Windows 8, 8.1 and 10: How to Boot Puppy

Booting, installing, newbie
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mikeslr
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Puppy Linux Window Installer version 5 released

#31 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

This is just to bring to your attention that noryb009 has released verion 5 of his Puppy Linux Windows Installer. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 502#890502

If this is your first attempt to boot Puppy from any computer, including one using UEFI, I would recommend that you try this first for two reasons: (1) it may work out of the box; and (2) if it doesn't, your reporting of the problems you encounter on his thread may help noryb009 to overcome such problems.

mikesLr

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mikeslr
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UEFI Menu Entry & 32-Bit Pups

#32 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

Stumbled upon icake's post while looking for something else. Although icake was concerned with booting Puppies from an iMac --which employs EFI rather than UEFI-- and from a USB-Key rather than a Hard-drive, his procedure may have wider applications,

I thought, in particular, his handling of Grub's boot "menu" was particularly useful in avoiding a lot of guess work. Having unpacked UnicornPup* into a folder he named "live01" he edited grub.cfg to:

"... add these 6 lines (the last line is a blank line) at the bottom of the file:

menuentry "Puppy linux live unicorn 6.0"{
search --set -f /live01/vmlinuz
linux /live01/vmlinuz boot=live
initrd /live01/initrd.gz

"

Do read icake's entire post for context and a complete explanation: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 421#879421

After having developed his booting technique, icake took the time to explore which Pups could be booted using it. He has, further, provided a lists of both 32-bit and 64-bit Pups which could and couldn't be booted successfully. See his post for the list. Thank you, icake.


mikesLr

* Note UnicornPup is (a) 32-bit, and AFAIK 666philb did not employ any technique in order to build it as "UEFI-bootable".

Pelo

computers sold nowadays with windows 10

#33 Post by Pelo »

My computer is 2012 equipped Windows 7, so i would not be concerned by this topic.
but i want to underline that computers sold nowadays with windows 10 can run only Windows 10 , no window 8 or 7 or previous, and nor Linux
Because Microsoft has obliged computer makers to fit the hardware to what they need, if Not, Windows 10 will not be the default OS installed.
These computers will be only Windows 10,
On french forum, some users have abandoned their tries to install Puppy french desesperate puppy lover click the blues
boot is not enough, firmware modules don't exist (yet). :(

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mikeslr
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I'm not sure Pelo's conclusion is entirely correct.

#34 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

In the above post, Pelo suggests "windows 10 can run only Windows 10 , no window 8 or 7 or previous, and nor Linux...boot is not enough, firmware modules don't exist (yet). :cry: "

Firstly, please note that neither Pelo nor I have computers which either require or even enable booting via UEFI. So while we both endeavor to help those who do, neither of us is in a position to report our actual observations. We can only report what others have said.

After reading Pelo's post, I clicked the link he suggested and used slimjet's builtin translation addon which leaves a lot to be desired.. After a couple minutes, I found my head spinning rather than clearly following the discussion. But the sense I got following links from his link was:

a) The initial failures date back to 2014. Linux in general, and Puppy in particular, has come a long way since then.
b) Despite UEFI, at least one person posted that he was able to use Linux Mint. If Linux Mint has required firmware, I doubt Ubuntu lacks it. And if Ubuntu has it, so must, at least, Tahrpup and its variants.

Those of us who try to guide new-comers only have access to a few of the scores of computer models out there. I note that as of this posting over 7500 people have read this thread. It would be nice if any of them having a Windows 10 computer would post back, telling us what worked and what didn't.

Thanks in advance,

mikesLr

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recobayu
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#35 Post by recobayu »

Hi All, just sharing.
I have windows10, ubuntu 16.04, linux mint 17.3, and so many puppy linux installed in my laptop (acer with ram 2gb).

I use YUMI to install puppy linux in my flashdisk.
After that, grub4dos can detect all my OS very well.

Oh ya, I turn off fast boot option in windows so I can save any file in ntfs partition safely.

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mikeslr
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Reporting what works, what doesn't

#36 Post by mikeslr »

Thanks recobayu for the post.

It has occurred to me that it might be best to have a specific thread where users could report their experience of what worked, and what didn't.

So, I've opened one here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 093#896093

Edit May 15: Checked the above thread to see what was being discussed. Several techniques not mentioned on this thread were reported. Especially interesting was a method for setting up a USB-Key so that it could be booted from either a Bios or UEFI computer. :D Suggest it's worth a read.

Edit: the next day. :idea: :roll: It also, finally, occurred to me that a link to Yumi might save newbies some time.
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multi ... b-creator/

mikesLr
Last edited by mikeslr on Thu 19 May 2016, 13:39, edited 3 times in total.

