T.O.P.L.E.S.S. Version 1.0.1 - now available !!!

[B.K. Johnson]

Once installed, Menu=>Desktop=>Pcur and select the cursor you want.

I'm just wondering how did you get to that menu entry Pcur?

so it doesn't show up in the menu. Needed to start Pcur by terminal!

Pcur was there when TOPLESS booted into tahr64 (not tahr) and I used it. Used the cursor pointer too. Exited the system and when the cursor did not persist on next boot, I tried to repeat, but Pcur was not present. JWM mouse/keyboardWizard (I think) would have allowed me to download and install the pet but I did not bother. The reason for its absence I suspect is either (a) mix up of tahr64 and tahr (b) I had clicked on one of the VarioMenu and got switched into LazY Puppy (c) a new menu.lst presented a true tahr64 menu which does not have Pcur. I am currently using tarh-6.0.5-PAE which originally started as 6.0.2 and updated by 666philb's online upgrades. It has Pcur. If I have a tahr-6.0.2, I'll check if it's included in that version.

However, good news:
Yeah! But quite some work.
An ordinary user would not have known what to do. And that's the problem with TOPLESS. It's new. It's complicated. It is going to evolve.

A probably next version of T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is going to include this feature as well!
Should not be probably; it surely should be, you having done the hard work already. How the standard distros do not have it in OOTB is surprising. It's the first pet I install with a new puppy. Glad you like it.

@All developers
Note the kudos. Try it. Include cursor themes in your distros.

[LazY Puppy]

The quotes are from the two posts above.

Touche! But with just main sfs and not the main puppy.sfs, I thought there may be an sfs for your TOPLESS system. You know you have so many.

Yes I know. There are 724 SFS Modules in my SFS Pool at my USB HD used by 6 remastered LazY Puppy and 12 T.O.P.L.E.S.S. LazY Puppy 5 Systems. Sorry for being not clear enough on main puppy sfs.

There is no main sfs for T.O.P.L.E.S.S. as it is just the Builder to turn a JWM Puppy Linux into a LazY Puppy 5 and such LazY Puppy 5 will completely run without the T.O.P.L.E.S.S. RoxApp Directory.

I can mount the sfs; editing for various situations is a different matter for many of us. Would it not be easier for us to just make the changes to a puppy then remaster? Does TOPLESS have functionality that will make this a no-brainer?

Of course you can make changes and then doing a remaster.

BUT: you'll need to boot then without to load a config file which can be done by a menu entry in menu.lst - the one that says (RAM) Originalversion. As nothing has changed on the main puppy sfs when building the LazY Puppy 5 by T.O.P.L.E.S.S. it will boot e.g. tahr in original.

Remove /etc/profile.local before starting to remaster!
Make sure to have a backup of the initrd.gz before remastering!

I do understand the Seamonkey example

Good.

I read the link to Save settings back ... before. My understanding is that it provides the names of the variables/definitions that should be included in the configuration file. I did not see the configuration file name(s) or where to find it(them).
lped looks to me like a configuration file and this is at the end of it.

No, this post: Save settings back to T.O.P.L.E.S.S. System SFS Modules is not about the config files. it is about the T.O.P.L.E.S.S. System SFS Modules and it doesn't contain any information about variables and/or definitions to be included in the config files - except it mentions: defining a default wine sfs in tahr.6.0.2.lped.cfg.

Just open up the boot directories of your converted Puppies. You should notice lots of additional files and directories. Directory ConfigData says it all. There should be at least three files. Two main config files plus one sub config file (the lped one).

The menu entries in menu.lst referring to the main config files by boot parameter pconfig (which is all explained here). Look at these files and read the post about the config files again, and you'll notice its logical build structure.

Looking into these files by using a text editor will also be helpful as there are EN comments made and you'll find the variables/definitions to be edited to setup different wallpapers and everything else that is mentioned/explained here.

Notice all of the files (including the sfs and menu-xxx.lst files in boot directory) have the $DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX and the $DISTRO_VERSION in its name!

It seems we work from within TOPLESS

No. You just used T.O.P.L.E.S.S. once. When building the LazY Puppy 5. That says: copying some files plus renaming them and doing changes only on the initrd.gz.

the hint is we will use SFSP.L.U.S.

