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Moat
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#16 Post by Moat »

saintless wrote: This could be the reason for some of the messages from your screenshot.

Information what is changed in case someone likes to restore the high Mint packages priority.
Thanks for the info, Toni - I will try this again, as soon as I get a chance.

I'm a real "fan" of Mint's Mate/Marco desktop environment (along with the excellent MintMenu) - it's very highly functional with plenty of useful features, can be made quite beautiful aesthetically, and is still more than reasonably light on resources - works wonderfully on my old dual-core machines. A great "middle ground" in the world of DE's, IMHO. But, of course, installing as I did above adds almost a full 1 Gb to the installed OS size. All a trade-off! :shock:

Thanks again,

Bob

wanderer
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#17 Post by wanderer »

just a report

works on
acer laptop
gateway laptop
dell desktop

both from cd-rw and live usb

apt works
wired internet works
wireless works
firefox works

great job

thanks

wanderer

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rcrsn51
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#18 Post by rcrsn51 »

Very nice. MintPup boots easily from ISObooter.

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fredx181
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#19 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni and everyone,

*** Openbox-MintPup for testing ***

Here's a setup I made for a light openbox session.
Edit: Re-uploaded, added Wallpaper chooser (it's in the openbox-menu, "Set Wallpaper")
Dependency 'hsetroot' replaced by 'nitrogen'
Download:
https://googledrive.com/host/0ByBgCDlZZ ... tup.tar.gz

Extract the archive, it contains 2 .deb files and README-Setup file.

From README-Setup:
----------------------------------
After apt-get update :

FIRST: Install tint2_0.11+svn20121014-3_i386.deb:
This tint2 version is from Debian Jessie, the Ubuntu Trusty tint2 version is to old.

From terminal in this directory:
dpkg -i tint2_0.11+svn20121014-3_i386.deb
And:
apt-get -f install

THEN:
Install openbox-mintpup_0.0.1_i386.deb:

From terminal in this directory:
dpkg -i openbox-mintpup_0.0.1_i386.deb
And:
apt-get -f install

Total install size: around 9.5 MB

To start: Jwm menu > System > Start Openbox
To get back to Jwm from Openbox: Menu > Applications > Preferences > Start Jwm
-----------------------------------------

To add or remove icons from the left launcher panel on the desktop:
Just Add/Remove .desktop files in ~/tint2launchers and restart tint2.
(Menu > Openbox > Tint2 panel > Restart tint2)

Any suggestions to improve are very welcome!

Edit: Re-uploaded, added Wallpaper chooser (in the openbox-menu, "Set Wallpaper")
Dependency 'hsetroot' replaced by 'nitrogen'
Download:
https://googledrive.com/host/0ByBgCDlZZ ... tup.tar.gz

Fred
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saintless
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#20 Post by saintless »

Thanks Fred.
Added link in the first post above the iso download link.
I confirm it works for user and root from quick testing, but unfortunately I don't have time to test again all after installing OpenBox and changing all WM from user and root account. When you think it is ready for official upload in mintpup repository I will do it.

Toni

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#21 Post by mcewanw »

Thanks from me too, Fred,

Since this builds on the existing jwm_icewm version of MintPup I imagine xdm works with it for login display manager? If so, that's great, and nice way to build the openbox system to keep consistent functionality with jwm_icewm version I feel.

William
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#22 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni, William,
Added link in the first post above the iso download link.
Thanks Toni, I tested with regular user switching WM's many times, so it should be OK.
But let's wait a little while before making official, I might change/fix some more later.
Just one thing, when switching to puppy or any new created user the 'Start Openbox' menu entry didn't appear until I refreshed e.g. menu-puppy.
I think it has to do with the Jwm setup as any other fresh installed program won't appear either.
Somehow a 'update menus' would be needed before login maybe?

See my Edit in previous post for new openbox-mintpup upload, with added wallpaper chooser.

