The XP Desktop & apps. interfaces are a mess, most folks just don't know the difference.
Making Puppy as good as XP isn't hard at all, it'll never be a carbon copy (thank God).
The apps. are the really critical & hard to reproduce part of the mimicing act.
As I'd said before... the file chooser & some of the other controls in Linux leave alot to be desired.
I'm not saying that the Win. equivilents are much better, but that folks are use to them.
Linux apps. are real good & in some cases better, but the polish & functionality needs help.
Puppy Professional just for business
I think I made an mistake when I mention that a XP theme would create a quick acceptance of Puppy as workstation. Marketing technical I had to know this.
Putting a XP theme the users will pretend it's a real XP clone, but when they using the filemanager (Explorer) they are already confused... in their opinion it hasn't the functionality of WindowsXP. The same with other applications.
Last week I changed the workstations in a fluxbox theme, no startbutton, black menu's without any logo's, some icons on the desktop for the main applications. They see it as professional without glamour. Actually they liked to work with it and told me that Linux is indeed much faster then Windows. They don't spend time to compare with XP applications but accept the small learning curve to change to Linux.
Maybe it's indeed better to just create a professional functioning Linux Desktop to avoid all XP/Puppy comparison questions.
Hendrikus
Putting a XP theme the users will pretend it's a real XP clone, but when they using the filemanager (Explorer) they are already confused... in their opinion it hasn't the functionality of WindowsXP. The same with other applications.
Last week I changed the workstations in a fluxbox theme, no startbutton, black menu's without any logo's, some icons on the desktop for the main applications. They see it as professional without glamour. Actually they liked to work with it and told me that Linux is indeed much faster then Windows. They don't spend time to compare with XP applications but accept the small learning curve to change to Linux.
Maybe it's indeed better to just create a professional functioning Linux Desktop to avoid all XP/Puppy comparison questions.
Hendrikus
Folks, not going to take sides, but a lot of dis-service has been done to Linux and Unix through what one side sees as name-calling, and the other side sees as being truthful.
The Geek/Nerd (I'm not being unpleasant, that is what Joe Public calls the back-room techo's) folk do think differently from the users and the admins in the user environment. It is not surprising, because their two approach views are different.
The end-user, and in the business sector, the end-users' management, are those that a non-Microsoft product promoter has to consider very closely. Not so much the tech's who can usually work their way around most things, even changing the look completely as in a previous post.
I've been around a number of forums, and the knives that come out regularly on some are quite frightening, actually. Please let's just pull together for the sake of the product - which surely is why we are here?
I remember posting a comment on one of the LQ forums which I lfted from elsewhere, an interview with the Chairman (I think) of Amiga who was asked about the Linux distro wars and he opined sadly that it was his opinion that what had killed Commodore/Amiga was the ruthless attacks on one another by Amiga afficionadoes. And he suspected Linux could be killed off as an acceptable (to the public) choice to Microsoft if Linux users didn't stop flame wars.
Not suggesting this has become a flame war. But I think we all would rather it didn't take the next couple of steps in that direction.
Puppy is Great.
Puppy Pro will be greater.
I would love to buy Crossover Office if I knew how to make it work with Puppy.
Perhaps that's our tech friends' penchant, eh? To help us users work it out?
Have fun, puppy is wagging his tail.
So is my cat Maximus
The Geek/Nerd (I'm not being unpleasant, that is what Joe Public calls the back-room techo's) folk do think differently from the users and the admins in the user environment. It is not surprising, because their two approach views are different.
The end-user, and in the business sector, the end-users' management, are those that a non-Microsoft product promoter has to consider very closely. Not so much the tech's who can usually work their way around most things, even changing the look completely as in a previous post.
I've been around a number of forums, and the knives that come out regularly on some are quite frightening, actually. Please let's just pull together for the sake of the product - which surely is why we are here?
I remember posting a comment on one of the LQ forums which I lfted from elsewhere, an interview with the Chairman (I think) of Amiga who was asked about the Linux distro wars and he opined sadly that it was his opinion that what had killed Commodore/Amiga was the ruthless attacks on one another by Amiga afficionadoes. And he suspected Linux could be killed off as an acceptable (to the public) choice to Microsoft if Linux users didn't stop flame wars.
Not suggesting this has become a flame war. But I think we all would rather it didn't take the next couple of steps in that direction.
Puppy is Great.
Puppy Pro will be greater.
I would love to buy Crossover Office if I knew how to make it work with Puppy.
Perhaps that's our tech friends' penchant, eh? To help us users work it out?