Yes, which is the main part of a LazY Puppy 5 and remains as an SFS Module for a converted Puppy (LazY Puppy 5) e.g. sfsplus_tahr64_6.0.5.sfs.

Pcur was there when TOPLESS booted into tahr64 (not tahr) and I used it. Used the cursor pointer too. Exited the system and when the cursor did not persist on next boot, I tried to repeat, but Pcur was not present. JWM mouse/keyboardWizard (I think) would have allowed me to download and install the pet but I did not bother. The reason for its absence I suspect is either (a) mix up of tahr64 and tahr (b) I had clicked on one of the VarioMenu and got switched into LazY Puppy (c) a new menu.lst presented a true tahr64 menu which does not have Pcur. I am currently using tarh-6.0.5-PAE which originally started as 6.0.2 and updated by 666philb's online upgrades. It has Pcur. If I have a tahr-6.0.2, I'll check if it's included in that version.

See attached image.

An ordinary user would not have known what to do. And that's the problem with TOPLESS. It's new. It's complicated. It is going to evolve.

Yes, an ordinary user can't do this.
No, T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is not complicated, but yes, it is new.

It is already evolving as it has now the Mouse Cursor Option included and is also able to turn LxPup (e.g. 15.12) and also X-Tahr (e.g. 6.0.2) into a LazY Puppy 5. Older versions before Precise needs too many tweaks so I'm not supporting these versions of Puppy.

Should not be probably; it surely should be, you having done the hard work already. How the standard distros do not have it in OOTB is surprising.

Probably as I seem not being able to tell anything understandably about T.O.P.L.E.S.S. in EN language.

@All developers
Note the kudos. Try it.

Thanks.

[B.K. Johnson]

LazY Puppy wrote:

BUT: you'll need to boot then without to load a config file which can be done by a menu entry in menu.lst - the one that says (RAM) Originalversion. As nothing has changed on the main puppy sfs when building the LazY Puppy 5 by T.O.P.L.E.S.S. it will boot e.g. tahr in original.

I am ahead of you. I have booted into tahr64-6.0.5 (RAM) and also into tahr64-6.0.5 (RAM) with cfg (name may not be correct).
During the boot sequence I spied the configuration file name: tahr64_6.0.5.cfg. Then did a search and found it in tahr64-6.0.5/ConfigData/. I made the wallpaper be BlackHoleInTheSky but haven't rebooted yet.

Probably as I seem not being able to tell anything understandably about T.O.P.L.E.S.S. in EN language.

Don't give up. English is a very difficult language.

BTW, this post is being made from T.O.P.L.E.S.S. tahr64-6.0.5 with Config????

[EDIT} 31 Jan 2016 @ 1:32
The wallpaper change worked.

[B.K. Johnson]

LazY Puppy wrote here:

When loading wi-fi drivers by connect software from a directory at boot partition works well, just keep it as is. No need to change anything on this. Though you could e.g. create a sfs (e.g.: wifi-drivers.sfs or wifi-drivers64) and load them automatically at boot up. Enter wifi-drivers.sfs or wifi-drivers64.sfs at MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST in main config file and change MYBOOTSFSLOADLISTOPT=0 to MYBOOTSFSLOADLISTOPT=1.

In main config there is: MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="".
Obviously, if there is only 1 SFS in the list, I just place it between the quotes. How do I list if there are multiple SFSs? Are they separated by commas?

[EDIT}
Where do I place the SFS I create for the wi-fi driver? In the boot partition?

[LazY Puppy]

The wallpaper change worked.

Pretty Cool!

I think now you are on your way to explore its possibilities...

Where do I place the SFS I create for the wi-fi driver? In the boot partition?

I depends on how you'll load the SFS.

When loading at boot up (MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST=) it goes into boot directory.
When loading by a Menu Entry (by created RunScript) it goes into directory Modules at boot partition.
When loading after X is running (MYSFSLOADLIST=) it goes into directory Modules at boot partition.
When loading in some different way you are free to put it either into boot directroy or boot partition.

Just notice the part above in main config file:

# Global Directory to load SFS Files from
#----------------------------------------
# Enter a Name at Boot Partition here. SFS Files loaded at /root/Startup or
# /usr/local/autostart will load from this Directory. SFS Files loaded at
# /etc/profile.local needs to be in Boot Directory.
MYGLOBALSFSDIR=Modules

In main config there is: MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="".
Obviously, if there is only 1 SFS in the list, I just place it between the quotes. How do I list if there are multiple SFSs? Are they separated by commas?

