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Puppy Professional just for business
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 17:34    Post subject:  

Thanks guys.

We may be at cross purposes here, though, I was specifically after that wallpaper (background) as I'm trying to see what I can do with JWM (Joe's Window Manager) which as someone earlier said is a bit light on with hints, tips, and general description.

Thanks anyway for all those links, much appreciated.


If anyone has that background and would like to let me have a copy, I would be eternally grateful, thanks Smile Would it be too much to make it available as a download? I'm assuming there is no copyright, which I suspect there might be with the 'bliss.jpg'

I think it's nicer than the 'bliss' which comes with FreeBSD, and would augment the psuedo XP look and feel of XP I'm trying to create to encourage XP users to try.


BTW I discovered that the PuppyPro I downloaded (couple of posts up), although the taskbar adjustments are marked as corrupted and therefore unchangeable through the GUI, changing height="25" (or whatever it was) to height="35" in the .jwmrc file works a treat.

Likewise "mini-dog" to "mini-penguin" (and vice versa) and <Clock> to <Clock Format="%H:#M"> as well. So it appears the corruption is in the GUI side rather than the actual settings.


I'm also wondering if it is feasible to do two further things with JWM...

1. Cascade the menu more than one nested level. So far I've not had any success, but I suspect I may have made mistakes with tags, etc. Perhaps I should start with an "empty" menu apart from the ability to reload the JWM Smile

2. And if it is possible to create a menu system that is a bright white on a black background (with a thin white outline perhaps).

I suspect that the simplicity of JWM would preclude the ability to do that.


Appreciate your thoughts; they may save me considerable time going down roads others have already found are dead-ends.


Richard in South Australia


PS , FYI the forum
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is still persisting. I notice it almost every time I log on, in both going to a thread, and in updating a post I'm writing.

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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 17:52    Post subject:  

you can unzip MU's UltraIcewm package to get the wallpaper ... or just install the package

anyway, i uploaded the wallpaper file here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11178

i will delete that post after you download it
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krumpli

Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Florida USA

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 17:53    Post subject:  

richard,

I noticed a regular on the forums, gliezl, has always been interested and working on duplicating the XP desktop look. Currently gliezl has her own special Puppy called XPuppy Pro with a download link. Here is the forum link:

http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68678#68678

Whether gliezl can give you any additional information/assistance will require you pm her.

Paul M
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 18:14    Post subject:  

GuestToo wrote:
you can unzip MU's UltraIcewm package to get the wallpaper ... or just install the package

anyway, i uploaded the wallpaper file here:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=11178

i will delete that post after you download it

I have it now, thanks for putting it up. Looks really great. Do you need to delete it? Maybe there are others who would like it?

Thankyou anyway, my friend, much appreciated Smile

krumpli wrote:
richard,

I noticed a regular on the forums, gliezl, has always been interested and working on duplicating the XP desktop look. Currently gliezl has her own special Puppy called XPuppy Pro with a download link. Here is the forum link:

http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=68678#68678

Whether gliezl can give you any additional information/assistance will require you pm her.

Paul M

Thankyou for that too. I have looked and am downloading the ISO right now. Will talk with her later, I think she is in my timezone, sort of Smile


<Edit>
Downloaded it and ran it quite a bit. It is a very yummy version, I must say, and with a tiny bit more sprucing up would really help Windows users get used to Linux (imho).

A couple of points, but will talk with gliezl about them, and maybe with more than one on the job, it can be really perfected.

Way to go for those wanting choice Very Happy
</Edit>



Appreciate all your input guys Smile


Richard in (South) Australia
eagle`s on irc.undernet.org since 1998

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Last edited by richard.a on Tue 19 Sep 2006, 22:16; edited 1 time in total
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Rhino


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2006, 22:01    Post subject:  

Hi Richard,

Thanks for testing out the Puppy Professional iso!

richard.a wrote:


1. It is appreciably slower, which you would expect, with all the extra stuff in it.


2. There is something corrupted prior to the ISO creation as I get a message regardless of what theme saying I can't alter the taskbar height for that reason.




