Windows 8, 8.1 and 10: How to Boot Puppy

Booting, installing, newbie
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mikeslr
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Booting Puppy from a CD/DVD?

#46 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

If I understand his post correctly, mistfire has packaged an efi boot image you can use in constructing a CD/DVD of your remastered Puppy so that it will boot from that media. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 720#938720.

It is based on the work of Fatdog (kirk and jamesbond).

mikesLr

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mikeslr
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Recommendation as of February 16, 2016

#47 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

If you've skipped to here from the first post, this link will take you back after you've read this: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 159#858159

Having skipped here, you've missed the instructions that you have to turn off Fast Boot, AKA Fast Startup which is Windows misleading term for what, Linux refers to "hibernate". Using either hibernate under Linux or Fast Boot under Windows, you really haven't turned off your computer. Consequently, when you Start it again, you're really not booting it and there's no way to boot into any other system. In Linux, hibernate is something the user must consciously choose. In Windows, it's automatic, part of the boot instructions.

You may also have to turn off Intel Smart Response Technology (ISRT).

Links to instructions are on the first post.

You also may not be aware that I do not have an UEFI computer; so this thread primarily serves to provide links to the efforts and discoveries of those who do. However, since my first post I have acquired a Windows 7 computer which --AFAIK-- is structurally the same as a Windows 8/8.5/10 computer. That is, the factory installation of Windows created 3 partitions of the Hard-drive. Each is formatted NTFS. The First, and smallest, is labeled "System". The Third is labeled "Recovery". You don't want to mess with either of those.. The Second and largest is labeled "Windows". Assuming you haven't filled it up with Windows junk, you can safely resize it with gparted to create a FOURTH partition, formatted as Linux to house any Linux Distro. And, as a Frugal install of Puppy does not require an entire partition --it can be located in a folder-- you can place one "Big Linux Distro" and as may Puppy Linux variants there as you like.

Doing a Wellminded Search, http://wellminded.net63.net/ on the term "gparted" will turn up instructions on how to use it safely. But, remember what I said about the 3 partitions already on your computer.

Limbomusic has recently posted regarding an easy way to setup ANY puppy linux to run from a USB-Key, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 608#943608, primarily by following Jamesb’s instructions found here: http://blog.puppylinux.com/?viewDetailed=00009.

There's nothing wrong with running Puppies from a USB-Key, It's the preferred method used by many experienced Puppy fans, I frequently explore a Puppy using that method if I'm not familiar with it, or --being familiar with it-- want to try something without jeopardizing a well-functioning system. But running any Puppy from a USB-Key will always be slower, at least to bootup, than running the same Puppy from a hard-drive. And a Terabyte hard-drive affords more possibilities than even a 64 Gb USB-Key.

The one unmentioned first step in both Limbomusic's and Jamesb’s posts is that either (a) each and every time to you want to boot the computer from the USB-Key you have to hold down some key to get a "Boot Menu" so that it doesn't automatically boot from your hard-drive; or (b) change your computer's settings so that it will give boot-priority to your USB-Key over your Hard-drive. I chose (b) for my new-to-me Windows 7 computer; setting it up to (1) boot from a bootable CD/DVD if one was in the optical drive, if not (2) boot from a bootable USB-Key if one was plugged in, and (3) only if both a bootable CD/DVD AND a bootable USB-Key are absent, boot from the Hard-Drive.

I haven't had, and rarely expect to have, a bootable CD/DVD in the optical drive. It takes my computer about 1 second to check. So under normal circumstances if I've plugged in a bootable USB-Key, my computer will follow its instructions; and if I haven't, my computer will boot Windows 7. And I haven't had to mess with the boot-system Windows wrote.

With your USB-Key’s grub.cfg providing your computer with instruction as to which operating system to boot, you are not limited to only booting those systems on your USB-Key. Grub.cfg can also be written to boot any (or many) Puppies you’ve frugally installed to folders on your computer’s hard-drive.