All comments done to MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST= and MYSFSLOADLIST= saying:

KEEP THE QUOTES, USE SPACES !

Do not use paths, ONLY the name of sfs is needed.

Please tell me what SFS is in the list of MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST=. Did you place it there? It should be empty by default - except you did edit its entry.

Note: the top of the main config says:

# Don't use quotes, except where using quotes is announced
#---------------------------------------------------------
# Use File Names without Path Names.
# Any else usage is marked!


Just a tip:

Make a manual diff by loading e.g. tahr_6.0.5.cfg and tahr_6.0.5-BlackHoleInTheSky.cfg into a text editor. You will notice some differences.

However, have fun playing around with...

[LazY Puppy]

Ok,

ready for an example how to boot into a different mouse cursor theme?

Good.

As I had mentioned earlier:

I downloaded the Mouse Cursor Package, extracted its content and copied this content into extracted designs_xxx_xxx.sfs. Then rebuilt the SFS. All done manually as the rebuild script to rebuild the designs_xxx_xxx.sfs doesn't include code to store content of /root/.icons inside of designs_xxx_xxx.sfs.

Repeat this. To edit the SFS, right-click it and choose Edit SFS or probably SFS Edit. You already know how to extract the .pet package.

If the SFS is rebuilt and placed into sub-directory Update open file xxx_xxx-etc.profile.local from sub-directory BootUp.

In between of this marked section

###############################################################################
# User Section - please add the your Code below here
###############################################################################

###############################################################################
# End of User Section
###############################################################################

place the code:

ln -snf "NameOfChosenMouseCursorThemeHere" /root/.icons/default

and save it.

The NameOfChosenMouseCursorThemeHere would be a directory name from /root/.icons

The code added will be executed from /etc/profile.local at boot up, after the designs_xxx_xxx.sfs is loaded. So when X desktop appears the mouse cursor theme should be activated already.

Reboot...

Please, let me know if this has worked.

Thanks.

[B.K. Johnson]

Lazy Puppy
Thanks for the cursor_themes tutorial, but I'll look into it later tonight. I want to get your response to these three questions/scenarios first Please! The tutorial may give me some insights to the following but My head is focussed elsewhere right now.

Scenario #1
You explained here: making these permanent/persistent

pet
wi-fi driver

How about a .deb?
Do I have to first convert the deb to pet using deb2pet then convert the pet to sfs using dir2sfs or mksquashfs? Or is there another (simpler/one-step)?

Scenario #2
The deb ia emelFM2. PPM has it as well as a svg package.
My usual routine after installation is that I tweak it from the program interface. For example, when I right-click an html file I can opt to view it using any of 3 browsers I have installed. Any suggestion how I can replicate this in T.O.P.L.E.S.S.? I would rather you discuss conceptually rather than you working on your own as in the cursor_themes example.

Scenario #3
For each installed distro, I install motherApplication []
I create an icon and place in the path
I create a Menu item bjApplication, with appropriate bjApplication.desktop
bjApplication_launch is a bash file in the path.
bjApplication_launch consists of the single line motherApplication -xxx (which launches bjApplication
I set bjApplication_launch permissions to be executable.

To convert to T.O.P.L.E.S.S., I will create motherApplication.sfs, place it in the boot partition, and in tahr64-6.0.5/ConfigData/tahr64_6.0.5.cfg make MYBOOTSFSLOADLISTOPT=1 (if not already set), and make MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="motherApplication".

That only installs motherApplication. What will I do afterward?

[B.K. Johnson]

LazY Puppy wrote:

All comments done to MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST= and MYSFSLOADLIST= saying:

KEEP THE QUOTES, USE SPACES !

Do not use paths, ONLY the name of sfs is needed.

Got it! That means names cannot have spaces.

Please tell me what SFS is in the list of MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST=. Did you place it there? It should be empty by default - except you did edit its entry.

The list is null. I inserted wifi-drivers64.sfs in quotes. The SFS itself is in the boot partition.

