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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
DEVUAN Jessie Puppy?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 555
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 10:13    Post subject: devuan puduan  

There is this one:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109842 from Sailor
and another one from Musher0 I 've enjoyed a lot using it for a while:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107913
It's probably at least partly in french, but who cares, it is 'different' .
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12691
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 00:43    Post subject:  

Thanks for the pat on the shoulder, foxpup! Smile
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Last edited by musher0 on Wed 20 Jun 2018, 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 555
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 06:17    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Thanks for the tap on the shoulder, foxpup! Smile
You're welcome musher0. I really liked your builds in your personal style, like this one too:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109904 your french Stretch. It is debian, not devuan?

There is also this thread:'Woof CE Debian Stretch and Devuan Ascii Based Development'
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109789
Did this produce any devuan stretch? And where are the iso's to be found then?
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 10:20    Post subject:  

nosystemdthanks wrote:
...while i dont agree entirely with anikin, turning debian into something free of systemd is unlikely to ever happen.
As a matter of fact, that's happenned already.
Quote:
devuan is getting farther from its goal, not closer...
The goal of Devuan was and still is very simple - to keep the traditional sysVinit and not use the new systemd init. Devuan hasn't moved a millimeter away from that orginal goal. It's all about init!
Quote:
.. debian just keeps breaking stuff for the sake of breaking it. they dont call it that, but thats exactly what theyre doing-- breaking stuff for the sake of breaking it...
... but devuan is a mess, and they are importing problems faster than theyre creating solutions...
These are absolutely baseless and insulting claims. Debian is rock solid. It doesn't break. Devuan isn't a mess - it's tightly and professionally run operation.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12691
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun 2018, 11:25    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
musher0 wrote:
Thanks for the tap on the shoulder, foxpup! Smile
You're welcome musher0. I really liked your builds in your personal style, like this one too:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109904 your french Stretch. It is debian, not devuan?

There is also this thread:'Woof CE Debian Stretch and Devuan Ascii Based Development'
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=109789
Did this produce any devuan stretch? And where are the iso's to be found then?

Thanks for asking, foxpup.

My Pups all are at augras' repository.

There are some other resources there as well, including a few now
difficult to find java apps, the mawk implementation of awk, the agena
language files, and some compilations of music files readers (opus, etc.).

All free downloads! Smile

I may be wrong, but I think there is no such thing as a "Devuan Stretch".

The DPupStetch-7.0 that I have at augras' repo is based on Debian. The
others are easily recognizable: my xenialPup-7.0.6 is of course based on
Ubuntu packages, and the Puduan-6 is, as you already know, based on
Devuan packages. When I say "are based", I mean that I have built them
with the help of the corresponding Woof-CE scripts.

BFN.

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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2018, 23:48    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
As a matter of fact, that's happenned already.


sure, if you stop checking for systemd at pid 2. devuan 2.0 has more of it than devuan 1.0.

Quote:
The goal of Devuan was and still is very simple - to keep the traditional sysVinit


wrong. sysvinit isnt a requirement. that happens to be what it uses right now. unless theyve recently changed and decided its going to be sysvinit officially.

Quote:
not use the new systemd init.


that is a primary goal, they have other goals.

it is fairly trivial to run debian without systemd as pid 1 and devuan does exist to accomplish more than that. the init is only part of it.

Quote:
Devuan hasn't moved a millimeter away from that orginal goal. It's all about init!


no, its not. and if you look at the things they consider bugs and the things they considered bugs, and try to fix-- its about far more than that.

but they are indeed backpedalling about whats acceptable. im sure the changes in what they say have no bearing on what you think their goals are, but what you think their goals are has nothing to do with what theyve said in mailing lists and irc for the past 3 years.

Quote:
These are absolutely baseless and insulting claims. Debian is rock solid. It doesn't break.


oh, sorry, debian 8 couldnt mount a vfat usb after installation without a reboot, even when the module was loaded, rmmod, modprobed. i thought it was windows! but thats just one example of the huge compromise in quality and reliability between debian 7 and 8.

debian was rock solid, but why would you need to REBOOT to get something as basic as the already-loaded vfat filesystem module to work? thats not even debian, but thats what they did to it. before 8, i considered debian probably the best operating system in the world. but it isnt now.

so by "baseless" you mean you dont agree, thats fine, whatever.