Jamesb provided this example of a grub.cfg:

menuentry "Start Slacko" {
linux /vmlinuz
initrd /initrd.gz
}

Supposed you resized your second partition and from the now available space created a fourth partition. Puppy would recognize it as sda4 –drive a, partition 4. But grub2 begins numbering with “0
Last edited by mikeslr on Sat 27 May 2017, 12:48, edited 2 times in total.

Pelo

the menu is not as pretty as others

#48 Post by Pelo »

mikeslr, i fully agree with you. Why some devs still continue using old boots ? grub4Dos is perfect, excepted that the menu is not as pretty as others.
Nevertheless see Pupjibaro's starting scripts, they ave been colorized nicely
(sorry for my english :wink: )

Wognath
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Success dual-booting HP 14-an013nr laptop

#49 Post by Wognath »

HP 14-an013nr "streambook"
This laptop boots without issue from a Fatdog flash drive, but after installing FD on a SSD I could not get Linux to #1 in the boot order using BIOS settings. I had to esc/F9 and manually choose boot device. After applying jamesbond's method of editing the EFI partition (sda1 on this machine), it now boots to grub menu. :D
--Secure boot on, legacy boot off, hibernate off
--Can start Windows directly from reFind, or add grub entry
menuentry "Windows 10 " {
set root=(hd0,1)
chainloader /EFI-win/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
}

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mikeslr
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BOOT FROM GPT HARD DISK IN LEGACY BIOS MODE

#50 Post by mikeslr »

Information and links provided by d4p . http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 610#964610

mikesLr

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mikeslr
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Boot from USB-Key, Puppy Files on hard-drive

#51 Post by mikeslr »

See, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 636#964636

Although I don't have a UEFI computer, having Puppy's necessary files on the computer (each in their own folder) setting the computer to give boot priority to the USB-Key and plugging in the USB-Key (well, actually its always plugged in) when I want to boot into a Puppy means I haven't had to make any changes to the default boot-loader my computer came with.

mikesLr

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mikeslr
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Boot from USB-Key on Really Problematic Computer

#52 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

Thanks to the hard work of bigpup and peterw, and especially the perseverance of overkill22, overkill22 was finally able to boot a Puppy from his ASUSTeK model: UX305FA v: 1.0 by:

disabling secure boot,
disabling fast boot,
Enabling LAUNCH CSM,

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 871#973871

For those who, like myself, had never heard of CSM,

"CSM booting[edit]
To ensure backward compatibility, most UEFI firmware implementations on PC-class machines also support booting in legacy BIOS mode from MBR-partitioned disks, through the Compatibility Support Module (CSM) that provides legacy BIOS compatibility. In this scenario, booting is performed in the same way as on legacy BIOS-based systems, by ignoring the partition table and relying on the content of a boot sector.[36]
BIOS-style booting from MBR-partitioned disks is commonly called BIOS-MBR, regardless of it being performed on UEFI or legacy BIOS-based systems. Furthermore, booting legacy BIOS-based systems from GPT disks is also possible, and such a boot scheme is commonly called BIOS-GPT." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_E ... SM_booting

"Once you know that, you should understand that UEFI-CSM means "NON-pure UEFI boot mode" (i.e. BIOS compatility mode), and that UEFI means "pure UEFI" mode, and this is what Rufus tells you.
Therefore, if you see UEFI-CSM, then you should know that the drive will NOT boot in pure UEFI mode, but will need the CSM (a.k.a. BIOS compability) mode activated to be bootable on an UEFI platform.
If on the other hand you see UEFI, then it means your drive is bootable in pure UEFI, i.e. even if CSM is disabled on the target computer." by pbatard, https://github.com/pbatard/rufus/issues/731

mikesLr

Mayou

mikeslr explanations are clear.

#53 Post by Mayou »

mikeslr explanations are clear. what works, what does not. that is perfect.

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mikeslr
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Learning from the "Dogs"

#54 Post by mikeslr »

Hi All,

Although, concerning "DebianDogs" in general, and Debian-Stretch-Live in particular, rcrsn51's instructions for dealing with an UEFI computer --especially with the additional obstacles that have appeared since July 2015-- are clear, sound. His post appears here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 643#997643

Edited: See rcrsn51's post next following explains why it won't work for Puppies. Thanks rcrsn51.

mikesLr
Last edited by mikeslr on Thu 05 Jul 2018, 20:00, edited 1 time in total.