BFN

[B.K. Johnson]

LazY Puppy
As I stated in an earlier post, I downloaded (not installed) cursor_themes-1.1.pet. As you instructed a while back, I p[aced the pet into /tahr64-6.0.5/InstallMe. While booting, I saw quickly flashing on the screen cursor_themes pet installed. When it finished booting, I had the regular cursor, but when I navigated to Workstation=>Desktop=>JWMDeskManager and clicked on Mouse cursor, there before me were the cursors. So, the pet was installed . I selected whitelarge to install and I had my new cursor.

Now, after my new whitelarge cursor is working, I am reading your post and looking into the files and directories you mention, I can report the following:
1. /root/.icons/ has all the cursors.
2. The tooltip at /root/.icons/default states: Symbolic link to whitelarge

Can You confirm that if I place the line:

Code: Select all

ln -snf "NameOfChosenMouseCursorThemeHere" /root/.icons/default

in tahr64-6.0.5/BootUp/tahr64_6.0.5-etc.profile.local
in this section
###############################################
# User Section - please add the your Code below here
###############################################
like this:

###############################################
# User Section - please add the your Code below here
ln -snf "NameOfChosenMouseCursorThemeHere" /root/.icons/default
###############################################
and save, that should work. I feel very positive about this.

Sorry, no screenshots . I am working from T.O.P.L.E.S.S. with no familiar tools.

Oh, oh! I think I spot a problem. You state:

The code added will be executed from /etc/profile.local at boot up, after the designs_xxx_xxx.sfs is loaded. So when X desktop appears the mouse cursor theme should be activated already.

No such file exists. There is a /etc/profile.d.
===============================================
The files included in the SFS made from the wifi driver was found at /root.

BFN

[LazY Puppy]

Scenario #1
You explained here: making these permanent/persistent

pet
wi-fi driver

How about a .deb?
Do I have to first convert the deb to pet using deb2pet then convert the pet to sfs using dir2sfs or mksquashfs? Or is there another (simpler/one-step)?

It is equal to a .pet. Just right-click and choose Extract (notice the difference by Icon: PET Icon for .pet, DEB Icon for .deb).

At least this will work for the 32bit Ubuntu Puppies like Tahr. I don't know if 64bit versions can do this. Check this and if it won't work, we will return to this on 64bit.

Slacko 32 bit may work also as there is a binary to extract .deb files inside the binary32_xxx_xxx.sfs. The binary64_xxx_xxx.sfs has just a dummy file.

Scenario #2
The deb ia emelFM2. PPM has it as well as a svg package.
My usual routine after installation is that I tweak it from the program interface. For example, when I right-click an html file I can opt to view it using any of 3 browsers I have installed. Any suggestion how I can replicate this in T.O.P.L.E.S.S.? I would rather you discuss conceptually rather than you working on your own as in the cursor_themes example.

I will reply to this later tonight, as I need do download the packages. Though I can say yet, that the svg package to download contains only the Icons for emelFM2 in .svg format which means Scalable Vector Graphics. The most popular program ever using Scalable Vector Graphics has been Calamus (in the 1980's on Atari ST).

Scenario #3
For each installed distro, I install motherApplication []
I create an icon and place in the path
I create a Menu item bjApplication, with appropriate bjApplication.desktop
bjApplication_launch is a bash file in the path.
bjApplication_launch consists of the single line motherApplication -xxx (which launches bjApplication
I set bjApplication_launch permissions to be executable.

To convert to T.O.P.L.E.S.S., I will create motherApplication.sfs, place it in the boot partition, and in tahr64-6.0.5/ConfigData/tahr64_6.0.5.cfg make MYBOOTSFSLOADLISTOPT=1 (if not already set), and make MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="motherApplication".

First: MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="motherApplication" needs to be MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST="motherApplication.sfs". Also for the Wallpaper: MYWALLPAPER=BlackHoleInTheSky.jpg

All of those steps you are doing after installing motherApplication you'll need to do inside of the paths of the extracted .sfs file that you'd created from the .pet package. You may need to create directories inside of the directory of the extracted .sfs. If there are symbolic links to be created use: relative.

Got it! That means names cannot have spaces.

Yes, names and paths can't use spaces. Spaces are used to separate files listed.

The list is null. I inserted wifi-drivers64.sfs in quotes. The SFS itself is in the boot partition.

If you want to load this at boot up it needs to be in boot directory.

Notice its difference: MYBOOTSFSLOADLIST and MYSFSLOADLIST.

Can You confirm that if I...