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James C
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#37 Post by James C »

recobayu wrote:Hi All, just sharing.
I have windows10, ubuntu 16.04, linux mint 17.3, and so many puppy linux installed in my laptop (acer with ram 2gb).

I use YUMI to install puppy linux in my flashdisk.
After that, grub4dos can detect all my OS very well.

Oh ya, I turn off fast boot option in windows so I can save any file in ntfs partition safely.
For what it's worth, my friend bought a new Windows 10 laptop a few weeks ago and immediately dual booted with Lubuntu before wiping Windows for only Lubuntu. No problems.

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nic007
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#38 Post by nic007 »

I have never heard of a windows 10 only capable machine. I had windows 10 and frugal installs of puppy on the same machine. Deleted windows 10 and installed windows xp pro. Now have windows xp pro and puppy frugal installs on the same machine. A tip when running multi-systems (windows plus) - Do not install grub4dos to the MBR. I have had numerous occasions where this has messed up my MBR at some time. Rather copy grub and the menu.lst files to the windows partition and add a grub entry to windows boot initiation file (in the case of windows xp it's boot.ini). This is a very safe method.

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Mike Walsh
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#39 Post by Mike Walsh »

Before I totally ejected Windows from my life (around 5 weeks ago, when I finally got Skype workoing in Tahrpup, thanks to watchdog,) I always had XP Pro on sda1, and simply installed the Grub4DOS files to that partition. As Nic suggests, it's pretty foolproof.


Mike. :wink:

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nic007
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#40 Post by nic007 »

Mike Walsh wrote:Before I totally ejected Windows from my life (around 5 weeks ago, when I finally got Skype workoing in Tahrpup, thanks to watchdog,) I always had XP Pro on sda1, and simply installed the Grub4DOS files to that partition. As Nic suggests, it's pretty foolproof.


Mike. :wink:
Copy to the windows drive is a better description. Installing it via the grub4dos utility in the menu is what we want to avoid as this inevitably affects the MBR which I want to avoid with my approach. So, what basically happens is that the MBR with its bootrecord for windows stays untouched and I only add an entry for grub in the boot.ini. The bootup screen for windows then shows two entries, one for windows and one for grub (which you can name as something like puppy linux). You then choose which operating system to boot. I thought I wanted to make this clear.

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Argolance
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#41 Post by Argolance »

Bonjour,
I only add an entry for grub in the boot.ini.
Well, well! But could you please give us an example of the way you modified this boot.in file?
Please, the best would be a very short explanation/history of what you did exactly to make things work...
Thank you a lot!

Cordialement.

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nic007
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#42 Post by nic007 »

Argolance wrote:Bonjour,
I only add an entry for grub in the boot.ini.
Well, well! But could you please give us an example of the way you modified this boot.in file?
Please, the best would be a very short explanation/history of what you did exactly to make things work...
Thank you a lot!

Cordialement.
Let's assume windows xp is installed to the first partition of the drive. So you will add the following line after the last line in boot.ini: c:\grldr="Puppy Linux" Then manually copy grldr and your menu.lst to c:\

Sailor Enceladus
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#43 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

I like this solution by scientist best:
scientist wrote:Once Win 10 was removed, installation went fine.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=910190#910190

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nic007
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#44 Post by nic007 »

Sailor Enceladus wrote:I like this solution by scientist best:
scientist wrote:Once Win 10 was removed, installation went fine.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=910190#910190
Some of us need Windows.

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nic007
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#45 Post by nic007 »

nic007 wrote:
Argolance wrote:Bonjour,
I only add an entry for grub in the boot.ini.
Well, well! But could you please give us an example of the way you modified this boot.in file?
Please, the best would be a very short explanation/history of what you did exactly to make things work...
Thank you a lot!

Cordialement.
Let's assume windows xp is installed to the first partition of the drive. So you will add the following line after the last line in boot.ini: c:\grldr="Puppy Linux" Then manually copy grldr and your menu.lst to c:\
There is of course another way where you don't even have to edit boot.ini. Copy grldr and menu.lst to the drive where windows is installed > rename ntldr to ntldr1 > rename grldr to ntldr > in the windows section of menu.lst change all instances of ntldr to ntldr1. This is the most secure method as the original MBR and the boot.ini files are kept untouched. The added bonus is that you will only have to choose from the grub menu which OS to boot.

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mikeslr
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Booting Puppy from a CD/DVD?

#46 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

If I understand his post correctly, mistfire has packaged an efi boot image you can use in constructing a CD/DVD of your remastered Puppy so that it will boot from that media. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 720#938720.