Have fun, puppy is wagging his tail.
So is my cat Maximus
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
I could mirror one or two smallish isos for you. I have an ADSL2+ connection.MU wrote:looks great, a iso certainly would be good.
Can you upload it somewhere?
We can mirror it then.
If not, I can send you the data to upload on dotpups.de , from there I can move it to htb65.de and puptrix.org
Going asleep now, I'll send you a pm.
Mark
If I start doing that I can then lean on my ISP to offer to mirror too.
slightly new topic:
Been looking everywhere for the XP themes and apart from the basic one that comes with v2 (JWM) I can't find the wallpaper shown at here nor the theme it supposedly goes with.
I wonder if the Redmond people have claimed it infringes summat?
Richard in Australia
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
thanks, we have mirrored it already, see:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... ght=#68676
Mark
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... ght=#68676
Mark
hendrikus; Don't be deterred from a XP like PuppyPro, the desktop will draw them in.
And as you said, hopefully they'll take the time to learn the differences in the apps.
PuppyPro would make a great LanPuppy for an office full of diskless PCs.
When the PCs don't have any drives in them the cost & maintenance rate go down.
And diskless PC users can still use USB flash drives for loading & saving personal data.
And as you said, hopefully they'll take the time to learn the differences in the apps.
PuppyPro would make a great LanPuppy for an office full of diskless PCs.
When the PCs don't have any drives in them the cost & maintenance rate go down.
And diskless PC users can still use USB flash drives for loading & saving personal data.
Thats where I'm dreaming of.... I still remember when I worked with Digital VAX, IBM S36, Silicon Graphics and all that kind of systems.... 200 till 300 terminals where no problem for just one system manager who was also the company accountant.sunburnt wrote: PuppyPro would make a great LanPuppy for an office full of diskless PCs.
When the PCs don't have any drives in them the cost & maintenance rate go down.
And diskless PC users can still use USB flash drives for loading & saving personal data.
Everything gets wrong when the users needed PC systems with Microsoft Software.... this needed to be connected to these mini systems.... a nightmare, at that moment the 200 - 300 employees become part-time system managers and everyone had his voice in what software has to be used..... decentralization was the key issue. The information wasn't anymore in hands of the company owners, no they has to ask very friendly to his employees to be so kind to share the information on his 'private PC'. After implementing PC's the business managers lose control and try hard to create controllable networks..... till now they failed and lose their fight against the PC user.
Puppy Prof workstations connected to a server with webbased company critical applications would make history becomes future.
I'm currently testing a file-, print-, web-, mail-, fax-, application- server based on Puppy, very nice created by one of my IT guy's.... Still some small problems in functionality because I want to have it fully plug and play without any technical interaction.
You are spot on, Hendrikus.
I worked in Sweden, for six months in 1990, in a company that deployed dumb terminals off its VAX... yes it was slow, even for those days, but without "each employee being a part-time system manager and everyone had his voice in what software has to be used" (I love that phrase, it is soooo true) we all did our work nicely.
I think my node was the slowest on the network, lol
Puppy has a definite niche in that situation.
Nicely described, hendrikus
Richard in (South) Australia
I worked in Sweden, for six months in 1990, in a company that deployed dumb terminals off its VAX... yes it was slow, even for those days, but without "each employee being a part-time system manager and everyone had his voice in what software has to be used" (I love that phrase, it is soooo true) we all did our work nicely.
I think my node was the slowest on the network, lol
Puppy has a definite niche in that situation.
Nicely described, hendrikus
Richard in (South) Australia
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
Checksum failed on the first listed server sighted at that link.MU wrote:thanks, we have mirrored it already, see:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... ght=#68676
Mark
Trying the other download. Let you know how it goes.
Wondering if you have an answer for my second point in the post you responded to?
I might add I have done a general google search and it looks like even the ones for Windows have all been pulled.Been looking everywhere for the XP themes and apart from the basic one that comes with v2 (JWM) I can't find the wallpaper shown at here nor the theme it supposedly goes with.
I wonder if the Redmond people have claimed it infringes summat?
That was why I made the second statement in that quote above.
Richard in (South) Australia
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
I'm not shure which picture you mean.
Please right-click the picture -> copy image
Then in your next reply: edit -> paste
Then such a URL should be pasted:
http://rhinoweb.us/RhinoEnlightenedss2.jpg
Do you mean this picture?
It uses the Enlightenment-desktop:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6420
But the background-picture must be from somewhere else, I did not add that to Enlightenment.
