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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
YaPI (yet another Puppy Installer) install any Puppy iso
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 14:15    Post subject:  

B.K. Johnson.

Just to see what happens.
Could you put some iso's in a folder just on the partition Windows is on.

Do a Yapi search and see what it finds.

Also, the partition has had a Windows defrag and chkdsk run on it recently?

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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 18:59    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Just to see what happens.
Could you put some iso's in a folder just on the partition Windows is on.

That is where all my ISOs are. The drive is a single partition with Windows as drive C:.
This is the path to tahr-6.0.6-uefi on the partition:
Code:
/mnt/sda1/Documents and Settings/user/My Documents/Downloads/PUPPIES/tahr-6.0.6/tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso

I do not have a directory of iso's. Each ISO is in a direcyory along with associated files.
Quote:
Do a Yapi search and see what it finds.

I would set up a temporary directory with a couple iso's but I don't know how to do a yapi search. When I first saw your message, I was in tahr-6.0.2~6.0.5. I typed yapi -h in the console but one of the installation dialogboxes opens up and went through the entire sequence of dialogboxes.
I rebooted into tahr-6.0.6-uefi and got the same result. Send the command string

Quote:
Also, the partition has had a Windows defrag and chkdsk run on it recently?

Not recently. I haven't logged into Windows to do anything in over a year, I only end up in Windows if my flash drive does not boot for some reason. However, almost everything I save goes on that drive and it is nearly full. In line with your thinking, I need to transfer some of the files from the drive to free up some space. I'll then defrag the drive,

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Aug 2017, 00:56    Post subject:  

What I am saying is to put a iso in a directory(folder) just on the partition.
Run Yapi normally.
No special commands.
When you get to the window to choose what to install.
Select "any other Puppy.iso from all storage locations".
See if it finds any iso's.

Example:
The partition is sda1.
Make a directory named "puppy" on partition sda1.
Put an iso in directory puppy.
the search would only have to look in
Code:
/mnt/sda1/puppy


Quote:
I need to transfer some of the files from the drive to free up some space. I'll then defrag the drive,

Depending on how fragmented the drive is, you could have problems getting a good file transfer.
I would defrag first and then transfer files.
Again, it depends on how bad drive is fragmented.

Your placement of Puppy installs and iso's is not really the best.
Think about it.
Code:
/mnt/sda1/Documents and Settings/user/My Documents/Downloads/PUPPIES/tahr-6.0.6/

That is a lot of directories(folders), to drill down through(my term), just to get to Puppy files and programs.
Any time Puppy needs to go back to the drive to get something. It has to take time to drill down again through all that.

All my Puppy installs are just on a partition.
Example:
/mnt/sda1/xenialpup647085uefi
(Xenialpup64 7.0.8.5 uefi in directory xenialpup647085uefi).

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Sat 26 Aug 2017, 21:04    Post subject:  

@bigpup
I moved files to an external drive until the Windows drive was 19% free.
booted to Windows and defragged the drive. The largest defragmented file that remained was System Volume Information.

Booted into tahr-6.0.6 with the cobbled installation.
Created a ISOs directory to /root and copied 2 puppy iso's to it.
There wasn't a Yapi desktop entry in the Menu>Setup (or any sub category) when I looked. 'which yapi' at the console showed yapi installed to /usr/sbin/ and a /usr/share/applications/yapi.desktop existed with good data.
Menu>Setup>Menu Manager had yapi listed, so I closed the dialogbox. Yapi now appeared in the menu.

I launched yapi. The welcome screen, then the screen describing the options (frugal etc), then advice that the search began.

That lingered for quite a while, eventually making way for the Usage of Xdialog script.

On closing the screen, a small dialogbox appeared momentarily ... disappeared too fast for me to read.
Then the box informing that the chosen iso was not found appeared.
I clicked OK to end the FAILED session.