###############################################################################
# User Section - please add the your Code below here
###############################################################################

ln -snf "NameOfChosenMouseCursorThemeHere" /root/.icons/default

###############################################################################
# End of User Section
###############################################################################

Oh, oh! I think I spot a problem. You state:
Quote:
The code added will be executed from /etc/profile.local at boot up, after the designs_xxx_xxx.sfs is loaded. So when X desktop appears the mouse cursor theme should be activated already.

No such file exists. There is a /etc/profile.d.

In main config file check for: RUNMYSTARTUPSCRIPTBOOTCONTENT=1 and STARTUPSCRIPTBOOTCONTENT=""

If this is set like the above there should be a file /etc/profile.local. There should also be a file /etc/tahr_6.0.5-etc.profile.local (e.g. for tahr 6.0.5).

The files included in the SFS made from the wifi driver was found at /root.

Then the files are originally also at /root inside of the original package used. If you want to have those files on a different location you'll need to edit the .sfs and following the file system structure of Puppy starting from /.

[LazY Puppy]

Hi.

Tonight, Februar 8th of 2016, 02:29 German Time, I had decided to discontinue T.O.P.L.E.S.S.. That is expanded also for all my other works in Puppy Linux. Please, feel free to grab what you need, modify it and/or re-publish new versions - or just drop it.

Main reasons:

1. Obviously I'm not able to give any useful support to people trying my software.
2. Obviously my English knowledge is not well enough prepared to do such jobs (or to continue any of them).
3. Obviously most people in this forum (and probably also outside the forum) seems not to understand what I'm creating.
4. Obviously my available Time doing Puppy Linux in the public is now running out.
5. Obviously I can achieve much more when I'm developing in DE only.
6. Obviously there is mostly just a dead DE forum, so I can achieve even much more developing exclusively for my private needs.

Thanks to all the members of the forum offering help/support while I'm creating what most people doesn't seem to understand.

Of course I'm really happy owning my own versions of Puppy Linux plus all the programs I made (with your help). So before I'm getting totally dis-encouraged and disappointed I need to stop here, treasuring this happiness to continue being happy after each new boot of my Puppy Systems and its programs.

LazY Puppy (RSH, R-S-H)

[musher0]

Hello RSH.

Ah. You are behaving like a misunderstood artist. Mondrian, Borduas, etc.

> 3. Obviously most people in this forum (and probably also outside the forum)
seems not to understand what I'm creating.

Get used to it. People are not ready for geniuses like you.

Count yourself lucky that they were interested in your previous project. There was
a match then between the need and your offering; perhaps this context does not
exist now. Also the novelty effect. This effect cannot be repeated.

Obviously, you are also an idealist and a workaholic.
Second one not good, not good at all.
Go out in the fresh air and fill your lungs, enjoy the smell of it.

Sad news, but better this way for you, I think. You should not overwork yourself.

BFN.

[jamesbond]

@RSH - it could have been worse. You could have been trolled and insulted (like me) after all the efforts that you have spent. So consider yourself lucky

On the other hand, I would hope that you would continue your work on TOPLESS and Puppy in general. An artistic exploration is its own virtue. You don't need others to tell you it's good; *you* know it's good and that's why you want to share - what other think is of secondary relevance. Unless, of course, you crave for an audience - that's another matter altogether.

Variety is the spice of life. More puppies the better, not worse. Share what you have. Support only when you can. There is no obligation. Puppy is for Fun. When it stops being fun, as musher0 said, go take a break and walk outside. When you're bored being outside *maybe* doing Puppy stuff is fun again.

All the best. Sad to see you go.

[mavrothal]

Is unfortunate that many developers, puppy or otherwise, do not sense the appreciation of their work only when is too late. But hopefully is never "too late".