William, thanks, yes, I couldn't resist making some sort of openbox version.
I'm starting to like openbox more and more, inspired a little by the minimalistic way e.g. Crunchbang is setup, very much configurable.
(although my version turned out very different)
Since this builds on the existing jwm_icewm version of MintPup I imagine xdm works with it for login display manager?
Yes, in theory it should, it's the same setup as Jwm and Icewm, but I couldn't get it to work.
Is xdm not supported yet on mintpup maybe?
Running 'xdm-start' gave me message that systemd is not installed.
Sorry if I possibly missed something that has been discussed before.

Fred
Last edited by fredx181 on Sat 01 Aug 2015, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.

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#23 Post by saintless »

Hi Fred.
fredx181 wrote:Just one thing, when switching to puppy or any new created user the 'Start Openbox' menu entry didn't appear until I refreshed e.g. menu-puppy.
I think it has to do with the Jwm setup as any other fresh installed program won't appear either.
Somehow a 'update menus' would be needed before login maybe?
The menu system generates $HOME/.jwmrc file. If the programm is installed from user puppy and has postinst script with update-menus and included .desktop file - then it will auto-appear in the menu.
If you use root for installing a program and then login as user the menu entry is not visible till you use Menu-Puppy or till next ptogram is installed with apt-get or Synaptic.
But I don't know how in OpenBox the menu is generated and if it needs starting Menu-Debian first (which will restore /opt/bin/update-menus link to /usr/bin/update-menus instead to the special mkjwm-menu).
Yes, in theory it should, it's the same setup as Jwm and Icewm, but I couldn't get it to work.
Is xdm not supported yet on mintpup maybe?
You need to reboot after xdm-start or exit X and /etc/init.d/xdm restart
Testing earlier today I didn't have problem to boot in OpenBox with activated xdm.
Running 'xdm-start' gave me message that systemd is not installed.
It is preparation for later if systemd package appears in Ubuntu Trusty repository (or in case you like to install it from Utopic). If systemd is installed the script will copy the files for systemd auto-login instead "Systemd is not installed" message.

Toni

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#24 Post by fredx181 »

Toni wrote:If you use root for installing a program and then login as user the menu entry is not visible till you use Menu-Puppy or till next ptogram is installed with apt-get or Synaptic.
Yes, that's exactly what I noticed, I guess that's not an easy thing to fix.
But I don't know how in OpenBox the menu is generated and if it needs starting Menu-Debian first (which will restore /opt/bin/update-menus link to /usr/bin/update-menus instead to the special mkjwm-menu).
From what I understand, the Openbox menu > Applications doesn't rely on update-menus, it's directly updated from the contents of .desktop files in /usr/share/applications (or, with higher priority, in ~/.local/share/applications).

Btw, I forgot to mention earlier:
Some .desktop files have no line "Type=Application"
I used a workaround in 'start-openbox' script by searching and copying these to ~/.local/share/applications and modify by adding this line.
The openbox-menu is generated from /etc/xdg/menus/lxde-applications.menu and .desktop files without the "Type=Application" line won't show in menu so I think in the future it's a good thing we add it to any custom made .desktop file.
You need to reboot after xdm-start or exit X and /etc/init.d/xdm restart
Testing earlier today I didn't have problem to boot in OpenBox with activated xdm.
OK, didn't know that, thanks.

Fred

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#25 Post by mcewanw »

Hi Fred,

Just trying openbox alternative. Looks nice. One possible issue is with the menu - on first booting and selecting menu item 'Applications' I seem to need to click (rather than just hover) to open it. Also one I have a menu, moving cursor to desktop (i.e. not focussing on the menu or submenu) doesn't close the menu unless I actually click somewhere (but perhaps that is intended?).

I also couldn't see how to move items from Xfe or Rox filemanager to desktop with this openbox version. Works from Xfe or Rox filemanager to Rox pinboard when using jwm version as far as I recall. Is Thunar needed to do that with openbox?

Note that I also couldn't see Rox filemanager in the openbox menu (but maybe I just missed it).

