Vote: Do you use Linux EXCLUSIVELY?

[ahoppin]

I still use Windows 2000 for midi music, mostly because it's what I'm used to and it works. Also, the software's paid for. It's old enough that it doesn't phone home, or nag me to upgrade it.

I have Puppy Studio, Dream Studio, Avlinux, Artistx, and a couple of other multimedia distros. I've dabbled a bit with Rosegarden, but haven't taken the time to try to really learn to use it. Maybe someday.

I use Windows 98 on an old laptop as a printer server, mostly because my printers are ancient. They have Windows maintenance software that doesn't work under Wine. Puppy has no trouble printing through that server. Since it's not doing anything else, Win98 stays up for months at a time.

Those are the only two Windows machines I still use with any regularity.

I refused to buy Windows XP because of the EULA. I'm not going to agree to let Bill Gates "update" my OS for any reason he wants. I do however have XP on an aging Thinkpad that fell into my hands. I've used it a couple of times for software that I just couldn't run any other way. I guess its days are numbered though, now that XP is almost as moribund as Win2K.

Other than that, it's all Puppy around here. We have 3 machines running full installations of Lucid 5.2.5, one full Precise 5.7.1, a frugal Precise, a Wary 5.5, and a frugal Slacko 6.3.0.

It's all oldish hardware. The newest is from 2009, oldest around 2000. Don't need anything faster, don't want anything newer, won't let UEFI into the house.

I recently tried a couple of other non-systemd (allegedly) compact live distros, just to see if I was missing anything.

Antix Live ran pretty nicely from USB, but I didn't like the window managers. It's also kind of big for a supposedly compact distro, over 700mb.

Salix XFCE Live, also over 700mb, wouldn't boot on my primary machine, which isn't that old (2009). Oddly, it did boot on a couple of even older machines. But it felt alien. It's way more locked down than Puppy. It wouldn't let me log in as root.

When I was running as the default live user ('one') it demanded a password (which it didn't reveal) to download audio codecs. At that point I hit the off button and tossed the DVD-R in the trash. Life's too short.

So I'm still walking the Puppy.

One thing that gobsmacks me is that Slackware 14.1 is 2.3gb, and Slacko 6.3.0 is 208mb. How you compressed Slackware by more than 11:1 is beyond my ken, but it makes me happy. Thanks.

[Burn_IT]

By removing duplicate functions mostly - I think.

[nic007]

Have to say Wary Puppy is pretty good and solid. Still using Wary 5.3.90 which I suppose was a "beta" release of Wary 5.5. It's the only Puppy that works 100% on my 10 year old laptop and previous desktops. All the others I have used (well except for Puppy 412 which was also excellent) had some niggles, some more than others.

[Mike Walsh]

I mostly use Puppy Linux as my 'daily driver', but also have a copy of XP Pro hanging around for....well, you know; just in case, like..!

Much prefer using Puppy, but there's just one or two things which, even though I run them in Puppy under WINE, still seem to work just that wee bit better under the system they were designed for. (*sigh*)


Mike.

[Robert123]

Most of the time LinuxBBQ and other Debian based distros and sometimes Puppy and austrumi on my 32bit Irons.

Only occasionally do I use my Wife's Win7 machine.

[rokytnji]

Till Puppy or Linux does This.

I'll be keeping a Windows laptop for just that. No telling till that day comes when different motorcycle interfaces with different hardware configurations and gnu/linux will walk hand in hand. Right now. That is a Windows 10 laptop for only that job. It is a lock in, DRM, kind of thing.

All my other gear is Gnu/Linux fueled only however. So 99.99999999 percent of time. Till I tune a modern motorcycle with a plc driven ignition and fuel system. I am on gnu/linux. Puppy and others.

Tools are tools. One tool won't sub for another tools job. Being a mechanic. I know this for a fact. You cannot cut rebar with a screw driver.

[Mike Walsh]

Tools are tools. One tool won't sub for another tools job. Being a mechanic. I know this for a fact. You cannot cut rebar with a screw driver.

^^^ +1.

Couldn't have put it any better myself. There's no shame in using the right tool for the job; sometimes it's Windows, sometimes it's Linux. They both have their place.

But I know which is easier to fix!!


Mike.

