(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

My advise to Linux users: PATIENCE!

But it can be so hard sometimes hribarj.

@roky It was ignorant of me to expect free help from the type of individuals who choose to use this terrible platform. Your generic advise didn't help and wasn't appreciated.

We are Just volunteers. Just trying to do the pay it foward. Kinda like Old Bikers around a campfire showing the younger bikers the tricks we have learned through experience.

Being a Biker myself. Not a IT professional. Disrespect me at a Campfire, you might end up on your butt.

Online. You just made the ignore list. I can relate to being a babe lost in the woods. I can't relate to being disrespectful or not being polite when requesting help , whether a windows user,linux user or a biker.

If the above person had been a biker and his motorcycle had broke down and I pulled over to give assistance. Well. With that attitude. He would have seen my dust trail.

I can only speak for myself. If you have the desire for adventure. Follow instructions from heads wiser than you.

Be Respectful

I for one will do my best if it is my my power to help. AS do many other members on this forum do. You will be surprised actually on the knowledge base here at Murga and the friendly responses on this forum. I am a Happy Harley Rider and Puppy Linux user.

Happy Trails, Rok

my feed back, after a couple of days, is its likely rebuilding a car engine with the instuctions from ikea, there are pages of instruction bthey mean nothing to me, open this,,,, tranfere to that,, open a fat partision on your hard drive, a what ? i keep going from one ref source to another trying to find a starting point that i understand

I know this is largly my problem, but i cant be alone in finding it pages of jibberish, there needs to be a idiots dummies guide that assumes no prior knowlwdge at all and takes you through it in a logical order

the problem is , that very clever people who know it backwards cant believe you need to be told something as obvious as that, where as i do

jobo wrote:

there needs to be a idiots dummies guide that assumes no prior knowledge at all and takes you through it in a logical order

Try these:
http://www.puppylinux.com
http://www.puppylinux.org
Take your time and read thoroughly.

thanks
but the feedback im giving as a renewbee pupy user, at now 3 days and about 30 hours hair pulling, is that if linux in general and pupy in particular want to get out the computer fanatic market and into the main stream then its needs to be able to install and have it operating at a base level in about 4 hours, any persistance beyond that is based on being obsesive or in my case desperate, any one who just want to use a computer to do somethingwould just give up

the fixation with using a cd is a ( my) problem, but as its designed for old/ailing computers, having a prerequirement that you are either an expert or have a cd burner is a barrier to its use

one of those links gave the advice that if you dont have a computer with a cd burner, then get one ? if i had a working computer with a burner i wouldnt be doing this in the first place, if fact cds at all are becoming rares with notebookes etc

G'day all,

I'm fairly new to linux in general and Puppy in particular, I'm finding it a bit clunky especially after MacOSX. To fill everyone in, my son-in-law gave me an old Hp t5000 series thin client and told me about small linux OSes that work. Bless his cotton socks... ggrrr Darren.

Anyway, the upshot is that I have been playing with Puppy for about a month now and sort of enjoying it, it certainly is challenging. In short, I have had one install that went well until I somehow blew the boot sector, in the process of trying to clone the working install to a larger pendrive.

Fortunately, I was able to get my second install, after a few false starts mostly due to not making notes along the way, loaded onto a 4Gb pendrive. Unfortunately, this install doesn't seem to be as good, not sure why, as it was done from the same liveCD as the first, I'm using Slacko 5.3, and it seems quite good generally but some things seem to be broken or just very slow to start.

Over the next little while, I will be posting questions to resolve some of these issues. In the meantime, I will be trying things to find out how the whole system works. I've had a little experience with command line stuff through OSX Terminal but some/most commands are different or not available in Puppy compared to OSX, for obvious reasons.

I will continue to use OSX as my main OS but will continue to hammer Puppy into shape as long as I can find something useful to use it for, I have an idea for it.

Ok, I'll say 'woof, woof' for now and catch you later in the forum.

if linux in general and pupy in particular want to get out the computer fanatic market and into the main stream

Why would we want to do that?
Mainstream is no FUN.