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Sat 26 Aug 2017, 21:13    Post subject:  

@bigpup
[episode after defrag-chapter 2]

cd to /root/ISOs
at console yapi
Got the screens I have come to expect, but i got a new one after closing the Usage for Xdialog (screenie).
The strangest thing is that although I had selected the 2nd item on the menu, the message
"No isos for this tahr 6.0.6 ..."
It seems that somehow yapi is selecting "this", the first option. Secondly, tahr 6.0.6 may be the name within the running puppy, but the on disk puppy is tahr-6.0.6-uefi.
[UPDATE]
I just saw that the screen output when I launched yapi from the console shows errors - screenie = error_@console.
This suggests that I may have a defective version of yapi. So I am retrieving a new copy of the pet. I'll install after comparing.
error_@console.png
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error_@console.png


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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 26 Aug 2017, 21:17    Post subject:  

Let's hope that is it.
A bad install of Yapi!

Thanks for the test!!!


I am not sure why yapi is doing this for you.

Make sure you are getting the yapi pet marked final release from the link in the first post.

Quote:
Booted into tahr-6.0.6 with the cobbled installation.

Sure this is good and got all the normal support files/programs of a normal Puppy?

This is yapi running in Tahrpup64 6.0.6 with 32bit compatibility sfs loaded.
The search had to search 4drives with Windows 10 on two of them.
My results:
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Mon 28 Aug 2017, 14:02    Post subject:  

Strange!!!
In an earlier post, I noted that YaPI in the cobbled 6.0.6 did not appear in Menu>Setup, but OK in other places.
Now I find that it isn't listed in the Uninstalled in PPM, so I am going to install over what exists. I did and it still is not listed among "Uninstall"

Running the new YaPI has essentially the same results. But launching from console selecting "any" gave the error shown in screenie=error_with_new_yapi. YaPI can't even find an ISO "under its nose".



Now, from the console, I'll cd to /root/ISOs then launch yapi like this:
Code:
yapi tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso
. This was successful before.
...
It did not produce a populated drive despite what seemed to be all the correct dialogs. Scapping that proc.

I am back to using the tahr-6.0.2~6.0.5
No suprise that YaPI launched from Menu failed as before.
YaPI does not appear in PPM/Uninstalled. I seem to recall that it should. How else does one uninstall it? This looks like a badly created pet.

cd to /mnt/sda1/ISOs/
launched YaPI tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso
all the correct dialogs seemed to appear including screenie=where2install-2

And results in a properly operating tahr-6.0.6 on flash drive.


Here is the console page of my successful install using tahr-6.02~6.0.5 and yapi command with iso parm
Code:
root# yapi tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso
ISO to be installed is: tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso. SIZE is 243.

 Select WHERE to install to.
Mount is denied because the NTFS volume is already exclusively opened.
The volume may be already mounted, or another software may use it which
could be identified for example by the help of the 'fuser' command.
/usr/sbin/yapi: line 472: [: /tmp/PUI/ISOBOOTER_sda: binary operator expected
chosenPARTITION=sdc1
cp: omitting directory ‘/tmp/PUI/ISO/help’
BINSTALLER=bootlace.com
80.0GB
8006MB
16.0GB
sdc|16GB_General_UDisk_
sda|80GB_ATA_SAMSUNG_HD082GJ_
sdb|7.8GB_KingstonDT_101_G2_
sdc|16GB_General_UDisk_
/usr/sbin/grub4dosconfig: line 739: 10505 Terminated              $GTKDIALOG -p DIALOG -c &> /dev/null
PCPARTS:
/dev/sdc1|vfat|15667200

LPART:/dev/sdc1|vfat|15667200
MYPUPPY=sdb1/tahr602/puppy_tahr_6.0.2.sfs
sdc1/tahr606uefi/puppy_tahr_6.0.6.sfs,initrd.gz|puppy_tahr_6.0.6



sdc1/tahr606uefi/puppy_tahr_6.0.6.sfs|puppy_tahr_6.0.6

1:0:3
/usr/sbin/grub4dosconfig: line 1353: 11547 Terminated              $GTKDIALOG -p DIALOG -c &> /dev/null
sdc1/tahr606uefi/puppy_tahr_6.0.6.sfs,initrd.gz|puppy_tahr_6.0.6
:Windows:
/dev/sdc Bootalbe: yes, yes
/usr/sbin/grub4dosconfig: line 2079: 13164 Terminated              $GTKDIALOG -p DIALOG -c &> /dev/null
head: cannot open ‘/tmp/PUI/PUIfrom’ for reading: No such file or directory
root#