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rcrsn51
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#55 Post by rcrsn51 »

There is an ongoing problem for Windows users who want to install a Puppy for the first time.

If you download, then click-mount a Puppy ISO from Windows, it will show the files using their old DOS 8.3 filenames.

This is NOT the fault of Windows!
Windows is NOT renaming the files!


This is a consequence of the old-fashioned way that Puppy builds its ISOs. Dog ISOs don't have this problem.

So you cannot copy the files out of the mounted ISO into a frugal install. Instead you need a tool like 7-zip that can extract an ISO with the original names.

Now you can build your Puppy flash drive setup as usual, but with UEFI and a GRUB2 menu. Read here. For example:

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy on USB" {
	search --no-floppy --set=root --file /usbmarker 
	linux /puppy/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash psubdir=puppy pfix=fsck
	initrd /puppy/initrd.gz
}
The simplest approach to this situation is to start building Puppy ISOs with Joliet extensions enabled. Then Windows can read them correctly.

Null_ID
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#56 Post by Null_ID »

Yeah, hi. So just to set things straight in short, simple terms, just as long as I disable hibernation/Fast Boot in Windows 10, and launch Puppy fully from USB only (UEFI/Syslinux), I can then safely dual boot Puppy and Win 10 on the same machine WITHOUT hosing the Win 10 partition into unusable state? Please confirm.

It has been my standard practice since time immemorial that I NEVER mess with the Windows partition while dual booting. I always keep Linux on its own physical disk, to avoid all the traps that Microsoft loves to lay to the paths of us Linux users.

I ask, because circumstances have forced my very 1st Win 10 unit into my hands recently, and I need the Win 10 installation to remain functional, because of reasons. But at the same time, I wouldn't want said machine to be exclusively Microsoft's domain. So, just as long as I use Puppy from its own physical device, I should be allright, right?

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Burn_IT
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#57 Post by Burn_IT »

Confirmed in that as long as you always make sure Windows is fully closed down and not expecting ANY fast start up tricks, you will be OK.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

Fanofscifi
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat 19 Apr 2014, 09:15

#58 Post by Fanofscifi »

Hello everyone,

Sorry but I'm still a newbie. So my pc came with Windows 10 preinstalled. It's been totally locked by the manifacturer. i tried everything. I can't boot in dual boot. I can, however, boot on a UEFI usb stick. So I can enjoy Puppy Linux, which is almost the only Linux distro I can use on this pc. So my question is this. If I partition my hard drive and use, let's say, 5 Gb for instance, is it possible to use this partition to install Puppy on my hard drive and use a usb stick as a bootloader that would allow me to boot into the Puppy installed on my hard drive. Am I clear?

If so, how would I have to create my partiton table and install Puppy?

Thanks in advance

cthisbear
Posts: 4422
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2006, 22:07
Location: Sydney Australia

#59 Post by cthisbear »

" is it possible to use this partition to install Puppy on my hard drive and use a usb stick as a bootloader that would allow me to boot into the Puppy installed on my hard drive.

Am I clear? "

:::::::::::::

I always advocate running Puppy from usb.
Cheap..cheerful...quick and absolutely won't stuff up your hard drive.

Never would I Puppy from a hard drive.

Don't delete windows for the one time you want to use it.
Ther are plenty of small programs that can defeat Windows 10 spying on you, and keep it lean and clean

2 quickies for a start.

O&O ShutUp10: Free antispy tool for Windows 10

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Winaero Tweaker
universal tweaker software which supports Windows 7, Windows 8,
Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

https://winaero.com/comment.php?comment.news.1836

It always pays to read up the how to pages.

O& O gets a good rap.

:::::::::

Always...always give the computer specs.
The brand...HP, Acer etc, and the model number.

If it's a generic...built by a computer shop,
supply the motherboard brand and m/b number.

Because I'm sure in another post you failed to do that.

Good answers come from good questions.