The page there shows beside JWM some other WindowManagers (Desktops).
One with some Windows-like themes is available here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... icewmultra
You can see preview-pictures of many of the 50 included themes here:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/
Mark
Please right-click the picture -> copy image
Then in your next reply: edit -> paste
Then such a URL should be pasted:
http://rhinoweb.us/RhinoEnlightenedss2.jpg
Do you mean this picture?
It uses the Enlightenment-desktop:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6420
But the background-picture must be from somewhere else, I did not add that to Enlightenment.
The page there shows beside JWM some other WindowManagers (Desktops).
One with some Windows-like themes is available here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... icewmultra
You can see preview-pictures of many of the 50 included themes here:
http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/
Mark
This one, thanks, Mark...MU wrote:I'm not shure which picture you mean.
Please right-click the picture -> copy image
Then in your next reply: edit -> paste
Lobster, I have used a WINE GUI like that, I think on PC-BSD (a port of FreeBSD) - and it rocks
But all said and done, if Crossover Office would run in Puppy, I think I would opt to buy it, if I could also use it on any other Linuxes I was trying out.
I really would like to settle on Puppy, it has so much more of what I need to use, packaged in a more useable way, and it's speed is terrific.
Mark, I downloaded the ISO again, this time from the second of the two mirrors. It was 20 Mb larger and the checksum matched. I burned it and it runs, with two noticeable problems.
1. It is appreciably slower, which you would expect, with all the extra stuff in it.
2. There is something corrupted prior to the ISO creation as I get a message regardless of what theme saying I can't alter the taskbar height for that reason.
Each download of Puppy 2 I have tried does that if you change to the XP theme, and the solution is to go back to the default theme, change the taskbar height, and then reapply the theme.
Not so with the Pro version, it is stuck at corrupted.
So, I'm going to do some customisation of my own and submit it for comments.
Thanks for the download, anyway.
I do have the succesful downloads I've made; they are available at http://micro-hard.homelinux.net/puppy/download_iso/ short-term (I haven't tried the Qemu VM yet) just for my own convenience, if I'm visiting friends' homes, because of my "fat pipe" back to my ISP
Richard in South Australia
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
that's an Icewm theme, i think ... i made an XP theme or 2, and AlienX made a few XP themes, and there may have been XP themes made by others
i seem to remember making an XP theme in which i took the best from other themes, and modified them slightly ... that pic looks like it might be the 1in1-xp theme, with the menu from xp-new ... i'm not sure about the wallpaper
some of my dotpup packages were hosted on the goosee.com server and were lost when Puppy moved to puppylinux.com
the original themes and wallpapers were on http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/ and http://www.kde-look.org/ and http://www.gnome-look.org/ ... and other websites
i seem to remember making an XP theme in which i took the best from other themes, and modified them slightly ... that pic looks like it might be the 1in1-xp theme, with the menu from xp-new ... i'm not sure about the wallpaper
some of my dotpup packages were hosted on the goosee.com server and were lost when Puppy moved to puppylinux.com
the original themes and wallpapers were on http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/925/ and http://www.kde-look.org/ and http://www.gnome-look.org/ ... and other websites
that wallpaper might be from AlienX's Elberg.and.SilverXP.Themes.pup ... or not, i don't really know
see: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68486#68486
see: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68486#68486
It is the theme "Puppy-XP" for Icewm.
Icewm-Ultra includes it.
The background-picture is in /root/.icewm/themes/puppy-xp, to select it with Puppys Backgroundsetter there is this small problem:
/root/.icewm is a "hidden" folder.
1.) copy it with Rox to /usr/share/backgrounds.
To see this folder in Rox, click on the menu-icon "show hidden" in Rox.
2.) or in the Backgroundsetter, click on the "folder" to open the filedialog.
Enter a dot "." and hit the [tab] -key, to make hidden folders visible.
This is the general way to show hidden folders in Gtk based filedialogs.
3.) or create a symbolic link, to "overjump" the hidden folder:
ln -s /root/.icewm/themes/ /root/ice-themes
If you don't want to install icewm-ultra, but one of GuestToos Icewm-dotpups, look here for theme-dotpups without icewm itself:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=2223
Here are some Vista-themes I like:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10641
I think Puppy-XP is in this very old 3 MB dotpup, too, but am not shure:
http://noforum.de/dotpups/icewm-themecollection.pup
I like most themes in this dotpup less than the newer ones from Icewm-Ultra.
At moment, icewm-Ultra has the best theme-collection imho.