1) That is one of my major concerns. I have noticed on low RAM machines, that it will run OK, but the CD is always required and therefore if you have only one CD tray you can't mount other CD/DVD media Confused

What are your machine specs just for a reference?


2) Are you using JWM themes or did you add IceWM? I did read that you figured out how to change tray and menu properties by editing .jwmrc and .jwmtray Smile

Do the new icons in the menu and on the screen render clearly enough on your machine compared to other Puppies?


Don't forget to try out the switching between JWM and XFCE4 from the menu. I have found one machine that refuses to render the XFCE4 tray for some reason (I didn't kill it from the commandline) so I'm not really sure.

Thanks again!!

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep 2006, 04:13    Post subject:  

Rhino wrote:
1) That is one of my major concerns. I have noticed on low RAM machines, that it will run OK, but the CD is always required and therefore if you have only one CD tray you can't mount other CD/DVD media Confused

I've tried out-of-the-box Puppy 2.02 on a range of machines, all using the standard Lenovo built IBM Aptiva cases but with varying "innards" and even the basic 300MHz Celeron powered pre-Aptiva I use as a file server runs well on it with only 128Mb of RAM. I'll explore other machines for your distro, and have no fears of its being unable to perform.

I mentioned in another thread that I have a Pentium 100 with 64Mb of RAM and no HDD room for a pup_save file - so I ran basic puppy very nicely with a 135Mb Syquest removable cartridge from the early 1990s configured for that purpose. It'll be an interesting exercise to try yours, and I'm sure it will work well, even if a bit slowly.

Quote:
What are your machine specs just for a reference?

The particular one was built by a close friend who builds for a living. It has an MSI mobo with a Duron 1300 processor, 512 Mb of DDR RAM and I've equipped it with a DVD recording drive, a CD player (both LG) and two trays of plugin HDD racks.

Quote:
2) Are you using JWM themes or did you add IceWM? I did read that you figured out how to change tray and menu properties by editing .jwmrc and .jwmtray Smile

Straight JWM. I like the manager Smile It seems light on resource needs.

I've used IceWM on other distros and wasn't really enthused with it, but haven't customised it to work better for my style.

Quote:
Do the new icons in the menu and on the screen render clearly enough on your machine compared to other Puppies?

Yes indeed. I like them better than the standard Puppy, and some are better imho that the other pro version that other thread mentioned.

I'm a bit concerned on the copyright risks with the other one because of how similar they are to Microsoft's, and having been involved with what was Lindows through the period of those hatefully staged court actions against them out of Redmond.

Quote:
Don't forget to try out the switching between JWM and XFCE4 from the menu. I have found one machine that refuses to render the XFCE4 tray for some reason (I didn't kill it from the commandline) so I'm not really sure.

That was interesting, actually. It allowed me to switch with an extremely low resolution everything! Perhaps 640x480 -

Eventually I killed it by right clicking on the desktop and getting to the restart JWM menu "button" Smile Ctrl+Alt+Bkspce of course worked.

While everything worked, I did try to pick the Vesa wizard but that made it worse, sticking at perhaps 320x200 - a very early DOS resolution - because I couldn't scroll down and to the right enough to get to the 1024x768x16bit select buttons Smile It then saved it automatically through the reboot.

I'll try it on a P3-550 HP Pavilion but that refused to run the standard puppy, and I can't remember why. The Pavilion is my only computer that does not have a removeable boot HDD in a plugin rack, because there are no front panel locations to mount the cradle Smile

I'll also try it on a genuine Aptiva with an AMD K6-2 500 processor and see how that goes, and then I have a pair of them with Celeron 770s, one genuine IBM, the other has the mobo from a Compaq Presario.