Quote:
Devuan isn't a mess - it's tightly and professionally run operation.


they should pay you, or you should run for office.

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun 2018, 03:48    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
nosystemdthanks wrote:
...while i dont agree entirely with anikin, turning debian into something free of systemd is unlikely to ever happen.
As a matter of fact, that's happenned already.
Quote:
devuan is getting farther from its goal, not closer...
The goal of Devuan was and still is very simple - to keep the traditional sysVinit and not use the new systemd init. Devuan hasn't moved a millimeter away from that orginal goal. It's all about init!
Quote:
.. debian just keeps breaking stuff for the sake of breaking it. they dont call it that, but thats exactly what theyre doing-- breaking stuff for the sake of breaking it...
... but devuan is a mess, and they are importing problems faster than theyre creating solutions...
These are absolutely baseless and insulting claims. Debian is rock solid. It doesn't break. Devuan isn't a mess - it's tightly and professionally run operation.


There numerous problems with Debian Stretch that have been posted including bas xorg bugs and they have infected Devuan as well so sorry Anikin I have to disagree with you and the really bad thing is especially the xorg stuff - it goes all the way back to Debian Sid when I was running LinuxBBQ (that was around 2015) and it was up to developers like Julius Hader (Machinebacon to come up with solutions. Have an update and your system is f--------------- up.

Systemd has infected and I mean infected more and more of Debian and made it an unstable mess. Debian Jessie was at least usuable.

It is sad because I loved Debian in the Wheezy days and Jessie was passable but Stretch - don't get me started.Sad
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun 2018, 08:01    Post subject:  

nosystemdthanks wrote:
...oh, sorry, debian 8 couldnt mount a vfat usb after installation without a reboot...
Are you serious? How about educating yourself a little bit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT_filesystem_and_Linux ... No insult is intended but I've never seen you in the threads where the nitty-gritty stuff is discussed. Why didn't you ask for help in one of the numerous DD threads?

darry19662018 wrote:
...I have to disagree with you and the really bad thing is especially the xorg stuff
Have a look here:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1591 and from that thread for those who are really curious, there's this link to a video https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5499_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291830_-_x_security_-_ilja_van_sprundel at around 14.00 I made a printscreen, the picture posted below. Actually it's an hour + video, but the most interesting stuff is at the beginning. The guy praises Debian devs for their response to bug alerts.

My experience with Devuan started with jessie and probably (not sure yet) will end there. It is the most eeepc friendly distro. I agree with you systemdd is spreading like a cancer. Can we control it? No.
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun 2018, 16:58    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
No insult is intended but I've never seen you in the threads where the nitty-gritty stuff is discussed. Why didn't you ask for help in one of the numerous DD threads?


i was busy assisting a customer (not mine) in a professional environment-- i had time to google the problem, i did not have time to "ask for help" and then get a reply later that day. i wasnt using debian 8, they were. i was using devuan at the time, and as far as i could tell, devuan didnt have this problem.

i still ask for help when i need it. as for "educating myself," im past the point where i generally need to open new threads to get assistance. its a rare thing, but its good sometimes.

but also rare are problems with vfat in debian-- i defy you to tell me what part of a wikipedia article explains why a reboot should ever be necessary to get an already-loaded kernel module working. its not like we are talking about fuse3g and ntfs, but something that t2 supported and the linux 2.x kernel as well.

besides, our disagreement is based on apples and oranges. you act as if its hopeless altogether, i said its hopeless in debian-- but its only a baseless thing to say when i say it, you still can.

i dont want to quibble quite that much, id rather just say "i disagree." and im not a dd, thats why i dont hang out in dd threads.

the idea that dds are barely removed from divinity is a notion that only dds and fanboys have-- to me theyre just ordinary people, and ordinary people are often idiots. somehow, treating them as wizards doesnt help this.

either way, i chose gnu/linux to get away from what microsoft is doing. if people are going to start using their playbook, im not going to just play along, not ever. i would sooner switch to bsd. it hasnt gotten to that point yet.