Also, I wonder about Applications -> Other

Why do these apps appear in the non-descriptive submenu 'Other'? Is it a desktop file issue?

Nice alternative to jwm though, and conky needed should someone want dogradio anyway.

William
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#26 Post by saintless »

Hi Fred.
fredx181 wrote:
Toni wrote:If you use root for installing a program and then login as user the menu entry is not visible till you use Menu-Puppy or till next ptogram is installed with apt-get or Synaptic.
Yes, that's exactly what I noticed, I guess that's not an easy thing to fix.
It is the same in all DD-Jwm iso versions and I don't see anything to fix here.
The user menu is generated from $HOME/ files running "jwm -reload" after that and the change can't be made in all /home/user-names directories installing a program from one account.
Anyway it could be changed if the menu is generated from /etc/jwm files instaed from $HOME/ but I don't recommend this for multiuser system.
If one time updating the menus after login in different account is a problem the user can change the WM to OpenBox or different one and remove Jwm setup.

Toni

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#27 Post by mcewanw »

By the way, Fred,

I was looking through porteus boot initrd and noted that the 64bit version had quite a number of changes (though a fair amount the same). I presume you modified the original porteus initrd to add all the debian-related stuff. Seemed like quite a big job since you also appear to have needed to comment out quite a bit of the original porteus code. I presume you knew Porteus system quite well such that you were able to do that without too much effort? The same looked like it could be a lot of effort for me (who doesn't know Porteus system at all).

The reason I was looking at it was because I wondered how easy or otherwise it would be to produce a Linux Mint 64 bit MintPup but using Porteus boot since that so conveniently allows saving to a folder in the same partition as booted from. But I suspect it is not easy... so, currently, for a machine I want 64bit OS on, I'm just using xfce Linux mint 64 itself.

William
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#28 Post by fredx181 »

Hi William,
Just trying openbox alternative. Looks nice. One possible issue is with the menu - on first booting and selecting menu item 'Applications' I seem to need to click (rather than just hover) to open it.
It may seem that way but I think when first time run it takes a little time to open the Applications menu.
Also one I have a menu, moving cursor to desktop (i.e. not focussing on the menu or submenu) doesn't close the menu unless I actually click somewhere (but perhaps that is intended?).
That's normal desired behaviour in my opinion (but I may not understand exactly what you mean).
I also couldn't see how to move items from Xfe or Rox filemanager to desktop with this openbox version. Works from Xfe or Rox filemanager to Rox pinboard when using jwm version as far as I recall. Is Thunar needed to do that with openbox?
It's not as advanced as with the DD openbox_xfce version, as that has xfdesktop to draw the desktop.
The icons you see on the left of the desktop is a tint2 panel, add or remove .desktop launchers in ~/tint2launchers to change, from my first post about openbox-mintpup:
fredx181 wrote:To add or remove icons from the left launcher panel on the desktop:
Just Add/Remove .desktop files in ~/tint2launchers and restart tint2.
(Menu > Openbox > Tint2 panel > Restart tint2)
The number of launchers is limited, depending on your resolution, as it's only one vertical row.
Note that I also couldn't see Rox filemanager in the openbox menu (but maybe I just missed it).
Yes, you are right, it's not in the Jwm menu either, btw, and no .desktop file present in /usr/share/applications.
I will fix in next version.
Also, I wonder about Applications -> Other
The menu is generated by openbox pipemenu to lxde-applications.menu, some categories in the .desktop files are not recognized by that, e.g. 'Audio'.

Thanks for testing.
I was looking through porteus boot initrd and noted that the 64bit version had quite a number of changes (though a fair amount the same). I presume you modified the original porteus initrd to add all the debian-related stuff. Seemed like quite a big job since you also appear to have needed to comment out quite a bit of the original porteus code.
.....
.....
It was really a 'experimental trial and error' thing for me, changing it bit by bit, I had just some user experience using Slax and later Porteus, so I was a little familiar with live-system boot using modules and aufs.
So if someone would ask me to write a how-to about porteus-boot, I wouldn't know where to start :shock:
Maybe you could just try to use the linuxrc from mintpup initrd1.xz with a 64bit version?
(probably to easy, but maybe worth a try and see what happens)
I don't have a 64bit machine and no experience with it.