I am coming to some conclusions:
    * The problem is my hardware configuration.
    * There may be something wrong with my flash drive with the "cobbled" tahr-6.0.6.
    * Since you can't duplicate my experience, then there is a conflict between the GUI, the search function and my hardware.


System-wide search
I think I've said this before: searching the entire system is not appropriate. If the system has multiple drives and/or large drives, it will take a very long time to find the target - a waste of time. I submit that most if not all of us keep our ISOs in some known location; there's no need for a system-wide search. The user will normally know which ISO s(he) wants to install. Why not let the user navigate via a browse button and related code to the known location. Having a system-wide search function here is "finding work for a tool" demonstration.

It seems to me that search is appropriate when you don't know where the target is. Furthermore, I can't conceive that the user does not know the exact ISO s(he) wants to "burn". It is better IMHO to provide the means to navigate to the known location where ISOs are kept. But if there is an odd set of circumstances that warrant a system-wide search, the user can use pFind before using YaPI. Alternatively, the developer could provide both the ability to browse to a known place plus an independent "Search for ISOs" button for those odd cases. It is bad design to force all to use the system-wide search.

Another example of bad design is that once you begin the process, there is no way of backing out. Neither "Cancel" or "X" on the task-bar allows you to quit.

Trying yapi with -h or --help does not provide a help screen. Instead, yapi is launched. YaPI has no escape route once it starts - another poor design decision. YaPI does not make an entry in PPM/Uninstall. Hence, it does not provide the standard way to easily delete a properly created pet.

Quote:
Your placement of Puppy installs and iso's is not really the best.
snip
All my Puppy installs are just on a partition.
Example:
/mnt/sda1/xenialpup647085uefi

The argument that I have my ISOs too deep in a path is a specious one. Where you choose to place your ISOs or I, mine should not affect the efficacy of the search, even if there needs to be one. One should not design software solely on one's likes, environment or how the developer uses it.



Bye to YaPI GUI
These unsuccessful trials using YaPI from the Menu and from the console without an iso as a parameter, mark the end of my contribution. What has given me success is cd to where the target iso is, then yapi with the named iso. I'll use this procedure until there is a complete rewrite of YaPI.

Thanks for staying with me through this ordeal. Unfortunately, nobody else is interested.

Adios amigo!
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error_with_new_yapi.png


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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Mon 28 Aug 2017, 14:07    Post subject:  

My tahr-6.0.6 (via yapi tahr-6.0.6-uefi at console) was up and running for 14 hours yesterday before my wireless mouse froze (battery). And this morning, it has been running for nearly 4 hours.

I downloaded and manually installed Firefox 55.0.3 and Seamonkey 2.48, downloaded & installed cursor themes, emelfm2, pFind 1.3 and apulse, set up LibreOffice from my repository; pup-event to prompt for save at shutdown. The only negativity is that I haven't got apulse to work, but in all fairness, I did not spend much time with it and had not used it before.

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 28 Aug 2017, 22:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
in the cobbled 6.0.6

You never explained what that was.
Sounds to me like a not normal Tahrpup 6.0.6.


Quote:
My tahr-6.0.6 (via yapi tahr-6.0.6-uefi at console).

This should be a clean install of Tahrpup 6.0.6 even with the stuff you added to it.

Install yapi in it.
It should have:
yapi listed in the uninstall section of PPM.
menu >Setup >yapi in the menu.
(yapi will be the last item in Setup. I have had so many things added to the setup section of the menu, that I had to scroll the setup section to see yapi)

Try running yapi.
Maybe the yapi search will work better for you.

