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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5031
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep 2006, 04:27    Post subject:  

The XP Desktop & apps. interfaces are a mess, most folks just don't know the difference.

Making Puppy as good as XP isn't hard at all, it'll never be a carbon copy (thank God).

The apps. are the really critical & hard to reproduce part of the mimicing act.

As I'd said before... the file chooser & some of the other controls in Linux leave alot to be desired.
I'm not saying that the Win. equivilents are much better, but that folks are use to them.

Linux apps. are real good & in some cases better, but the polish & functionality needs help.
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hendrikus

Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Indonesia

PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep 2006, 19:45    Post subject:  

I think I made an mistake when I mention that a XP theme would create a quick acceptance of Puppy as workstation. Marketing technical I had to know this.

Putting a XP theme the users will pretend it's a real XP clone, but when they using the filemanager (Explorer) they are already confused... in their opinion it hasn't the functionality of WindowsXP. The same with other applications.

Last week I changed the workstations in a fluxbox theme, no startbutton, black menu's without any logo's, some icons on the desktop for the main applications. They see it as professional without glamour. Actually they liked to work with it and told me that Linux is indeed much faster then Windows. They don't spend time to compare with XP applications but accept the small learning curve to change to Linux.

Maybe it's indeed better to just create a professional functioning Linux Desktop to avoid all XP/Puppy comparison questions.

Hendrikus
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 00:58    Post subject:  

Folks, not going to take sides, but a lot of dis-service has been done to Linux and Unix through what one side sees as name-calling, and the other side sees as being truthful.

The Geek/Nerd (I'm not being unpleasant, that is what Joe Public calls the back-room techo's) folk do think differently from the users and the admins in the user environment. It is not surprising, because their two approach views are different.

The end-user, and in the business sector, the end-users' management, are those that a non-Microsoft product promoter has to consider very closely. Not so much the tech's who can usually work their way around most things, even changing the look completely as in a previous post.

I've been around a number of forums, and the knives that come out regularly on some are quite frightening, actually. Please let's just pull together for the sake of the product - which surely is why we are here?

I remember posting a comment on one of the LQ forums which I lfted from elsewhere, an interview with the Chairman (I think) of Amiga who was asked about the Linux distro wars and he opined sadly that it was his opinion that what had killed Commodore/Amiga was the ruthless attacks on one another by Amiga afficionadoes. And he suspected Linux could be killed off as an acceptable (to the public) choice to Microsoft if Linux users didn't stop flame wars.

Not suggesting this has become a flame war. But I think we all would rather it didn't take the next couple of steps in that direction.

Puppy is Great.

Puppy Pro will be greater.

I would love to buy Crossover Office if I knew how to make it work with Puppy.

Perhaps that's our tech friends' penchant, eh? To help us users work it out?

Have fun, puppy is wagging his tail.

So is my cat Maximus Smile

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 04:58    Post subject:  

MU wrote:
looks great, a iso certainly would be good.
Can you upload it somewhere?

We can mirror it then.
If not, I can send you the data to upload on dotpups.de , from there I can move it to htb65.de and puptrix.org

Going asleep now, I'll send you a pm.
Mark

I could mirror one or two smallish isos for you. I have an ADSL2+ connection.

If I start doing that I can then lean on my ISP to offer to mirror too.

slightly new topic:

Been looking everywhere for the XP themes and apart from the basic one that comes with v2 (JWM) I can't find the wallpaper shown at here nor the theme it supposedly goes with.

I wonder if the Redmond people have claimed it infringes summat?

Richard in Australia

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 06:38    Post subject:  

thanks, we have mirrored it already, see:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68676&highlight=#68676
Mark
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5031
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 20:18    Post subject:  

hendrikus; Don't be deterred from a XP like PuppyPro, the desktop will draw them in.
And as you said, hopefully they'll take the time to learn the differences in the apps.

PuppyPro would make a great LanPuppy for an office full of diskless PCs.
When the PCs don't have any drives in them the cost & maintenance rate go down.
And diskless PC users can still use USB flash drives for loading & saving personal data.
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hendrikus

Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Indonesia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 23:01    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:

PuppyPro would make a great LanPuppy for an office full of diskless PCs.
When the PCs don't have any drives in them the cost & maintenance rate go down.
And diskless PC users can still use USB flash drives for loading & saving personal data.


Thats where I'm dreaming of.... I still remember when I worked with Digital VAX, IBM S36, Silicon Graphics and all that kind of systems.... 200 till 300 terminals where no problem for just one system manager who was also the company accountant.

Everything gets wrong when the users needed PC systems with Microsoft Software.... this needed to be connected to these mini systems.... a nightmare, at that moment the 200 - 300 employees become part-time system managers and everyone had his voice in what software has to be used..... decentralization was the key issue. The information wasn't anymore in hands of the company owners, no they has to ask very friendly to his employees to be so kind to share the information on his 'private PC'. After implementing PC's the business managers lose control and try hard to create controllable networks..... till now they failed and lose their fight against the PC user.

Puppy Prof workstations connected to a server with webbased company critical applications would make history becomes future.

I'm currently testing a file-, print-, web-, mail-, fax-, application- server based on Puppy, very nice created by one of my IT guy's.... Still some small problems in functionality because I want to have it fully plug and play without any technical interaction.
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 23:09    Post subject:  

You are spot on, Hendrikus.