Fred

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#29 Post by mcewanw »

fredx181 wrote: It's not as advanced as with the DD openbox_xfce version, as that has xfdesktop to draw the desktop.
The icons you see on the left of the desktop is a tint2 panel, add or remove .desktop launchers in ~/tint2launchers to change, from my first post about openbox-mintpup:

To add or remove icons from the left launcher panel on the desktop:
Just Add/Remove .desktop files in ~/tint2launchers and restart tint2.
(Menu > Openbox > Tint2 panel > Restart tint2)
Hi Fred,

Sorry, I do remember reading the above about Tint2 panel now - that explains it. I presume xfdesktop addition would be a lot of extra - it certainly works well in DD-openbox version.
fredx181 wrote:
Maybe you could just try to use the linuxrc from mintpup initrd1.xz with a 64bit version?
(probably to easy, but maybe worth a try and see what happens)
I don't have a 64bit machine and no experience with it.
Good idea; worth me giving that a try sometime anyway.

William
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#30 Post by mcewanw »

fredx181 wrote:I don't have a 64bit machine and no experience with it.

Fred
Yeah, I just had a Pentium M (no-pae)/750MB RAM machine prior to picking up a couple of old 64-bit core-2-duo/2GB RAM machines for NZ$50 each (around 30 Euros each). Nice wee machines with webcams but no hard-drives (that's why I worked on booting from SD and continue to just use that instead - works great.

William
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#31 Post by mcewanw »

fredx181 wrote: It's not as advanced as with the DD openbox_xfce version, as that has xfdesktop to draw the desktop.
The icons you see on the left of the desktop is a tint2 panel, add or remove .desktop launchers in ~/tint2launchers to change, from my first post about openbox-mintpup:
Hi again Fred,

Since its available by default, is there any reason why you chose against using Rox pinboard to draw the desktop?

Just as a quick test, I commented out the tint2 leftside panel in /root/config/openbox/autostart.sh

and modified /root/.xsession-openbox as follows:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh

setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp &
sleep 2
/usr/bin/rox -p ${HOME}/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/pinbd &
/opt/bin/start-up &
# export SESSION_MANAGER=/usr/bin/x-session-manager
exec openbox-session
Not as nice as xfdesktop facilities, and maybe needs a few tweaks and changes also for puppy user login, but allows drag and drop from filemanagers. The only thing is, I'm not sure what advantage that would give over jwm MintPup, since xfdesktop, seems to be the key to nice right-click options in DD-openbox version (though I suppose you could still also use a tint2 launcher panel elsewhere on screen if wanted and not a bit overkill - also the tint2 taskbar area stores the program icons very nicely in the desktop tabs).

EDIT: might also need to play around with some sleep values to get background to show up behind conky and desktop icons windows.

EDIT2: Actually, starting Rox pinboard right after nitrogen in autostart.sh seems to also work and slightly better in that the background came through on desktop drive icons, but for me conky is starting up in this case with blank grey background still.

EDIT3: Rox pinboard does seem to itself use about twice as much RAM than the tint2 panel, but that's but a small increase in system RAM usage overall of course, and I imagine xfdesktop would use more RAM than tint2 also in addition to a larger installation size. I hazard a guess that very low RAM machines are few in number nowadays especially since modern browsers are becoming RAM greedy. Yes, I know, Toni still possesses a 128 MB museum piece! :-)

EDIT4: Ah, this openbox MintPup uses Nitrogen for wallpaper it seems, which always seems to apply to conky and desktop drive icons, but Rox pinboard usage seems to use Toni's default wallpaper. Must be a quick way to fix that issue, but I can't work out where Rox pinboard gets its wallpaper on this system - I used to know but forget - nor can I work out/remember where Terry's (BACON program?) /opt/bin/wallpaper-gui gets called. I checked from ~/.xsession but kind find where wallpaper starts.