And my fastest machine is what looks like an Aptiva with an MSI 64-bit mobo powered by a Sempron Smile

I'll get back in touch my friend and give you a report.

Take it easy, as we say here Smile


Richard in South Australia.

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Rhino


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep 2006, 18:54    Post subject:  

Richard.a,
Thank you very much for your help. I have had the same problem with the screen resolution. Any ideas how to make it go to at least a default of 800x600? That is a shame that XFCE4 did not work well for you...it is a very nice change of pace compared to JWM (I really do like JWM for its simplicity though)

Let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks again,

Rhino Very Happy

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 01:32    Post subject:  

Migrating to Linux - free book from IBM
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5790800597.html

By modifying the HTML and making it the offline start page
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/CommunityEdition
you will have a quick loading start page that works from dillo to firefox

If you modify the page add it back to the wiki
it is between
Code:
"" ""

two double quotes

There seems to be a lot of interest in the Professional Puppy Smile

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sheepdog

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 09:22    Post subject:  

Hi just stumbled across the discussion on my quest to find an alternative to an xp/vista os. I and many of the other 50 million still running OS2/98/me home/business users detest the illogical themes/menu layout etc etc of WinXP and much prefer the no nonsense far more productive Win9x format.( I can post links to the forums/websites to substanciate this if required but have not, to respect the users in this forum)
Please do not ONLY follow along the xp themes when with a little tinkering here and there and a great linux based distro as puppy is, its user base could increase expodentially. I have to repair customers xp pcs on a daily basis and seeing its themes in a puppy distro made me cringe.
I think with the upcoming release of vista (just as much disliked, MS stopping support for OS`s <=2k) the puppy community could have a mass influx of home and business users if a little familiarity were available. I am in the I.T industry and it is surprising how many companies and individuals are still using win 9x/2k because of the layout/cost/security issues with XP and are looking for an alternative.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 10:43    Post subject:  

We are going over to a system introduced in Puppy 1.09ce called XDG menus. This allows the menuing to be the same over different Window managers (that is similar to a skin in MS Windows)

I must admit I never found any logical improvement between SE and XP menuing in Windows and tend to change XP to resemble Win98E.

Your comments are therefore noted.

One huge and simple improvement that I have mentioned many times is to get rid of the geeky names. Every component in the Puppy menu is named. 'Paint program' people know - 'MtPaint image editor' - you do not need 'MtPaint'. Those are simple examples - look at some of the other names . . . now just think if Puppy is fulfilling its 'no-brainer' mission statement?

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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 11:03    Post subject:  

i turn off most of the eye candy in XP too

Win 9x leaves a lot to be desired in terms of stabilty and efficiency and security

Puppy (and other Linux distros, and XP/2000/Vista) idle the cpu when it is not doing work ... right now, my load average is 0.02, so 98% of the time, my cpu is just idling, which uses less power and keeps the cpu cooler

Win 9x have 3 resources stacks ... for example, every window you open uses more space in resources ... but the thing is, they made the stacks very very small, 64k each, and there is no way to make them larger, no matter how much memory you have ... and the whole operating system will crash suddenly and without warning if too much space is used in these stacks ... Puppy, Linux (and XP/2000/Vista) do not have this problem

so you might question whether Puppy is better than XP, or as good as XP ... but there is no question that Puppy is a significant improvement over Win 9x
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sheepdog

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 13:45    Post subject:  

I must admit I have never had any trouble with the resource limits in all the years I have run the os, but then again all systems were of the embedded type and cleared of all bloat, unneeded dlls etc. 1 was a bot on irc for a room and ran months without reset and another my tv when the proper one packed up. again alot of the time i ran my own applications that behaved properly with the resources at program end.A lot of the bloat cut out seems to help with stability and this is what I see with your puppy distros.
By the way i ran a hlt vxd to issue idle instructions
Thanks for the replies and hopefully I will get fond of puppy like I have 98 and the Amiga before that
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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Thu 21 Sep 2006, 19:11    Post subject:  

Sheepdog and Lobster, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Maybe the desire I have for creating an XP look-alike has been misinterpreted, please let me explain.