Largest, and some themes were slightly modified.
You might be able, to upgrade to newer versions of Icewm by installing GuestToos newer Icewm-Dotpup over it, but I did not tried that yet myself, as 1.2.26 works fine for me.
Here is his latest version 1.2.28:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4660
Mark
Icewm-Ultra includes it.
The background-picture is in /root/.icewm/themes/puppy-xp, to select it with Puppys Backgroundsetter there is this small problem:
/root/.icewm is a "hidden" folder.
1.) copy it with Rox to /usr/share/backgrounds.
To see this folder in Rox, click on the menu-icon "show hidden" in Rox.
2.) or in the Backgroundsetter, click on the "folder" to open the filedialog.
Enter a dot "." and hit the [tab] -key, to make hidden folders visible.
This is the general way to show hidden folders in Gtk based filedialogs.
3.) or create a symbolic link, to "overjump" the hidden folder:
ln -s /root/.icewm/themes/ /root/ice-themes
If you don't want to install icewm-ultra, but one of GuestToos Icewm-dotpups, look here for theme-dotpups without icewm itself:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=2223
Here are some Vista-themes I like:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=10641
I think Puppy-XP is in this very old 3 MB dotpup, too, but am not shure:
http://noforum.de/dotpups/icewm-themecollection.pup
I like most themes in this dotpup less than the newer ones from Icewm-Ultra.
At moment, icewm-Ultra has the best theme-collection imho.
Largest, and some themes were slightly modified.
You might be able, to upgrade to newer versions of Icewm by installing GuestToos newer Icewm-Dotpup over it, but I did not tried that yet myself, as 1.2.26 works fine for me.
Here is his latest version 1.2.28:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4660
Mark
Thanks guys.
We may be at cross purposes here, though, I was specifically after that wallpaper (background) as I'm trying to see what I can do with JWM (Joe's Window Manager) which as someone earlier said is a bit light on with hints, tips, and general description.
Thanks anyway for all those links, much appreciated.
If anyone has that background and would like to let me have a copy, I would be eternally grateful, thanks Would it be too much to make it available as a download? I'm assuming there is no copyright, which I suspect there might be with the 'bliss.jpg'
I think it's nicer than the 'bliss' which comes with FreeBSD, and would augment the psuedo XP look and feel of XP I'm trying to create to encourage XP users to try.
BTW I discovered that the PuppyPro I downloaded (couple of posts up), although the taskbar adjustments are marked as corrupted and therefore unchangeable through the GUI, changing height="25" (or whatever it was) to height="35" in the .jwmrc file works a treat.
Likewise "mini-dog" to "mini-penguin" (and vice versa) and <Clock> to <Clock Format="%H:#M"> as well. So it appears the corruption is in the GUI side rather than the actual settings.
I'm also wondering if it is feasible to do two further things with JWM...
1. Cascade the menu more than one nested level. So far I've not had any success, but I suspect I may have made mistakes with tags, etc. Perhaps I should start with an "empty" menu apart from the ability to reload the JWM
2. And if it is possible to create a menu system that is a bright white on a black background (with a thin white outline perhaps).
I suspect that the simplicity of JWM would preclude the ability to do that.
Appreciate your thoughts; they may save me considerable time going down roads others have already found are dead-ends.
Richard in South Australia
PS , FYI the forum
We may be at cross purposes here, though, I was specifically after that wallpaper (background) as I'm trying to see what I can do with JWM (Joe's Window Manager) which as someone earlier said is a bit light on with hints, tips, and general description.
Thanks anyway for all those links, much appreciated.
If anyone has that background and would like to let me have a copy, I would be eternally grateful, thanks
Would it be too much to make it available as a download? I'm assuming there is no copyright, which I suspect there might be with the 'bliss.jpg'I think it's nicer than the 'bliss' which comes with FreeBSD, and would augment the psuedo XP look and feel of XP I'm trying to create to encourage XP users to try.
BTW I discovered that the PuppyPro I downloaded (couple of posts up), although the taskbar adjustments are marked as corrupted and therefore unchangeable through the GUI, changing height="25" (or whatever it was) to height="35" in the .jwmrc file works a treat.
Likewise "mini-dog" to "mini-penguin" (and vice versa) and <Clock> to <Clock Format="%H:#M"> as well. So it appears the corruption is in the GUI side rather than the actual settings.
I'm also wondering if it is feasible to do two further things with JWM...