EDIT5: Okay, for Rox pinboard it is in ~/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/pinbd, so I guess /opt/docs/pictures/01.jpg would need to result in a different background depending on nitrogen's choice:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<pinboard>
  <backdrop style="Stretched">/opt/docs/pictures/01.jpg</backdrop>
...
EDIT6: And in jwm version, Wallpapers is called from pinbd icon on desktop and there is a checkbox to run at Boot. However, Fred's background wouldn't 'Scale' when I tried Terry's 'Wallpapers' program (and in fact I couldn't get the program to work the way I expected - perhaps I still don't understand how to use it - I've had problems with it before).

EDIT7: Okay, need to click 'Start' in Terry's wallpaper program, then move required image to top before selecting Apply... Works fine (have option to start at Boot time). Seems to me, it might be possible to use Rox pinboard with openbox version using Terry's wallpaper changer and no need for 'Nitrogen' - but I haven't tried that as yet. Pity, I feel, Terry didn't leave wallpaper-gui as a shell script since would have been so much easier for most of us to tinker with its GUI. I don't know the relationship between conky and nitrogen and openbox itself - not sure how conky picks up its background (nor how to get that to scale correctly inside the conky window)

EDIT8: At first sight, using rox seems a little bit more resource intensive than using tint2 and xfe as file manager. However, I note that rox only seems to run one process no matter how many times you call it up - so very efficient if used for file management and pinboard. Also, with jwm you are still free to call up conky in these startup scripts (and or tint2 for that matter) but I wonder if rox panels might come in useful as alternative to tint2 launchers in either jwm or openbox version?

EDIT9: On the subject of JWM, I note that you can create additional trays using TRAY tag in .jwmrc and these can use autohide parameter. Such trays could I presume also be used as program launchers (using 'Swallow' application attribute?). Can probably also install something like compton, which is quite low in resource usage and size (121kB compressed download, on my machine uses only 1.7MB resident RAM with VM 7.8MB), for special effects like drop shadows, fades and transparency:

http://duncanlock.net/blog/2013/06/07/h ... g-in-xfce/

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Compton

I also note that you can make the JWM taskbar tasklist tabs just the size of the active program icons by setting TRAY attribute:

Code: Select all

<TaskList maxwidth="32"/>
William
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#32 Post by fredx181 »

Hi William,

Many thanks for the ideas, there's very much to choose, I did look already at the option to use rox for providing the desktop and ran into the same problems as you, such as background, transparency etc.. .
Surely these can be solved, but I'm not sure yet if it's useful to provide an Openbox session that looks almost exactly like Jwm.
Anyway, I'll look into it later, first I am busy with DebianDog iso upgrade.

Fred

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#33 Post by otoshan »

I try to use package Variety from this repo
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:peterlevi/ppa
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install variety
But i have this error (variety-error.txt) when i open this package.
Also i try to install this package in original Mint XFCE 17.1 32-bit. It works without problem. I need help. What i missed?
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#34 Post by saintless »

Seems variety expects to find gsettings-schemas inside its own folder. I don't know how official Mint provides gsettings-schemas to variety but you can make symlink to the glib-2.0 folder and variety starts:

Code: Select all

sudo ln -s /usr/share/glib-2.0 /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/variety/share
Edit: I don't know if the included wallpapers changer and rox-pinboard will conflict in some way with variety. Maybe you will have to stop rox-pinboard removing the line from ~/startup and stop the wallpapers changing (use the wallpapers desktop icon).
And this is from the official site:
Note for users of Openbox, Fluxbox, i3, xmonad and other window managers.