Mywife and her online friends are typical, I think, of many non-technical users, those of which have XP really do stumble and have great difficulty over a theme that isn't blue and yuck etc. Although the basic theme is quite restful on the eyes when one becomes used to it.

It appears the menu bar colour is generally less important than the overall desktop "look" from those non-technical people I've talked to.

Now, the only XP I have ever had access to, is my wife's laptop, running XP Home, bought a few months ago.

Within 24 hours, because she was used to 2000, and before it, Me, and 98, we reverted it to the "traditional" looking desktop. It did not, though, fix the rather strange way XP has of accessing the computer's contents, but I left it at that because she mainly uses shortcuts on the desktop.

So I figured that many, even perhaps the majority of Windows users, would probably/possibily fit this category.

Personally I edit the so-called "Start" Menu for just about everything for my personal use, putting clusters of similar programs - word processors, graphics, browsers, etc in a similar way to most Linux's, although I dislike the time wasting push to put them several levels down a cascading menu like MS does.

Sorting alphabetically goes a long way towards productivity too. And yes, eliminate the geek names from a machine being used by your average user.

Turn your head through 90degrees and you can see what I mean Very Happy Smile


Making use ol the quick start part of the taskbar for really regular apps is important, and think Win2000 was probably the best MS OS for that ability.

I use Win2000 for several IRC bots and my own chat client as a psuedo bot. Yes it works quite well, and is more stable than 98, although I have played with Shane Brooks' 98Lite which was renamed by him when her return to Australia. It may be called PC-Lite now (I think).

I have run Apache 1.3.xx on Win 2000 with a number of vhosts for about 3 years without (surprisingly) any compromises to date; I suspect creating a differnt directory structure to IIS and regular apache has helped incoming nasty scripts ending up in dev>nul.

So that explains the perspective I have, and why... and why I believe in Puppy being the solution to human interfacing - with the proviso that the users need to feel comfortable using it, and the first step towards that needs to be familiarity... even just the basic "bliss" (or something really closely similar) goes an huge step towards that, imho.

I may be old, senile, and garulous. But I believe I'm right lolol !!!! I spent some years towards the end of my working life, teaching old-time drawing board users in their 50s - with little in the way of technical aptitude with computers - to become CAD operators, through 1:1 interfacing with them, and through articles written using their language in a great CAD magazine which ceased print unfortunately.

I believe in this product. And I believe that this thread is very important to the future of not just Puppy but computing, because I believe (like many do) that the diverse pricing structure and missing new features of Vista (when eventually released) makes for an ideal push by alternative OS's.

There is a mnemonic known as KISS in many circles, both technical and otherwise...

Keep It Simple, Stupid

In nicer language, Keep It Simple, Silly

and in Christian circles, because of the tendency of us humans to clutter and complicate things... Keep It Simple, Saint

So let's all get behind this opportunity window created for our benefit, folks. Does all that stuff I wrote make sense? I'll crawl back under the nearest large rock if I'm way off beam Very Happy

Richard in South Australia

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sheepdog

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep 2006, 17:11    Post subject:  

"I believe in this product. And I believe that this thread is very important to the future of not just Puppy but computing, because I believe (like many do) that the diverse pricing structure and missing new features of Vista (when eventually released) makes for an ideal push by alternative OS's."

Makes sense to me Richard, and with the evolution of drm/kernel mode security (I wonder who will be spying on us with/without ms permisson in the future) and an alledged virgin net stack a nice open source alternative becomes more necessary everyday.
Love the skins idea, easy software install and the lua distro.With bluetooth support I think you will have nailed it
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep 2006, 06:38    Post subject:  



Created a logo and wiki page

(nothing there but the logo - need someone to add the main points from this thread)

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyXP

Smile

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