1. Cascade the menu more than one nested level. So far I've not had any success, but I suspect I may have made mistakes with tags, etc. Perhaps I should start with an "empty" menu apart from the ability to reload the JWM
2. And if it is possible to create a menu system that is a bright white on a black background (with a thin white outline perhaps).
I suspect that the simplicity of JWM would preclude the ability to do that.
Appreciate your thoughts; they may save me considerable time going down roads others have already found are dead-ends.
Richard in South Australia
PS , FYI the forum
is still persisting. I notice it almost every time I log on, in both going to a thread, and in updating a post I'm writing.phpBB : Critical Error
Could not connect to the database
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
you can unzip MU's UltraIcewm package to get the wallpaper ... or just install the package
anyway, i uploaded the wallpaper file here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11178
i will delete that post after you download it
anyway, i uploaded the wallpaper file here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11178
i will delete that post after you download it
richard,
I noticed a regular on the forums, gliezl, has always been interested and working on duplicating the XP desktop look. Currently gliezl has her own special Puppy called XPuppy Pro with a download link. Here is the forum link:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68678#68678
Whether gliezl can give you any additional information/assistance will require you pm her.
Paul M
I noticed a regular on the forums, gliezl, has always been interested and working on duplicating the XP desktop look. Currently gliezl has her own special Puppy called XPuppy Pro with a download link. Here is the forum link:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68678#68678
Whether gliezl can give you any additional information/assistance will require you pm her.
Paul M
I have it now, thanks for putting it up. Looks really great. Do you need to delete it? Maybe there are others who would like it?GuestToo wrote:you can unzip MU's UltraIcewm package to get the wallpaper ... or just install the package
anyway, i uploaded the wallpaper file here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11178
i will delete that post after you download it
Thankyou anyway, my friend, much appreciated
Thankyou for that too. I have looked and am downloading the ISO right now. Will talk with her later, I think she is in my timezone, sort ofkrumpli wrote:richard,
I noticed a regular on the forums, gliezl, has always been interested and working on duplicating the XP desktop look. Currently gliezl has her own special Puppy called XPuppy Pro with a download link. Here is the forum link:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68678#68678
Whether gliezl can give you any additional information/assistance will require you pm her.
Paul M
<Edit>
Downloaded it and ran it quite a bit. It is a very yummy version, I must say, and with a tiny bit more sprucing up would really help Windows users get used to Linux (imho).
A couple of points, but will talk with gliezl about them, and maybe with more than one on the job, it can be really perfected.
Way to go for those wanting choice
</Edit>
Appreciate all your input guys
Richard in (South) Australia
eagle`s on irc.undernet.org since 1998
Last edited by richard.a on Wed 20 Sep 2006, 02:16, edited 1 time in total.
[i]Have you noticed editing is always needed for the inevitable typos that weren't there when you hit the "post" button?[/i]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
[img]http://micro-hard.dreamhosters.com/416434.png[/img]
Hi Richard,
Thanks for testing out the Puppy Professional iso!
1) That is one of my major concerns. I have noticed on low RAM machines, that it will run OK, but the CD is always required and therefore if you have only one CD tray you can't mount other CD/DVD media
What are your machine specs just for a reference?
2) Are you using JWM themes or did you add IceWM? I did read that you figured out how to change tray and menu properties by editing .jwmrc and .jwmtray
Do the new icons in the menu and on the screen render clearly enough on your machine compared to other Puppies?
Don't forget to try out the switching between JWM and XFCE4 from the menu. I have found one machine that refuses to render the XFCE4 tray for some reason (I didn't kill it from the commandline) so I'm not really sure.
Thanks again!!
Thanks for testing out the Puppy Professional iso!
richard.a wrote:
1. It is appreciably slower, which you would expect, with all the extra stuff in it.
2. There is something corrupted prior to the ISO creation as I get a message regardless of what theme saying I can't alter the taskbar height for that reason.
1) That is one of my major concerns. I have noticed on low RAM machines, that it will run OK, but the CD is always required and therefore if you have only one CD tray you can't mount other CD/DVD media
What are your machine specs just for a reference?
2) Are you using JWM themes or did you add IceWM? I did read that you figured out how to change tray and menu properties by editing .jwmrc and .jwmtray
Do the new icons in the menu and on the screen render clearly enough on your machine compared to other Puppies?
Don't forget to try out the switching between JWM and XFCE4 from the menu. I have found one machine that refuses to render the XFCE4 tray for some reason (I didn't kill it from the commandline) so I'm not really sure.
Thanks again!!
Visit the Puppy Linux Video Tutorials @ http://rhinoweb.us