Standardization of Puppy Linux Desktop and App Platform

[Q5sys]

Ha, I don't trust those computers running the lottery machines, I've seen one of them fail once and it was glossed over on the big night..hmmm..

I actually like GTK engine, what I was getting at is whether a little more coding in the Trolltech.conf file could produce good results when we slip into an app that uses QT. So far the tones and pallette examples that I have seen are garish, guess I need to learn how to get some pastel codes and put them in the .conf.

As standard in Puppy, the QT apps are erm..grey, just need a little spice but not too much. This example is not bad looking on Qjackctrl (I don't have VLC or other apps) but it could get a bit Aaaaaaaaaaargh after a few weeks lol.
And you can see the problem with dejavu overlapping in the display.

Yea QT apps sometimes need a bit more effort when trying to get a theme right... but when that's done... they look great. I do have to admit I like some of the new GTK3 styles, but that's incompat with puppy. So if i have to do work to go to a new framework... i'd personally put that effort into QT than GTK.

I know some people just theme all their QT apps with their GTK theme. Doesn't work so well the other way around.

[bark_bark_bark]

I like GTK2, but GTK3 is just plain terrible and a major step backwards.

[mikeb]

do you not use the qt config app...makes it pretty easy to create a nice theme? Should be no need to hand code the config, it does it for you in a visual way.

If a 'standard' approach is used to configure fonts in general they look pretty smooth and clear on any puppy...you know like other distros do (I got the happy arrangement from slax).... and fonts like dejavu are more than up to the job when done properly.

Only thing with qt is they seem to move the goalposts just like gtk...up to 5 now and a lack of backwards/forwards compatibility. In the case of puppy I guess its the devil you know...or is it gtk2 apps are the smaller ones? qt vlc is magnitudes larger than when it was a wxwidgets build.... had people manically trying alternative guis for it. Also broke many skins which was a bummer but that was not actually a qt issue.
gtk1 is fast and stable and can be made to look nice
fltk...sweet but too basic for much.
X....well enough said.
wxwidgets...seems a little out on its own in spite of its gtk connection.

Not sure if webkit is a blessing or a curse.... many apps only need the 2 core libraries.

If there is a benefit of 'standard' methods its not having to rebuild/resource packages every time a new puppy is released....means more time for developing neat ideas and less fighting with integrating with the system and build environment. Its not fun from a programmers point of view.....
Even with our beloved scripts, see the peeing around shinobar had to do to make scripts portable as files and configs jump from one place to the next with each version. Also means much more chance of bugs creeping in with such complex code and s-l-o-w.

mike

[Smithy]

Hi Mike, well I have a "bastardised" QT that just has enough to run Qtractor and Jack, (probably VLC and a lot more, put it in manually sort of thing, a bit daft, but at the time I was looking to keep ram up for lots of linear audio tracks and also a snappy boot up time. Sort of like the partial Qt idea used by the guyz.
Actually snappy boot up time is a major requisite, like you I don't want an 800mb Puppy, a 200 300mb odd is absolutely fine. And the people I've done a Custom Puppy for, love it and comment how fast it is compared to windows.

But if they looked about inside and tried to do anything other than facebook, email, printing, bit of graphics and listening to music/ videos, they would soon wither, slither and wilt like an ice cream on a hot summer's day
The innards are not for the faint hearted. And it's nort like windows. They did quite like typing code into the "television set" (roxterm lol) when I was helping them with a remote assistance to sort a coupla things.

I'd rather some people just do some trolltech confs that look fab and incorporate one, because the attempts I did make with the graphic interface on my big puppy were rubbish. It's not the sort of app that I want to have hanging around, because once a trolltech is done, that's it lol.

You're right about the fonts, it was the setup in Qjackctrl that was causing the overlapping, the fonts were set big by default, but there seems to be a bug where they don't "stick" in qjackctrl.conf, they go back to bold, where size 9 dejavu book gives a lot nicer look, with cleanlooks over gtk+.

It would be good if all the puppy bits stayed in the same place, so then a new kernel for new hardware and modules could be slipped in easily, judging from what you say about shinobar's experience.
Guess that would be a very good standard to push for.

Don't know about gtk1, whatever's been in the Puppy 5 series (gtk2?) is cracking, Ziggy's Stardust and Aurora are glossy and good!

[mikeb]

qtconfig-qt4 240K on here...like you I used it to create a trolltech file and then put it away again.

Yes easier life... at least now a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications does something if somewhat slowly.

Also for support...info from one puppy can be meaningless to the user of the next.... eg ..look in so and so to change file doo dah...oh its not there.

Then its cruelly suggested to use pfind to find the moved item...

mike

[mikeb]

Actually must say there is a general trend to a better use of standards in puppy....others see the value too.