T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is a very interesting project communicated very ineffectively I'm afraid.
I'm not sure if language or complex/artistic expression is the problem but I think info pages can benefit from programming logic a lot. Simple linear narration with minimal conditions, cases, and loops
So allow me just a little (not necessarily optimal) example for maybe your next project (since this one appears to be stopping )

The opening paragraph reads

T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is much more than just a ToolBox. It will allow to Users to run a fresh, clean and un-remastered Puppy Linux just like a modular SFS-based LazY Puppy or L.A.S.S.I.E. and has been tested successfully in these Puppies: Sulu 004, Precise 5.7.1, Slacko 5.9.3, Slacko 64 5.9.1, Slacko 64 6.3.0, Tahr 6.0.2 CE, Tahr 6.0.5 CE, Tahr 64 6.0.2 CE, Tahr 64 6.0.4 CE, Tahr 64 6.0.5 CE, Unicorn 6.0, Vivid beta2 - and it should work also on newer versions of those Puppies listed. But for newer Slackos it needs some small tweaks in the future

It really provides no information about T.O.P.L.E.S.S. and unless someone had followed your work for the last 3-4 years has no idea what T.O.P.L.E.S.S. may be doing.
Then you need to read carefully ~15 posts an 5000 words to get the idea and decide if you want to try it or not. That is way too much.

It might have been better if you wrote something tike that:

Puppy is know for its OOTB usability and a lot of users prefer to use it without a savefile enjoying high functionality and security at the same time.
However, almost always additional programs must be installed and setting must be saved requiring to remaster/rebuild your puppy.
The remaster/rebuild process must be repeated for every puppy you may want to use or if you need to change your original applications/configuration at a latter point.
T.O.P.L.E.S.S. allows you to customise almost any puppy to your liking and run it without a save file or remaster, enjoying a fresh secure puppy every time.
It also allows you to change the set of additional application at any time by just modifying a simple text file.
Better yet it allows you to use similar or identical setups with different puppies without the need to repeat the entire process from scratch.
So if you like to customise and run your puppy without a save file, or you would like to do that, T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is for you.

And now you provide the minimal info/actions that someone must take to use T.O.P.L.E.S.S.
Additional info can be provided as users start asking questions

Good luck.

[oui]

Hi

I have to shame me: Until yet, I did not unpack your T.O.P.L.E.S.S., but I do often that:

If I test a Puppy, I test it working a certain, long time without interruption. And as it did be published by you, I did just began to test the 64-bit-Jessie/Stretch (was the same problem: Just starting with Jessie, immediately, for me, the other one, Stretch, and the problems for the user, me, grow to an point, where my daily work itself become to be to slow... And as I did not solve divers little problems in the 64 bit version, for ex. the flashplayer doesn't work properly, the puppyist coders are not responsible of that, but for the user, it is indifferent what is the source of there difficulties: they can not use unrestricted their PC..., I am now using the 32 bit version making really all what I will so as I will, but...

... with that I did return to the 32 bit age of computer, that I did begin in 1984, as I was assembler programmer on TMS9900 (Texas Instrument) in the German industry!

I own my second 64 bit PC, 10 years having 64 but using it in 32 bit! Why?

There is actually no puppy usable without restrictions like other good Puppy's (LazY one's for ex. . Thank you again for your wonderful creations in 32 bits) for me. The one requirement I have to meet in each OS is for ex. that after 5 minutes use of it I have to be able to look

http://france2.fr/jt/20h

it is my k.o. test for operating systems because that National TV chain checks and manages the access very more exigent as the most other one (not because it is one TV chain of the nation I belong to but because it do that) according the politic of French people to protect the propriety of brands (Lacoste, Hermes etc.).

today, the most 32 bit versions do that without any claim. it is not new that the 32 bit computer do that without claim but relatively new.

on 64-bit-OS, it stay often difficult.

I know, responsible is not Linux, not Puppy, not the Pyppyist coders, but the international right giving Adobe the right to block only ALL THE WORLD, ALL OUR PLANET (exactly as this definitively "vermin firm" does it again with AIR and Linux). but the effect reduces itself in my consideration to the fact: Nothing to do with divers OS's if they don't take care herself to give unlimited access to actually becoming «actual and normal basic use» of modern media.

We need in that time of overcrowding and global warming new ways.

It is a matter of survival for each human (the animal and plants will not benefit some survival: the most of them will definitively disappear of the universe in the short time of the live of such "vermin companies" like IBM, M$, Adobe etc. and I see a relation of cause to effect in the way we organize the world wide Public Benefit on one side and the protection of propriety of ideas or good at the other side, and this terrible constatation:

the life time of only one generation did cause for the nature the same destruction as the most possible big war.

more and more consumption, more and more and more propriety did ALREADY cause the biggest nature catastrophe of all times since creation of our planet. our intelligence is to absolutely nothing good...

the technological progress would did have permit to limit the disaster using with more care our resources and encouraging the better repartition of them and avoiding the explosion of our world population. The "vermin firms" like IBM, M$, Adobe etc. did block that chance.