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darry19662018

Joined: 31 Mar 2018
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2018, 03:01    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
nosystemdthanks wrote:
...oh, sorry, debian 8 couldnt mount a vfat usb after installation without a reboot...
Are you serious? How about educating yourself a little bit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT_filesystem_and_Linux ... No insult is intended but I've never seen you in the threads where the nitty-gritty stuff is discussed. Why didn't you ask for help in one of the numerous DD threads?

darry19662018 wrote:
...I have to disagree with you and the really bad thing is especially the xorg stuff
Have a look here:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1591 and from that thread for those who are really curious, there's this link to a video https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5499_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291830_-_x_security_-_ilja_van_sprundel at around 14.00 I made a printscreen, the picture posted below. Actually it's an hour + video, but the most interesting stuff is at the beginning. The guy praises Debian devs for their response to bug alerts.

My experience with Devuan started with jessie and probably (not sure yet) will end there. It is the most eeepc friendly distro. I agree with you systemdd is spreading like a cancer. Can we control it? No.


Yes Xorg-legacy - like I said goes back to 2015 and was still a problem for a long time - my point is this if it existed Debian Sid then how or why did it get into the "stable" release. I expect it Debian Sid not to flow through to the "Stable" release.

Personally I run Puppy because I don't have to worry about updates f______ my system up. I update what needs to be updated such as wget or bash whenever there is a need.
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2018, 05:22    Post subject:  

@ nosystemdthanks
I post a short paragraph. In response, you throw at me a long-winded, pointless essay, that could have been titled: "It's me, myself and I."


@ darry19662018
I don't use full blown releases - Debian/Devuan/BBQ/etc. As an example, Devuan ascii (stretch) is an 1.0 GB ISO, jessie was 848 MB a bit smaller but still huge by my standards. Being a minimalist I do my own, very much Puppy like builds. Debootstrap a minbase, bare bones Debian system. Then in a chroot install only what's needed. Kernel, xorg, audio and so on. Also being no fan of Desktop Environments such as xfce, gnome, lxde, whatever, I only install jwm/rox, lxterminal, geany, palemoon. No bloat, no wallpapers, no overhead. The system runs from ram. It is pure Debian/Devuan - rock solid, no breaks, no problems.

Edit
Forgot to mention, that the build has only one user account - root. No sudo, no su. This does make it very much Puppy like.

Last edited by anikin on Mon 18 Jun 2018, 11:23; edited 1 time in total
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2018, 11:04    Post subject:  

Quote:
I post a short paragraph. In response, you throw at me a long-winded, pointless essay


you really cant tell your opinion from facts-- your "short paragraph" was long winded and bs. my "essay" was merely a retort of a short paragraph.

this forum is over a decade old, your concern about its capacity is obviously unfounded or dishonest-- please dont worry about it! petty ad hom isnt a real argument.

i get it though; assertions can be made in fewer words than refutation. which is partly why people are biased so heavily towards assertions, ad hom and circle-jerking. but do you really think those are better?

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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2018, 11:27    Post subject:  

@ nosystemdthanks
This is a total a waste of time and oxygen, I'm not interested in having any conversations with you
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun 2018, 13:13    Post subject:  

anikin wrote:
@ nosystemdthanks
This is a total a waste of time and oxygen, I'm not interested in having any conversations with you


dont worry, it was already obvious. i did comment on something you said, you were welcome to respond to what i was saying too, but you never really got around to actually doing that.

i was talking to someone else originally, despite citing you-- and im very happy to do that instead. cheers.

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hamoudoudou

Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1467
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun 2018, 01:30    Post subject: i don't need Devuan.  

i don't need Devuan.. But go on working a Devuan Puppy.. no problem about that.. same for Slitaz, corepup,,
Puppy has a Jessie version done by josejp2424,, the problem is that Jose Peralda is not US citizen but latino.. He is ignored.. But jessie is available with Puppy, that is a fact. Then to change repository to Devuan is not difficult because Devuan repository is the Debian one, only some acces had been shut. To shut is easy.
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