WindUpToy wrote:

if linux in general and pupy in particular want to get out the computer fanatic market and into the main stream

Why would we want to do that?
Mainstream is no FUN.

i thought it was in the ''mission statement'' of the linux community to allow the wider public in on the fun and break the strangle hold MS has on the computer market, other wise there is no point in developing user friendly interfaces

the fact is that the benefit of linux is you can mess with it, the downside is you have to mess with it if you want to or not just to get any sort of functionality in it at all. if i could just get it working at base level i could then take my time learning how to make it do more do it better, but i cant even get passed level one and judging by the number of questions in here, neither can quite a lot of people

as the point i made above it seems to require a base level of computer knowledge well above that of the average windows user just to get started

burning an ISO is by no means an easy process for us newbies, even if they had a cd burner

there must be technical reasons why there cant be an automated process of down load, press install and it works at base level, but until there is, it seems destined to remain in the hobby class

my failed install has taught me a lot about how computers operate and i feel im ready to learn the next stage,, but it still doesnt work and im at a complete loss what to do next other than keep checking my post to see if any one has offered any help to me yet on what to do next

just to up date my feed back above, ive now achieved my aim of a running puppy in win 98 with no cd burner or live cd, which looking at it now could have been done in under two hours with some ease, reinforcing the point i made above, maybe walking round with a bemused distracted look for a few days is the rite of passage for linux, but i suspect many would have given it up by day two

jobo wrote:

maybe walking round with a bemused distracted look for a few days is the rite of passage for linux

This also applies to Windows.
It, too, is a challenge for newbies to learn.
Because it has been around for decades, people tend to forget that.

Dewbie wrote:jobo wrote:

maybe walking round with a bemused distracted look for a few days is the rite of passage for linux

This also applies to Windows.
It, too, is a challenge for newbies to learn.
Because it has been around for decades, people tend to forget that.

We aren't just talking about "using", but the discussion is referring to installation of the OS...

Puppy Linux is far easier to install than Windows (and far, far faster to install, and to load).

jobo wrote:

WindUpToy wrote:

if linux in general and pupy in particular want to get out the computer fanatic market and into the main stream

Why would we want to do that?
Mainstream is no FUN.

i thought it was in the ''mission statement'' of the linux community to allow the wider public in on the fun and break the strangle hold MS has on the computer market, other wise there is no point in developing user friendly interfaces

the fact is that the benefit of linux is you can mess with it, the downside is you have to mess with it if you want to or not just to get any sort of functionality in it at all. if i could just get it working at base level i could then take my time learning how to make it do more do it better, but i cant even get passed level one and judging by the number of questions in here, neither can quite a lot of people

I like the fact that Puppy isn't loaded with every piece of software known to man. This keeps it small and fast.

The average user doesn't need much more than the ability to make a spreadsheet, write a document, watch a video, and browse the web. Puppy does all of those very well.

If you want access to every software name known to man, you may want to try WinXP, Win7, Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, .... All of them are very large, all of them take quite long to boot (or login), as a result of their size.

as the point i made above it seems to require a base level of computer knowledge well above that of the average windows user just to get started

That would also be true to install Win98 (or XP, or 7) on a computer... Try performing a Win98 on a system with a new, blank HDD...

Puppy has the advantage that doesn't actually need to be installed on the HDD, one can just boot the live-CD.

If the user wants, they can plug in a flash drive and run their lupsave from there (then it doesn't even need the HDD). I did this for probably 6 months, before ever moving my savefile to the hard drive. Then I ran another 6 months live-booting the CD, before I decided to link it into the boot sequence.

On older systems (with Win98 or XP installed), I recommend the Lin'N'Win method.

http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwi ... innwin.htm

This will allow you to hook into the existing Windows boot sequence, adding your frugal Puppy install.

burning an ISO is by no means an easy process for us newbies, even if they had a cd burner

If you are using Windows, get ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/

RetroTechGuy wrote:

jobo wrote:

WindUpToy wrote: Why would we want to do that?
Mainstream is no FUN.

i thought it was in the ''mission statement'' of the linux community to allow the wider public in on the fun and break the strangle hold MS has on the computer market, other wise there is no point in developing user friendly interfaces

the fact is that the benefit of linux is you can mess with it, the downside is you have to mess with it if you want to or not just to get any sort of functionality in it at all. if i could just get it working at base level i could then take my time learning how to make it do more do it better, but i cant even get passed level one and judging by the number of questions in here, neither can quite a lot of people

I like the fact that Puppy isn't loaded with every piece of software known to man. This keeps it small and fast.

The average user doesn't need much more than the ability to make a spreadsheet, write a document, watch a video, and browse the web. Puppy does all of those very well.

If you want access to every software name known to man, you may want to try WinXP, Win7, Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, .... All of them are very large, all of them take quite long to boot (or login), as a result of their size.

as the point i made above it seems to require a base level of computer knowledge well above that of the average windows user just to get started

That would also be true to install Win98 (or XP, or 7) on a computer... Try performing a Win98 on a system with a new, blank HDD...

Puppy has the advantage that doesn't actually need to be installed on the HDD, one can just boot the live-CD.