It is not ok, that we write today 2016 and continue to use computers like in 1984 .

poor 32 bit computers of today! 500 $ play stations of Texas Instrument did in 1982 already have 32 bit CPU's and it was possible to build those CPU 40..50 time faster as slice bit computers (really done in the military sector), not yesterday, not the day before yesterday but in the age where a great part of you, puppyists, was not born!

for this reason, I will not test T.O.P.L.E.S.S. at all, use actually DebianPup32bit as a bridge against the technological difficulties, I need flash and skype, indifferent if it is protected software or not, as our governments and official institutions use them also in communication with world peoples,

on the meantime since more than 20 years sale standard hardware, being 64 bit PC's (or now ARM and such ones).

I am very sorry, that the Puppy world did resist so long to adopt the extremely progressive ideas of you Rainer. I observe only, that this is no one version of LazY Puppy for 64 bit being available with them.

[step]

Hi Lazy Puppy, when you are ready to come back to this forum come back please; when you feel that it's going to be fun again, and that you're going to enjoy yourself playing with us one more time. Meanwhile, good luck to you, there's a lot that you can do.

[B.K. Johnson]

Off the top, let me say that I am extremely sorry to see LazY Pupy take up his ball and leave the park. I hope his frustrations will soon abate and he will return to the kennels. Ranier, bang the hell out of those drums for a while then return and let's finish the job. For those who don't know, playing drums is one of his talents.

Mavrathol has expressed my feelings exactly.
Language is not the problem. The problem is what problem is RSH trying to solve and writing the appropriate documentation. Writing documentation is a skill. For you guys who write documentation for your programs, here is a worthwhile article.
https://opensource.com/business/15/5/write-better-docs
.
I tried T.O.P.L.E.S.S. out of curiousity, having a vague understanding from RSH's work 4 yrs ago. It was a showcase for a large number of very worthwhile SFSs. But inherent in the opening blurb for TOPLESS was the promise that it was a wrapper for any puppy; I could use my "fresh, clean, un-remastered" puppy as usual with just a few tweaks. I read "un-remastered" to mean I did not have to remaster to use, not that it had to be OOTB. My very first post in the thread raised the issue of installing the cursor_themes pet and having the settings persist over reboots. Immediately, it turned out that it wasn't something that was told in the documentation; it wasn't something that I could do; LazYPuppy had to download and solve the problem. It became evident that hand-holding would be needed with all the changes I wanted my puppy to have, so I could continue to be productive while testing. If it wasn't easy, why should I bother? I was concerned and hereasked if it would not be better to remaster.

The upshot is that if the user is content with a puppy OOTB, he will have no issues trying TOPLESS and its 724 SFSs. But if he has program tweaks to implement, if there are settings usually kept via pupsave, he should first remaster, then use the remastered puppy with T.O.P.L.E.S.S.

The fact is that T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is a vehicle to showcase LazYPuppy (the program). Its objecive is not to solve a problem that users have or percieve. Consequently, people are not drawn to it. It is a solution in search of a problem. Individual SFSs can solve problems, but the user needs to know he has that problem. To grab user attention, he needed to select 2 apps he thinks users have a problem with (especially if it has no known solution, or his is a better solution), then without going into the technical details, tell how to solve it the T.O.P.L.E.S.S. way.

[stemsee]

I just see topless as another very useful tool which needs additional work (automation) to simplify some of its uses (judging by the tutorials).

I can see how Rainer must have felt disappointed after the big release. I think we all understand that the amount of work put into this is staggering (just as I did with Nicons - desktop icon arrangement tool - which no one else uses - but I am glad I did it - even if it is un-needed! It is an option.) Topless is an option which when simplified will be very useful, but at the moment there is no target user except the experimentalist, the curious.

Rcrsn51 also makes available some of his work only through a personal message, no doubt disappointed by the lack of feedback this community generally offers. DebianDog too has countless boot methods which offer benefits that are seemingly un-impactful to the casual user, and one of the devs is also impatient, also being driven not by a need to be understood but by a need to do the job perfectly, in spite of human nature! Other puppy developers are prepared to give only what they were going to do for themselves anyway, and couldn't give a flying fsck if it really does the job for everyone in varying scenarios! The little work I imagine I do starts in puppyland but develops so as to be able to work in similar fashion on other distros too - anyone with no time to try it is missing out and I joyously know it!!

