... let's hope this one works like the one from 009

Sylvander · #614 Post by **Sylvander** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 12:44

Improved and updated PET file for installing the "X File Explorer" = Xfe.

Changed to this version in Dpup-009 [now updated to 010], because the previous Xfe [Xfe-1.19.2.pet] wouldn't run due to missing the dependency = libFOX-1.6.so.0

pemasu · #615 Post by **pemasu** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 13:16

Puppy iso 100 Mb or 150 Mb does not make any difference for me.

Ability to use subdir (couldnt get it work in 2.14X ) makes difference, recent enough kernel to be used in modern laptops makes differense, rfkill, suspend to ram, Fn keys easy enable aka Xbindkeys-config makes difference and long lasting support makes difference.

Also the ability to fix posted problems and willingness to do that is important.
I like to test and post problems and help my small way.
And I try to not use my Windows 7 also. I succeed in it about 95 % nowadays, thanks to many nice puplets.

I just dont like when skillful people steps to anothers toes.

Please behave.....

Iguleder · #616 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 13:26

Built a "release candidate" of 010 and there were no icons in the menu and no kernel modules were loaded.

I added the Wary repo to the list of Puppy repos and it seems its packages are incompatible with Debian Squeeze for some reason - module-init-tools and netpbm were broken. Other packages were faulty too. Took about 5 hours to build this broken Puppy.

Now I'm running a fresh, unmodified Woof, but this time without Wary, as in 009 and all other Squeeze versions. I'll try it with both 2.6.32.24 and 2.6.35.7.

Jim1911 · #617 Post by **Jim1911** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 13:51

01micko wrote:Now, now gentlemen, may I interject here?

Ttuuxxx and Iguleder, you are 2 of the most talented guys around here. Let's not forget that to maintain Debian compatibility that debian libs are used, they inherently have more dependencies, it is part of the philosophy of woof, and I quote... "
Rationale
Up until recently, Puppy had a build system called Puppy Unleashed, which accessed a repository of PET packages and built a live-CD with your choice of packages. There are various problems with this arrangement:

PET packages are heavily cut-down binary packages. There is often a lot of work in creating a PET package as we trim out all the fat.
Having a repository of PET binary packages means that we are also legally obliged to maintain a repository of the source packages.
Upgrading all the core infrastructure packages, such as glibc, gcc, gtk, cups, ghostscript and the other system libraries and creating new PET packages and 'devx' file then getting it all to work, takes us a very long time.
"

214X is great and has it's place, as does dpup and any other woof build from other distro's binary packages.

It is a matter of personal choice whether you consider dpup (or whatever build from woof) "bloat".

Lets' not let this degenerate further and get on with the real stuff .

Cheers

AMEN! Personally, the first thing I do with a new distribution is install OpenOffice, Amarok, Bibletime, Wine and many other applications that greatly increase the size of the base distribution. It doesn't bother me or my hardware that I'm duplicating many applications that are already on the distribution. I'm not alone, otherwise their would be no demand for extras such as Quickpet, Gslapt, and PPM to ease the installation of additional applications. What's important is that the applications that are desired work properly on the base distribution, not an arbitrary size of the base. As Mick said, "Lets' not let this degenerate further and get on with the real stuff." which is keeping the base puppy distributions on the leading edge as well as continuing to support older hardware.

Thanks to all of you for your vast contributions that continue to make puppy the best.

Jim

Iguleder · #618 Post by **Iguleder** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 15:17

Uploaded deltas to the 010 beta, they're here.

The kernel is 2.6.32.24. Sound works fine and the first drive is sda on my desktop machine. For some reason there is the option to select the keyboard layout before xorgwizard but the country and timezone thing is still missing and I don't know why. This area needs investigation.

New stuff since 009:
- HomeBank, Uget, fpm2, Luvcview, mhwaveedit, Viewnior, rgbPaint, bluez-gnome, lxrandr, pcpufreq (a tiny utility I wrote for 5.2, replaces cpu-scaling-ondemand or whatever it was)
- optipng, advancecomp, strippkg and splitpkg are now included in the devx, good if you want to make perfectly trimmed packages

- Bigger fonts in xchat, Seamonkey URL handling
- New GTK theme
- No barks, ALSA volume at 0, tray icons appear only after the welcome page (these issues will be gone with the next Woof).
- Other stuff I forgot

EDIT: the power applet doesn't work because it relies on some deprecated interfaces in /proc. I'm recompiling the kernel at the moment.

nancy reagan · #619 Post by **nancy reagan** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 16:30

cac wrote:
214X is great and has it's place
on stone age computers???

With computing power increasing so much, I can't see why a slight increase in size is such a problem.....

Puppy's core business = the max with the min

It is just magic to see what great things those small dogs can do.

One can always add more and more extra personal software to the core, even without installing, which, in my opinion is magic.

For your non-stone aged computer there are enough fat linux versions, so why not look there.

Enough people with a new life for initially discarded computers.

dejan555 · #620 Post by **dejan555** » Thu 14 Oct 2010, 16:55

And there are also lighter puppy versions and older ones

series 2/3/4 won't disapear, isos are still available for download, you just take what's best for your PC.
150 MB puppy still runs very good on most PCs and it's good compromise between support for old and new hardware and features.
Remember that lupu is about 120-130 MB with a striped unsecure browser and without DRI so from that perspective and when looking from linux world in general squeeze is still the magic OS

And as micko01 said, woof is intended to build from other repos and includes more dependencies for many packages so there are many libs in core backend that might not be in older puppies but that also has it's advantages because they're more compatible with newer apps and enable more features.

kk people, so don't get mad at me now

that's just my point of view the most important is: Chill out and don't get negative

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Puppy Squeeze 009 Development

Puppy's core business = the max with the min