It is based on the work of Fatdog (kirk and jamesbond).

mikesLr

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Recommendation as of February 16, 2016

#47 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

If you've skipped to here from the first post, this link will take you back after you've read this: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 159#858159

Having skipped here, you've missed the instructions that you have to turn off Fast Boot, AKA Fast Startup which is Windows misleading term for what, Linux refers to "hibernate". Using either hibernate under Linux or Fast Boot under Windows, you really haven't turned off your computer. Consequently, when you Start it again, you're really not booting it and there's no way to boot into any other system. In Linux, hibernate is something the user must consciously choose. In Windows, it's automatic, part of the boot instructions.

You may also have to turn off Intel Smart Response Technology (ISRT).

Links to instructions are on the first post.

You also may not be aware that I do not have an UEFI computer; so this thread primarily serves to provide links to the efforts and discoveries of those who do. However, since my first post I have acquired a Windows 7 computer which --AFAIK-- is structurally the same as a Windows 8/8.5/10 computer. That is, the factory installation of Windows created 3 partitions of the Hard-drive. Each is formatted NTFS. The First, and smallest, is labeled "System". The Third is labeled "Recovery". You don't want to mess with either of those.. The Second and largest is labeled "Windows". Assuming you haven't filled it up with Windows junk, you can safely resize it with gparted to create a FOURTH partition, formatted as Linux to house any Linux Distro. And, as a Frugal install of Puppy does not require an entire partition --it can be located in a folder-- you can place one "Big Linux Distro" and as may Puppy Linux variants there as you like.

Doing a Wellminded Search, http://wellminded.net63.net/ on the term "gparted" will turn up instructions on how to use it safely. But, remember what I said about the 3 partitions already on your computer.

Limbomusic has recently posted regarding an easy way to setup ANY puppy linux to run from a USB-Key, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 608#943608, primarily by following Jamesb’s instructions found here: http://blog.puppylinux.com/?viewDetailed=00009.

There's nothing wrong with running Puppies from a USB-Key, It's the preferred method used by many experienced Puppy fans, I frequently explore a Puppy using that method if I'm not familiar with it, or --being familiar with it-- want to try something without jeopardizing a well-functioning system. But running any Puppy from a USB-Key will always be slower, at least to bootup, than running the same Puppy from a hard-drive. And a Terabyte hard-drive affords more possibilities than even a 64 Gb USB-Key.

The one unmentioned first step in both Limbomusic's and Jamesb’s posts is that either (a) each and every time to you want to boot the computer from the USB-Key you have to hold down some key to get a "Boot Menu" so that it doesn't automatically boot from your hard-drive; or (b) change your computer's settings so that it will give boot-priority to your USB-Key over your Hard-drive. I chose (b) for my new-to-me Windows 7 computer; setting it up to (1) boot from a bootable CD/DVD if one was in the optical drive, if not (2) boot from a bootable USB-Key if one was plugged in, and (3) only if both a bootable CD/DVD AND a bootable USB-Key are absent, boot from the Hard-Drive.

I haven't had, and rarely expect to have, a bootable CD/DVD in the optical drive. It takes my computer about 1 second to check. So under normal circumstances if I've plugged in a bootable USB-Key, my computer will follow its instructions; and if I haven't, my computer will boot Windows 7. And I haven't had to mess with the boot-system Windows wrote.

With your USB-Key’s grub.cfg providing your computer with instruction as to which operating system to boot, you are not limited to only booting those systems on your USB-Key. Grub.cfg can also be written to boot any (or many) Puppies you’ve frugally installed to folders on your computer’s hard-drive.

Jamesb provided this example of a grub.cfg:

menuentry "Start Slacko" {
linux /vmlinuz
initrd /initrd.gz
}

Supposed you resized your second partition and from the now available space created a fourth partition. Puppy would recognize it as sda4 –drive a, partition 4. But grub2 begins numbering with “0
Last edited by mikeslr on Sat 27 May 2017, 12:48, edited 2 times in total.

Pelo

the menu is not as pretty as others

#48 Post by Pelo »

mikeslr, i fully agree with you. Why some devs still continue using old boots ? grub4Dos is perfect, excepted that the menu is not as pretty as others.
Nevertheless see Pupjibaro's starting scripts, they ave been colorized nicely
(sorry for my english :wink: )

Wognath
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Success dual-booting HP 14-an013nr laptop

#49 Post by Wognath »

HP 14-an013nr "streambook"
This laptop boots without issue from a Fatdog flash drive, but after installing FD on a SSD I could not get Linux to #1 in the boot order using BIOS settings. I had to esc/F9 and manually choose boot device. After applying jamesbond's method of editing the EFI partition (sda1 on this machine), it now boots to grub menu. :D
--Secure boot on, legacy boot off, hibernate off
--Can start Windows directly from reFind, or add grub entry
menuentry "Windows 10 " {
set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader /EFI-win/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
}

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mikeslr
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BOOT FROM GPT HARD DISK IN LEGACY BIOS MODE

#50 Post by mikeslr »

Information and links provided by d4p . http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 610#964610

mikesLr

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