In short your input is very valuable, your expectations are too high, and your artistry and presentation are over the top! Which is exactly how I imagine you are in real life, and quite a handful (your poor mother!). But there you are ... continue if you want to, there is a quiet ready audience who enjoy all your performances, or stop and perform for yourself alone - but that wont make you happier, because you love to share, and that is what drives you!

If I were to tire of the addiction then I will not announce it I will simply stop posting.

regards
stemsee

[LazY Puppy]

Hi.

Thanks for the replies, nice words and criticisms etc.pp.

It seems I need to make another statement as there seems to be some misunderstanding on why I'm discontinuing my work for Puppy in the public and/or my disappointments as well as on its announcement:

1. about T.O.P.L.E.S.S.

Please, do believe me, when I'm telling you that I was already in great doubt generally about publishing T.O.P.L.E.S.S. and offering it to the community before I did announce it. I better just shouldn't have done it!

2. about my Disappointments

I'm not disappointed about people/users/members not using my programs like T.O.P.L.E.S.S. etc.pp.

I'm disappointed about myself, not being able to do effectively comments and/or descriptions in EN language!

Therefor the Problem is:

- my brain just won't stop producing ideas
- the more ideas it produces the more complex it seems to become what I'm doing
- also my general Computer use seems to be totally different to others Peoples Computer use
- especially when it comes to Network stuff

On the other hand -you might have this in mind- at times when the German forum was a little more active there was some kind of goal we reached when the Lucid 528-4 based LazY Puppy was finished at version 2.0.2-005 and then installed on computers in classrooms at a German Public School as a replacement for Windows. In 2015 this LazY Puppy was replaced by a version based on tahr 6.0.2. The teacher -der-schutzhund- built this version by himself using my basic SFS P.L.U.S. programs and LazY Remaster Suite (still based on the remaster script from Lucid).

While working to reach this goal I could understand immediately what I had to read in a post and I could immediately write to a post what I was thinking in task to do a reply to a post.

So in DE think/read/write is a single task without any delay in action.

In EN this is the absolutely revert to me!

A simple post even takes about one hour sometimes as the logical sequence when typing words on a keyboard is different also. If you just could see how often I have to press backspace when writing in EN compared to DE.

So, publishing programs and being active on the forum to give "support/help" to users using my programs is keeping me away from developing my programs - far too much!

And this is the mean part of my disappointment.

3. about my Announcement

Just wanted to avoid a topic like: Where is RSH? or Where is LazY Puppy?

No.

As I said, I need keeping the Fun/Happiness in Puppy and my time is just running out. I'm now 52 and my new musical group Helix Research Out house is taking a huge part of my time as we usually do NOT play 4/4 rhythms. We play rhythms in 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, 11/8, 13/8 and 11/16 or 13/16 beats. I hadn't play the drums very much for appr. 3 years before that - so I was just a bit rusty then. Since we are only two musicians (Drums & 12 String Stick similar to a Chapman Stick plus a Live Looper) and as our main purpose is just to improvise on some basic structures there is a need to do a rehearsal almost daily (alone and combined).

Believe me, it's a heavy task to improvise and to play drum fills and more based on a 11/16 pattern etc.pp. And even more doing this to a Loop recorded live and then re-played live while improvising!

Though, discontinuing my programs doesn't mean not to enter the forum anymore!

As I'm obviously not that Expert and/or Genius I might be still in the need for Help by the forum members. Which had already made me able to do what I'd done so far...

Thanks

[LazY Puppy]

Hi.

Just changed the title of this topic from DISCONTINUED to PAUSED.

I was able to create a solution to make all the user settings persistent just like it is done by the use of a personal storage file (aka: save file). Though, T.O.P.L.E.S.S. don't need and don't use a personal storage file to achieve this.

By examining the code of some scripts that are involved at the shutdown/save process, I was able to grab a small section of code, built a new frame around it and now T.O.P.L.E.S.S. is able to save all the user settings persistent in a (oops, a new term!) Personal Configuration SFS Module (or just Config SFS).

Since all settings are stored into .sfs files (read only) they will remain unchanged until the user decides to save current settings again - the old Config SFS remains as a backup then automatically.

So, I'm going to restart this topic in a while...