I worked in Sweden, for six months in 1990, in a company that deployed dumb terminals off its VAX... yes it was slow, even for those days, but without "each employee being a part-time system manager and everyone had his voice in what software has to be used" (I love that phrase, it is soooo true) we all did our work nicely.

I think my node was the slowest on the network, lol Smile

Puppy has a definite niche in that situation.

Nicely described, hendrikus Smile

Richard in (South) Australia

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 23:16    Post subject:  

MU wrote:
thanks, we have mirrored it already, see:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68676&highlight=#68676
Mark

Checksum failed on the first listed server sighted at that link.

Trying the other download. Let you know how it goes.

Wondering if you have an answer for my second point in the post you responded to?
Quote:
Been looking everywhere for the XP themes and apart from the basic one that comes with v2 (JWM) I can't find the wallpaper shown at here nor the theme it supposedly goes with.

I wonder if the Redmond people have claimed it infringes summat?

I might add I have done a general google search and it looks like even the ones for Windows have all been pulled.

That was why I made the second statement in that quote above.

Richard in (South) Australia

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2006, 23:58    Post subject:  

I'm not shure which picture you mean.

Please right-click the picture -> copy image
Then in your next reply: edit -> paste

Then such a URL should be pasted:
http://rhinoweb.us/RhinoEnlightenedss2.jpg

Do you mean this picture?
It uses the Enlightenment-desktop:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6420
But the background-picture must be from somewhere else, I did not add that to Enlightenment.


The page there shows beside JWM some other WindowManagers (Desktops).

One with some Windows-like themes is available here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=9404&highlight=icewmultra
You can see preview-pictures of many of the 50 included themes here:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/

Mark
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 03:58    Post subject:  


Here is a front end to wine that you might consider for the beta
http://tsx.nl/index.php?p=winexs

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 07:20    Post subject:  

MU wrote:
I'm not shure which picture you mean.

Please right-click the picture -> copy image
Then in your next reply: edit -> paste

This one, thanks, Mark...


Lobster, I have used a WINE GUI like that, I think on PC-BSD (a port of FreeBSD) - and it rocks Smile

But all said and done, if Crossover Office would run in Puppy, I think I would opt to buy it, if I could also use it on any other Linuxes I was trying out.

I really would like to settle on Puppy, it has so much more of what I need to use, packaged in a more useable way, and it's speed is terrific.


Mark, I downloaded the ISO again, this time from the second of the two mirrors. It was 20 Mb larger and the checksum matched. I burned it and it runs, with two noticeable problems.

1. It is appreciably slower, which you would expect, with all the extra stuff in it.

2. There is something corrupted prior to the ISO creation as I get a message regardless of what theme saying I can't alter the taskbar height for that reason.

Each download of Puppy 2 I have tried does that if you change to the XP theme, and the solution is to go back to the default theme, change the taskbar height, and then reapply the theme.

Not so with the Pro version, it is stuck at corrupted.

So, I'm going to do some customisation of my own and submit it for comments.

Thanks for the download, anyway.

I do have the succesful downloads I've made; they are available at http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/puppy/download_iso/ short-term (I haven't tried the Qemu VM yet) just for my own convenience, if I'm visiting friends' homes, because of my "fat pipe" back to my ISP Smile

Richard in South Australia

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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 08:55    Post subject:  

that's an Icewm theme, i think ... i made an XP theme or 2, and AlienX made a few XP themes, and there may have been XP themes made by others

i seem to remember making an XP theme in which i took the best from other themes, and modified them slightly ... that pic looks like it might be the 1in1-xp theme, with the menu from xp-new ... i'm not sure about the wallpaper

some of my dotpup packages were hosted on the goosee.com server and were lost when Puppy moved to puppylinux.com

the original themes and wallpapers were on http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/ and http://www.kde-look.org/ and http://www.gnome-look.org/ ... and other websites
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 08:59    Post subject:  

that wallpaper might be from AlienX's Elberg.and.SilverXP.Themes.pup ... or not, i don't really know

see: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68486#68486
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 10:48    Post subject:  

It is the theme "Puppy-XP" for Icewm.
Icewm-Ultra includes it.

The background-picture is in /root/.icewm/themes/puppy-xp, to select it with Puppys Backgroundsetter there is this small problem:

/root/.icewm is a "hidden" folder.


1.) copy it with Rox to /usr/share/backgrounds.
To see this folder in Rox, click on the menu-icon "show hidden" in Rox.

2.) or in the Backgroundsetter, click on the "folder" to open the filedialog.
Enter a dot "." and hit the [tab] -key, to make hidden folders visible.
This is the general way to show hidden folders in Gtk based filedialogs.

3.) or create a symbolic link, to "overjump" the hidden folder:
ln -s /root/.icewm/themes/ /root/ice-themes

If you don't want to install icewm-ultra, but one of GuestToos Icewm-dotpups, look here for theme-dotpups without icewm itself:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=2223
Here are some Vista-themes I like:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10641

I think Puppy-XP is in this very old 3 MB dotpup, too, but am not shure:
http://noforum.de/dotpups/icewm-themecollection.pup
I like most themes in this dotpup less than the newer ones from Icewm-Ultra.

At moment, icewm-Ultra has the best theme-collection imho.
Largest, and some themes were slightly modified.
You might be able, to upgrade to newer versions of Icewm by installing GuestToos newer Icewm-Dotpup over it, but I did not tried that yet myself, as 1.2.26 works fine for me.
Here is his latest version 1.2.28:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4660

Mark
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