I can not duplicate the problems you are seeing running yapi in a fresh clean install of Tahrpup64 6.0.6 or Tahrpup 6.0.6.

However, I do not have iso's 5 layers deep in a Windows file system and having to use a Linux program ntfs-3g to access and read stuff located there.
All my iso's are in directories or Windows folders one layer deep. Basically a directory or folder just on the partition.

yapi should definitely have no problems installed to Tahrpup 6.0.5.
It was developed running in Tahrpup 6.0.5

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked

Last edited by bigpup on Tue 29 Aug 2017, 08:53; edited 3 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 28 Aug 2017, 23:09    Post subject:  

Quote:
Trying yapi with -h or --help does not provide a help screen.

yapi is not a terminal (console) program, so it is not going to have terminal command options.
No -h or --help, because nothing to put in it.

All the needed help is built into the yapi windows. There is a help button, you push, in the windows that need one.

Quote:
Why not let the user navigate via a browse button and related code to the known location.

The biggest reason not to have this, was the location had to be already mounted to work.
A browse option will not mount a location.
It will only browse mounted locations.

A search can mount and unmount and search automatically.

A browse window is manual selection by navigating to locations. Again it will only see already mounted locations.

The help screen, if you hit the help button on the window for selecting what to install.
Explains going directly to the iso.

I guess I could add an explanation of how to navigate in Rox and how to mount a location to navigate to it.

Why in a help screen. Because this is not a normal way of using yapi. It is an alternate way.
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_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked

Last edited by bigpup on Tue 29 Aug 2017, 08:35; edited 1 time in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9525
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 28 Aug 2017, 23:16    Post subject:  

Cancel button in every window.
Well, I guess there could be.
At present time, the cancel button is in the locations that seemed to be a point at which you would want to choose to cancel.

By navigating to the iso and running yapi.
You are not seeing all the normal windows.
This bypasses some of the selection screens.

You can always just kill the window, at anytime, by clicking the X at right top of window. Basically canceling the program.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Tue 29 Aug 2017, 20:41    Post subject:  

bigpup, I did not need to follow your instructions for I have been doing the steps so often. But as proof to you, I tried again and have provided info and screenies for the steps along the way.

My almost pristine tahr-6.0.6-uefi is running
Code:
root# which yapi
root#

YaPI is not installed yet.

Downloaded a new YaPI, installed the pet and tested the install. The selected yapi is:
YaPI 2016-03-25 final release
see screenie=YaPI successfully installed
Code:
root# which yapi
/usr/sbin/yapi
root#

YaPI appears in Menu>Setup
YaPI is in the PPM/Uninstall. see screenie=yapi now in uninstall.png

See screenie= drive icons before addition of new drive.png
Inserted a brand new (never used) 16 Gb flash drive
See screenie= drive icons after addition of new drive.png

Launching YaPI from Menu>Setup
see screenies=seq-1 to seq-6
At seq-3, I selected the 'any' option and click OK.
At seq-4 is the search ...wait dialog which ends with
seq-5, a part of the Usage for Xdialog script.
On closing the box, a popup with Goodbye was shown and deleted too quickly for me to make a screenie.
seq-6: Chosen ISO not found. Restart please. This message despite me not choosing an ISO. Clicked OK to end.

The screenie=location of iso does not matter shows a /ISO directory at /mnt/sda1 and two ISOs within. This shows that it matters not whether the ISOs are located one or five levels deep - in my hardware configuration.

Can I suggest that you ask L18L for help. He likes to use gettext and i18n in his scripts; I don't know what they are but I have a 'gut feeling' that their use is the cause.

BTW, I only found out today that I can right-click an ISO and select
"open with.... yapi". It is there in the thread, but once I saw Frugal, I ignored the rest of the blurb.
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_________________
B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Tue 29 Aug 2017, 20:59    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
As for help.
All the needed help is built into the yapi windows. There is a help button, you push, in the windows that need one.