Many of the lighter window managers do not have native desktop-drawing capabilities but rely on feh to draw the desktop. To make Variety run there, install feh, then edit the file ~/.config/variety/scripts/set_wallpaper and uncomment the second of these lines:

# Feh - commented, as it may cause problems with Nautilus, (see bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/variety/+bug/1047083)
# feh --bg-scale "$WP" 2> /dev/null
Toni
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Creating bootable usb flashstick of MintPup from MS Windows

#35 Post by mcewanw »

Not that I've read much interest, on this forum, in this alternative (windows Rufus program) method for creating a bootable MintPup usb with save file, but here is a (simple as it happens) step-by-step HOWTO:

1. In Windows 7, plugged in blank fat32 formatted 4GB usb stick.

2. Downloaded 'Rufus' portable version from its website location and then ran it:

https://rufus.akeo.ie/downloads/rufus-2.2p.exe

3. In Rufus, chose:

Device: My plugged in usb stick
Partition scheme: MBR partition scheme for BIOS or UEFI
File system: FAT32
Cluster size: 4096 bytes (Default)
New volume label: 4GB (or make it what you want...)
Further selected:
1 Pass; Quick format; Create a bootable using ISO image, for which I:
Clicked browse button in Rufus and selected my previously downloaded MintPup-jwm-icewm-hybrid-26.07.2015 iso

4. Pressed Rufus START button, then OK to create bootable usb.

5. Once done, rebooted system to usb stick (still plugged in) choosing default first menu option:
MintPup Porteus Always-Fresh

6. Once in MintPup, set up:
My wireless network connection using JWM -> Network -> Frisbee
My local timezone using JWM -> Settings -> Set TimeZone (which for me is Pacific/Auckland)

7. Now clicked JWM -> Shutdown -> Reboot, choosing option to Create Savefile:
Made my savefile 512 MB in size (but up to you); Pressed OK to continue
In resulting pop-up filemanager window, chose to store the file in / directory of my usb stick, which for me was /mnt/sdb1 and accepted default savefile name 'changes.dat' by pressing OK button in that filemanager window.

8. In resulting pop-up window, pressed OK button to accept the 512MB savefile size.

9. At this stage, in this development version of MintPup, there is a cosmetic usage problem in that the savefile creation program does not yet display a progress bar (note to Toni). I therefore clicked my desktop sdb1 icon, which auto-opened a filemanager, to allow me to monitor savefile creation progress (pressing refresh button to see size increasing steadily). In other words, you have to wait... until, eventually, a pop-up message will appear confirming "File created successfully" to which I then:

10. Pressed OK, whereupon the session was automatically saved and the system automatically rebooted.

11. On that reboot, when boot menu re-appeared I now chose:

MintPup Porteus in RAM (save in changes=/changes.dat file)
----

EDIT: You can now go ahead and install the likes of Firefox and so on per my tips Toni points to in the first post of this thread, directlvy here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 919#857919

----

Note that, as an alternative to using Windows program 'Rufus" to create a bootable usb of MintPup, from Windows you could instead use isoboot-win from Puppy forum member rcrsn51, which also runs from MS Windows and results in a usb flash stick that boots from a copy of the actual MintPup iso file placed on the usb stick:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 664#859664

If you already have MintPup running, you could instead, of Rufus or isoboot-win, use MintPup's own utility, MintPup-Frugal-Install for making frugal installs to other partitions or devices: MintPup JWM menu -> System -> MintPup-Frugal-Install can create standard frugal installs to, for example, usb flash sticks or SD cards using a choice of grub4dos, syslinux, or extlinux for the bootloader to install and use (only modifying the MBR of the flash device selected, not the harddrive, which is left untouched for these cases).

MintPup-Frugal-Install (and the similar DebianDog-installer) is my personal favourite method (but it has the disadvantage that it does not run from Windows and relies more on the user's understanding of what they are doing). I prefer using it because the resulting installation is the more typical Puppy-like frugal install using the standard grub4dos menu.lst type of contents I am used to (or syslinux.cfg or ext2linux).

MintPup-Frugal-Install can also create frugal installs onto harddrive partitions (but for that case, the user has to be careful if they don't want to overwrite existing harddrive MBR/bootloader).

William
Last edited by mcewanw on Fri 07 Aug 2015, 04:21, edited 10 times in total.
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