If the user wants, they can plug in a flash drive and run their lupsave from there (then it doesn't even need the HDD). I did this for probably 6 months, before ever moving my savefile to the hard drive. Then I ran another 6 months live-booting the CD, before I decided to link it into the boot sequence.

On older systems (with Win98 or XP installed), I recommend the Lin'N'Win method.

http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwi ... innwin.htm

This will allow you to hook into the existing Windows boot sequence, adding your frugal Puppy install.

burning an ISO is by no means an easy process for us newbies, even if they had a cd burner

If you are using Windows, get ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/

its not my intent to start a windows v puppy debate, i think ONCE installed puppy wins hands down, but for ease of first installation then windows wins every time i can load XP on a new hdisc in 2 hours including going and buying the disk, another half hour down loading the programs and im off, its taken me several days of concerted effort to get to the same point with linux. i accept your live disc point, but in my case i cant burn a disc or boot from usb so install it is what ihad to do

that link youve posted above waisted several hours of my time as it tells you to down load isobuster for the win98 installation, but the link given wont work on win98 ? earlier versions dont seem to allow for checking the iso aaar

so, i have the ability to load a windows OS, but not it seems any where near enough to do the same with puppy in less than a working week

i can do it now in under half an hour, but thats not the point, im not a first timer any more and have hours of experiance. maybe in a few months il join the '' i cant believe you find it difficult'' crew ?
im now dowloading pups out of the built in rep that load, tell me their ok but wont launch, proberbly another couple of days to figure that out ?

jobo wrote:

RetroTechGuy wrote:

burning an ISO is by no means an easy process for us newbies, even if they had a cd burner

If you are using Windows, get ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/

its not my intent to start a windows v puppy debate, i think ONCE installed puppy wins hands down, but for ease of first installation then windows wins every time i can load XP on a new hdisc in 2 hours including going and buying the disk, another half hour down loading the programs

2 1/2 hours versus about 5 minutes...sounds like a good deal to me...

i accept your live disc point, but in my case i cant burn a disc or boot from usb so install it is what ihad to do

No libraries near you, where you could use a machine? Or a friend's machine?

that link youve posted above waisted several hours of my time as it tells you to down load isobuster for the win98 installation,

Are you telling me that I need to boot this machine down into Win98 to see what version of ImgBurn I have installed?

I never had to use "isobuster" to get ImgBurn to work...

so, i have the ability to load a windows OS, but not it seems any where near enough to do the same with puppy in less than a working week

So your comparison is that you have "burned" (i.e. pressed) Windows disks, but cannot burn a Puppy disk, and therefore Windows is a better system, and easier to install... Whatever...

im now dowloading pups out of the built in rep that load, tell me their ok but wont launch, proberbly another couple of days to figure that out ?

What version of Puppy are you running? I seem to recall you mentioning that you have an old system -- Did you try Lupu 5.25 Retro?

jobo wrote:

that link youve posted above waisted several hours of my time

Suggestion:
Read rokytnji's post at top of this page.

Suggestion:
Try something out-side-the-box.
Buy CD
Try distrowatch.com for Linux vendors, like osdisc.com.
http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/ ... cd-pc.html

Or have an Friend or Family member Burn one on their PC

There is more than one way to skin-a-cat

What this recent discussion tells me is that we need to have some videos available to SHOW potential new users the ways in which Puppy can be downloaded, burnt to CD from within a MicroSoft (or Mac) environment, and then properly installed - full or frugal - on the choice of hard drive or flash drive. Or - like I do now - just copy the 3-4 key files from the ISO to a partition/directory, and manually modify Grub, to install the new puplet without ever burning a CD.
Sincerest apologies if these resources are already available from the new Puppy School and related "For Beginners" pages, as I haven't checked. But visual demonstration is what I personally prefer - especially when I tend to get sidetracked and overwhelmed with well-meant gobbeldy-geek when reading through the forums...
So my vote (again?) is for better advertising for visual references for new users. Sorry to see that jobo has found himself in the same circles that I did when I was starting out in Puppy.

Hmmm - if only there was an online "mentoring" service we could periodically offer for small groups of new users, where an expert / designated guru, could walk them through the main issues with getting up and running.

RetroTechGuy wrote:

jobo wrote:

RetroTechGuy wrote: If you are using Windows, get ImgBurn.

http://www.imgburn.com/

its not my intent to start a windows v puppy debate, i think ONCE installed puppy wins hands down, but for ease of first installation then windows wins every time i can load XP on a new hdisc in 2 hours including going and buying the disk, another half hour down loading the programs

2 1/2 hours versus about 5 minutes...sounds like a good deal to me...

i accept your live disc point, but in my case i cant burn a disc or boot from usb so install it is what ihad to do

No libraries near you, where you could use a machine? Or a friend's machine?

that link youve posted above waisted several hours of my time as it tells you to down load isobuster for the win98 installation,

Are you telling me that I need to boot this machine down into Win98 to see what version of ImgBurn I have installed?