:::::::::

Also..

We remind you that this is a modified version of Windows 10.
Install Windows 10 by following our guide on how to perform a clean installation of Windows 10 .



::::

How to install windows 10 lean (CloudE) Download ISO

https://quickfever.com/how-to-install-w ... nload-iso/

Windows 10 lean is the lightweight version of the windows 10, stripped all the way down, and it’s really fascinating.

" Unlike Windows 10 S, which wasn’t really lightweight at all.
You can get an idea a standard windows 10 ISO is about 4gb while the windows 10 lean (64-bit) is just approximately 2Gb, exciting?
Yeah "

::::::::

Chris.

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bigpup
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#60 Post by bigpup »

how would I have to create my partiton table and install Puppy?
DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE PARTITION TABLE!!!!
That will delete everything on the hard drive.
To make a new partition all you do is make a big partition smaller and use the new unallocated space to make the new partition.
You still use the partition table already there.
Windows 10 uses several partitions, so you have to be careful about which one you make smaller.
Should be one very large data partition that you could change the size.

If you do not want to stick with just using Puppy from a USB.
The Lick installer is the easiest thing to use to get Puppy on the hard drive along side Windows.

LICK is a Puppy Linux installer for Windows.
With Lick no changing of partitions required. It will use what is already there.
It configures Windows and Puppy Linux to dual-boot environment in just a few clicks.
This makes it perfect if you want to try out Linux without the hassle of installing.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61404
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

Fanofscifi
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Joined: Sat 19 Apr 2014, 09:15

#61 Post by Fanofscifi »

Thanks to the both of you but I think I'll follow what cthisbear said and boot with my usb stick. After all Puppy copies to ram and it's super fast and it doesn't change anything to the hard drive.

Thanks again great Puppy community

J_D_
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Location: Indiana

#62 Post by J_D_ »

Thanks to Bigpup for telling me about Lick. Sooo easy. I did use Windows storage manager to shrink the Windows 10 partition and create 2 extra 50 gig partitions, Then I downloaded Lick and the puppy ISO and saved as documents. After that I opened Lick and installed the ISO to it. Whole thing took about 1 minute. Done. Later I went back to Lick in Windows and added a different puppy and deleted the first. No drama and all done very fast. Way faster than my old stand by LILI witch works very well.

Aparich
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Location: New Zealand

Right!

#63 Post by Aparich »

Fanofscifi wrote:Thanks to the both of you but I think I'll follow what cthisbear said and boot with my usb stick. After all Puppy copies to ram and it's super fast and it doesn't change anything to the hard drive.

Thanks again great Puppy community
Yes, as cthisbear said booting with usb stick did the it for me. And I guess I should work for you too.

tino06
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 11 Apr 2020, 11:56

Do you still need to deactivate secure boot on new puppylinu

#64 Post by tino06 »

Hi all,

Do you still need to deactivate secure boot on new puppylinux versions?

Thanks in advance
Best regards(sorry for my bad english i am french)

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mikeslr
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#65 Post by mikeslr »

Hello tino06,

First, Welcome to the kennels. :D
Second, NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR NOT BEING A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER. :x It makes those of us who can only speak English feel that much more incompetent. :lol:

It is always best to try out any version of Puppy by first doing a frugal install to a USB-Key. There are several good programs you install into Windows that will deploy the version of Puppy you choose to a USB-Key. Among them are our home-grown Lick, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 720#462720, rufus, https://rufus.ie/ and --if I'm not mistaken-- the latest version of Linux Live USB-Creator, https://www.linuxliveusb.com/. If your choice of Puppy can not run on your computer from a USB-Stick, you may want to reconsider installing it to your hard-drive. :roll:

Once it is running from a USB-Stick, I suggest that you start reading toward the end of the "FrugalPup 20 - Puppy frugal installer" thread, currently here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 66#1052566. Gyro, with the help of bigpup and other Puppy fans, have been working for more than a year on creating an installer which would not require secure boot to be deactivated. But, whether --as of now-- it enables that condition on your computer probably will remain a question until you try it. Please share your findings.

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