The only forced window manager/software I see happening is JWM/ROX...ie 'its not a puppy without it'.... that to me is unacceptable and takes away choice and their non standard behaviour which has to be pampered to makes development clumsy.

mike

[Smithy]

eg ..look in so and so to change file doo dah...oh its not there.

Then its cruelly suggested to use pfind to find the moved item...

mike

Maybe I will start a thread, Show us yer Trolltechs, that name will get a few tinfoil hats twitching..

[mikeb]

Oohh look a virus...we are all infected....the TV said so.... ahhhh

Actually seems to have application specific stuff in there...not sure if the config or the apps themselves do that. Guess it could just be deleted.

mike

[Smithy]

Actually must say there is a general trend to a better use of standards in puppy....others see the value too.

The only forced window manager/software I see happening is JWM/ROX...ie 'its not a puppy without it'.... that to me is unacceptable and takes away choice and their non standard behaviour which has to be pampered to makes development clumsy.

mike

Yep that's true, there needs to be a foolproof way of switching, because we should respect the fact that different people like their different combos, personally mine is rox and openbox tint2, but I only need to go forward, backward, cut copy paste and drag.

It will go back to JWM/ROX now with WM Switcher thanks to the Puppy Guys, but it was a lot of xdg or whater futzing.

Some people might want other things that maybe other combos do much better. Yikes, over and out from me for now

[mikeb]

duck and cover eh

[Smithy]

Thanks for posting a Trolltech, the fonts were neater, and a touch of lavender on the panels, didn't notice you posted that.

No I was making room for others to post on the subject of Standardisation of Puppy Linux Desktop and App Platform and was late.

Seems like the thread stalled though.
Which could be a subtle way of saying, maybe stop updating the kernel and everything else, then it will be standard 'cos it will always be the same...and the tumbleweed flows across the dusty puppy plain.

[mikeb]

dont see what kernel changing has to do with standards... more about core functions like memory handling and perhaps some newer drivers.

This thread comes and goes.

Talking of updates....not seen many in terms of operating systems in the past 15 years that actually does anything better....they stilll run programs on the hardware...thats it really...just cos the hardware is changed to justify selling a new item does not really change whether a program does something useful.

mike

[nic007]

The massive size of internet browsers is really becoming a problem now for people with old systems.

[darry1966]

The massive size of internet browsers is really becoming a problem now for people with old systems.

Yep and the ram used is ridiculous.

[Smithy]

Well, loitering around the Trolltech file, I noticed this in root/config/autostart.

" This is a new directory for starting applications when X starts
It is to be populated by .desktop files only, anything else is to be
ignored.
This is part of the deprecation of /root/Startup
For guidelines on autostart and creating .desktop files see :
http://standards.freedesktop.org/autost ... atest.html"

So where would one put a fixmenus file (I created a little.sh file) to deal with those stubborn desktop files that won't appear sometimes.

[LazY Puppy]

So where would one put a fixmenus file (I created a little.sh file) to deal with those stubborn desktop files that won't appear sometimes.

I'm using /usr/local/autostart for such scripts.

[Smithy]

Did you make that directory RSH, or is it a standard directory in Puppy Linux?
I 'aint got it in Debian Puppy 3.5.2.11. Sounds like a logical directory though.

[mikeb]

root/config/autostart.

well new to puppy ...been around since I started using linux...but in answer the method would be to have yer script in say /usr/bin and make a desktop file to call it... I modified the country wizard to do exactly that for the numlockx.... its actually less messy than all that symlink messing about in the end.

Otherwise you could go for .xintrc or delayedrun and add a line traditional puppy way since your script is being part of the 'system'

mike

[Smithy]

Yes but then you would have to call the desktop file manually?
When it is in the autostart it fixes menus on a bootup or x restart.

But it is (was) a fudge to get round either my incompetence or something wrong with the menu.
It might actually be fixed now, I can't seem to remember having a problem with loading pets and they don't appear on the menu for quite a while.

But there might come a time when one wants to have an app open on boot and so that directory would be good for simpletons

Symlinks, I've only ever made a couple, think for midi or something that there was no other way.

I usually break things when messing around with init and especially that bloody delayedrun area.

I do like the fact that some other puppy users don't think it's been much of a day when Puppy hasn't come crashing down with fans whining
and the cpu boiling like molten lava.

My favourite hangouts are usr/bin (why an sbin as well I don't know, whatever)
usr/share and usr/local, and a bit of etc. It's alright for you seasoned nix guys lol.

Hey thanks for the ramdisk initrd suggestion in an old thread I was reading, always on the ball as usual. Someone was trying to stream samples and it all started to get very convoluted...Need a cup of tea now.

[mikeb]

well really a desktop file calling fixmenus directly really and being in autostart it erm autostarts when X starts...thats the idea.

/sbin..well pretty meaningless in puppy...its meant for system stuff so would not be accessible to a non privileged user.

bed for me

mike