I never had to use "isobuster" to get ImgBurn to work...

so, i have the ability to load a windows OS, but not it seems any where near enough to do the same with puppy in less than a working week

So your comparison is that you have "burned" (i.e. pressed) Windows disks, but cannot burn a Puppy disk, and therefore Windows is a better system, and easier to install... Whatever...

im now dowloading pups out of the built in rep that load, tell me their ok but wont launch, proberbly another couple of days to figure that out ?

What version of Puppy are you running? I seem to recall you mentioning that you have an old system -- Did you try Lupu 5.25 Retro?

no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give, i use computers, i switch them on, i do things , i switch them of fagain, i have no idea how they work, im like the motorists that knows how to put petrol in and change a tyre
and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board

ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop

im very geatfull to the guys that have helped me and apreciate that everything written is from a volinteer, but i was following instructions to the letter if it said iso buster then iso buster was what i was oing to use, as i couldnt check the iso, it may be that my subsequent problems with wery are down to a bad image ? il now down load the one you sugest, it will with out doubt save me time next time , but i didnt know that then

ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded 2.1.1, which is very fast, but now it seems has a repro problem

ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one

which takes us back to the points above, you dont need one live cd you need 4 or 5 to try them out at least on an old machine
so im now trying to decied if i should continue trying to got pups and pets to load in 2.1.6 or change direction again and install something else ?
all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask

jobo wrote: no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give,

Fair enough.

and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board

Well, Windows also has a "root" account (generally called "administrator"). The difference is that Puppy runs as "root" (there is only 1 user, so having both root and user accounts is a little redundant).

I don't know how to solve the lack of a burner. Once the devs provided a burnable, free iso, it's hard to help a newbie on that next step of actually burning the disc. I suspect that a user could go to a library and burn a disc, and most users have a friend with a computer, who could likely burn the disc for them.

ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop

I own a pile of old junkers. The oldest that is left in my pile (I starting purging the really old stuff -- 286's, 386's, 486's and early Pentiums) is a 333 MHz PII laptop. It runs Lupu 5.25 Retro.

ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded

Should be an acceptable CPU (I ran a 900 MHz as my main desktop for a long time -- the 333 is primarily a test-bed).

I think the problem I saw was that you only have 128MB RAM. If you can scrape some extra, it will help (retro people like myself will often give you some for free, if they have any). A swap file or partition will also help. I use the rule that you need a minimum of 512 RAM+Swap (yes, that is more memory intensive than Win98). If you don't have swap space, see my Sig below.

My 333MHz has 256MB RAM, and a 512MB swap.

The 5.25 Retro does pretty well on it, but Firefox really hogs too much memory.

ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one

I think that they meant ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic", rather than the older 2.16. Ttuuxxx maintains and updates his 2.14 version -- I'm planning to try that on my 333 MHz at some point, since I recall it having a much lower memory load (in the range of 65MB idling).

Being up to date, the packages are better supported and also up to date (ttuuxxx ROCKS!!!).

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42553

If you haven't yet found this, it's worth a look:

http://www.smokey01.com/

Smokey01 is supporting stuff for several Devs:

http://www.smokey01.com/devs/

And a directory of ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic":

http://smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/2.14X/

Use the search link in my Sig, to determine what software will do the task your want.

all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask

Perhaps the biggest problem with Win98 is the lack of a newer browser. Even K-Meleon is a few years out of date (give it a try in Win98, it works on most web sites).

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/

RetroTechGuy wrote:

jobo wrote: no, my point is,, ive not come posting to complain ive been asked for feedback as a newbe and thats what im trying to give,

Fair enough.

and my feed back is, that if i was advicing some other novic computer programmer, id tell them that in no circumstances should they attemp this unless they own a live cd, at that point it is as easy and a lot quicker than installing windows, if your doing it with out its extremly difficult for someone who doesnnt know what ''root'' means and cant find the square brackets on this key board

Well, Windows also has a "root" account (generally called "administrator"). The difference is that Puppy runs as "root" (there is only 1 user, so having both root and user accounts is a little redundant).