There were 2 reasons for me trying yapi -h (---help).
1.At some point during my trials I had seen something like yapi [this] [][], so I assumed it was runable from the console.
2. If runable from the console, then like all normal unix/linux scripts, I assumed it would have a -help parameter .

When -h borked, I decided to try yapi tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso from the console. Nothing in the thread told me it would work. I did so based solely on the seeing of yapi [this] which suggested a possible yapi [any] where 'any' would be an iso.

B.K. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Why not let the user navigate via a browse button and related code to the known location.

bigpup wrote:
Quote:

The biggest reason not to have this, was the location had to be already mounted to work.
A browse option will not mount a location.
It will only browse mounted locations.

A search can mount and unmount and search automatically.

A browse window is manual selection by navigating to locations. Again it will only see already mounted locations.

So if I had (say 16 drives) and even if I knew that the ISO I wanted to install was on sdc7, I would have to mount sdc7 first. I cede the point that the search would be best, if and only if, I the user has no idea on which device is the ISO I want. But if I knew the ISO is on device sdc7, it would take much less time to mount, navigate and select than to wait for the search to complete then peruse the list of ISOs the search returned. My 80 Gb took a fairly long time. I don't want to guess how long it took to search your 4 drives.

Quote:
The help screen, if you hit the help button on the window for selecting what to install.
Explains going directly to the iso.

I explained before my reason(s) for using yapi -h. So, I won't repeat. But let me add.
I saw the help in that dialog-box you refer to, but I would have expected a help button there to be context sensitive and as I was not in doubt about what install from the "actual running tahrpup" or another puppy stored somewhere else meant, I did not push the button.
Quote:
I guess I could add an explanation of how to navigate in Rox and how to mount a location to navigate to it.

Why in a help screen. Because this is not a normal way of using yapi. It is an alternate way.

No! No! A help screen in a dialog-box is supposed to enhance the users' understanding of the options presented in the dialogbox. You shouldn't just put any and everything in a help. I don't think developers should try to explain frugal vs full install or how to navigate in Rox in an installation. Some basic knowledge has to be assumed.

You must be tired of me harping about design, so I'll stop now.

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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B.K. Johnson

Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 639

PostPosted: Tue 29 Aug 2017, 21:01    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Cancel button in every window.
Well, I guess there could be.
At present time, the cancel button is in the locations that seemed to be a point at which you would want to choose to cancel.

Not could. Should. Always give the user the option to back out at any time.

I saw one dialog-box with a Cancel button. It worked.

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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B.K. Johnson

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Posts: 639

PostPosted: Tue 29 Aug 2017, 21:13    Post subject:  

Using the right-click on an ISO > Open with ...Yapi option.
Earlier, I wrote that:
    1. I had not seen mention of this option in the thread (though it was there) and
    2. The Help button in a dialog-box noted the option, but I had not pressed the help button as I did not need any help in the context of the page.

The new flash drive I had used in the last failed attempt with Yapi from Menu>Yapi was still inserted in the USB port. From a ROX window, I right-clicked the tahr-6.0.6-uefi.iso at /sda1/ISOs, and chose Open with ...>Yapi.
Yapi went through its paces and was even able to advise that although my pristine flash drive did not have the boot flag set, I could continue with Grub4Dos then use gParted after to set the boot flag. That was a very nice touch. Very nice indeed. Smile Smile

So, there are 2 successful modes to use YaPI (for me, YMV):
    1. From the console, enter yapi <name of your target iso>
    2. right-click of an ISO > Open with ...Yapi

The option from Menu>Yapi still does not work, despite the same screens as the successful options, and despite the availability of ISOS at /mnt/sda1/ISOs/, just 1 level deep..

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B.K. Johnson
tahrpup-6.0.5 PAE (upgraded from 6.0 =>6.0.2=>6.0.3=>6.0.5 via quickpet/PPM=Not installed); slacko-5.7 occasionally. Frugal install, pupsave file, multi OS flashdrive, FAT32 , SYSLINUX boot, CPU-Dual E2140, 4GB RAM

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