I don't know how to solve the lack of a burner. Once the devs provided a burnable, free iso, it's hard to help a newbie on that next step of actually burning the disc. I suspect that a user could go to a library and burn a disc, and most users have a friend with a computer, who could likely burn the disc for them.

ive a particular set of circumstances that make things difficult for me at the moment to get out and about and if i wasnt so badly off for money id just have gone and bought a new computer but we are, where we are and im doing this with a very old laptop

I own a pile of old junkers. The oldest that is left in my pile (I starting purging the really old stuff -- 286's, 386's, 486's and early Pentiums) is a 333 MHz PII laptop. It runs Lupu 5.25 Retro.

ive got pup 2.1.6 loaded, i installed wery 5 but it is patheticaly slow, 4 times slower than win98 so is rather defeating the object, i put this down, with no science, to the fact i only have a 800mhz chip but maybe its just a bad install, i gave up eventualy and loaded

Should be an acceptable CPU (I ran a 900 MHz as my main desktop for a long time -- the 333 is primarily a test-bed).

I think the problem I saw was that you only have 128MB RAM. If you can scrape some extra, it will help (retro people like myself will often give you some for free, if they have any). A swap file or partition will also help. I use the rule that you need a minimum of 512 RAM+Swap (yes, that is more memory intensive than Win98). If you don't have swap space, see my Sig below.

My 333MHz has 256MB RAM, and a 512MB swap.

The 5.25 Retro does pretty well on it, but Firefox really hogs too much memory.

ive been told to try clasic pup and notwyour saying lupu retro is the one

I think that they meant ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic", rather than the older 2.16. Ttuuxxx maintains and updates his 2.14 version -- I'm planning to try that on my 333 MHz at some point, since I recall it having a much lower memory load (in the range of 65MB idling).

Being up to date, the packages are better supported and also up to date (ttuuxxx ROCKS!!!).

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=42553

If you haven't yet found this, it's worth a look:

http://www.smokey01.com/

Smokey01 is supporting stuff for several Devs:

http://www.smokey01.com/devs/

And a directory of ttuuxxx's 2.14 "Classic":

http://smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/2.14X/

Use the search link in my Sig, to determine what software will do the task your want.

all i want is a system that works better than win 98 and i can download programs for which doesnt sound like much of an ask

Perhaps the biggest problem with Win98 is the lack of a newer browser. Even K-Meleon is a few years out of date (give it a try in Win98, it works on most web sites).

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/

if any one has 2 x 250 dram knocking about they would stick in an envelope for me that would be grat, im in the uk if that makes any differance to postage etc

yea but root is just an example, the little i know about computers is being a '' competent ''user of windows, so admin means something to me, root doesnt, come to a halt, hit google, learn something, but then repeat with every techical term that i come across and then suddenly a page of instructions takes 3 hours to follow and i get confused between which is which.
im driving the two guys who are helping me mad, with not understanding simple instuctions, open a ''shell'' '' dump to the thingymebob '' file etc etc meaning less to me, spend half an hour googling so not as to appear too stupid, i cant work cut and paist with the txt boxes and they cant believe im that dim, but apparently i am

if i was doing the instructions, id brake it down in to short sections and not assume any prior knowledge, so for this section you need to know that root is,... you find it here,,,

open a shell ,,,its in the following icon,,,,,, its like writing an instuction for someone who grew up in the junge on how to make a cup of tea and assuming they know what a cup is or you need to plug the kettle in first and it really is my failure at that most fundemental level thats causing my problems. but i suggest that people in the world that dont know how to partition a c drive instinctivley are in the majority

jobo wrote: im driving the two guys who are helping me mad, with not understanding simple instuctions, open a ''shell'' '' dump to the thingymebob '' file etc etc meaning less to me, spend half an hour googling so not as to appear too stupid, i cant work cut and paist with the txt boxes and they cant believe im that dim, but apparently i am

if i was doing the instructions, id brake it down in to short sections and not assume any prior knowledge, so for this section you need to know that root is,... you find it here,,,

open a shell ,,,its in the following icon,,,,,, its like writing an instuction for someone who grew up in the junge on how to make a cup of tea and assuming they know what a cup is or you need to plug the kettle in first and it really is my failure at that most fundemental level thats causing my problems. but i suggest that people in the world that dont know how to partition a c drive instinctivley are in the majority

I think that I'm reading that thread right now...

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77980

The terminal icon, is the shell icon (aka "rxvt" on some systems), sits in the top of the screen, about in the middle.

The "connect" button (which tells puppy to connect to the internet) sits on the left side of the screen, in the bottom row of the collection of icons. The actual icon differs depending on the version.

Edit: from the desktop image posted by Semme, the terminal is "console", and connect is 3rd row from top, right edge.