[Pelo]

Total votes : 58
Not bad.
My vote should have been : i never use Linux, excepted Puppy.
When i discovered Puppy, it was a pure 'bonheur'. Like when your encounter the woman, the one for all your life . i began testing Linux with CD's joined to magazines. Windows XP was really too slow.
... and we were working with windows all day long at work. Puppy was more fun hobby, after dinner.

[norgo]

I'm exclusively using Puppy and other Linux(es)

SuSE Linux / openSUSE since 2003 , currently openSUSE 13.1 and 13.2
Puppy Linux since 2008 , currently Slacko 6.3.0

[learnhow2code]

last couple times i got a machine with windows, i dual booted with gnuinos or devuan and left windows on because my programming language is cross-platform. if i wanted to try it out in windows, i could.

for that reason ive booted to windows xp on a couple occasions in the past 365 days. at this point i have my own live iso to boot puppy OR devuan with my language included, i should just reclaim the windows partition on that thing.

i will not support windows 10 or later-- if someone wants support for 10 i can refer them to a windows expert, or try to remove it for them... those are the options.

i will still help people with windows 8 and earlier, though this is more likely to happen in person than online.

[TyroBGinner]

I have never understood the instinctive, organic, reflexive hatred for anything related to Microsoft that is seen here. Although not universal in this forum, it pertainly seems pervasive, at least among the more vocal users. It seems like this hatred is an end unto itself and carries some cachet. Microsoft has put out products both good and bad like any other company. Windows XP has worked well for me for quite a long time - it was a very good piece of work. Windows of one sort or another has support and software that can't be seen anywhere in the FOSS regime.

Windows XP is much better than Puppy Linux in a number of respects. It plays videos that puppy would choke on, it reads and displays directories far faster, and you can generally find software that is more polished, less quirky, and easier to use.

Current commercial distributions, whatever they are, are insular and excessively invasive. The potential for privacy violation is a concern. This is true for Windows, Apple, and Android.

Even so, they are of great utility and, if used cautiously and judiciously, can prove quite productive.

It is silly to see people still hating Bill Gates specifically - as if he is personally listening and watching through every computer camera that runs on a Microsoft product. I don't think he is even in the day-to-day operations anymore.

Apple receives little disparagement here, and their hardware costs a fortune! - twice the price of regular x86 gear. Let's spread the hate around.

And Android is disappointing as there is such differentiation among hardware. There is no equivalent of a device tree there.

Almost equivalent to the aversion to Microsoft seen in this forum is the infatuation with old machines. I am all for wringing the most out what you have - I use ancient computers myself - but I don't let it put me off newer kit. It is a mystery as to why some here make a point of pride in rejecting anything produced in this decade. We may not like some things that today's PCs have such as the trusted platform module or current firmware, but we have what we have - not too many 2005 vintage computers are going to handle 4K video very well - and if I need a Core i7 Skylake so I can gawk at Scarlett Johansson on my 70-inch 4K display, then that is what I am going to get.

As a previous message pointed out, use the right tool for the right job. Every problem has its own solution. Let the punishment fit the crime. Everything in its place, and leave things to the Sun and God.

Oh yeah, by the way, my use of Windows to Linux is in a ratio of about 3:1.

[learnhow2code]

I have never understood the instinctive, organic, reflexive hatred for anything related to Microsoft that is seen here. Although not universal in this forum, it pertainly seems pervasive, at least among the more vocal users. Microsoft has put out products both good and bad like any other company.

a good rule of thumb is that if youre going to question the hatred of microsoft in a forum full of intelligent and talented people-- > 90% of whom are using an alternative offering to microsofts, that you be prepared for a ton of answers as to WHY they hate it. (that offer is on the table, but so is the search feature on the forum, as well as your browser.)

calling something "reflexive" which is built up over more than a decade (or two) of abuse by a corporation is also a bit... well, absurd. but if you mean microsoft "triggers" people, well-- the abuse is certainly real. and deliberate. and calculated. (and all of that is documented.)

despite ALL of that, youre still welcome to use microsoft products. just dont dig too deeply into anyone for hating them. after all-- your freedom to like them is our freedom to dislike them intensely. you can try to imply its not healthy-- what microsoft is doing to people (even these days) is NO indication or cause of health.

personally i dont know how someone with access to the web can remain un-clued-in about the kinds of things microsoft has done to practically every user and still judge windows based purely on how it "feels" to use the software. theres much greater subjectivity in that evaluation than there is in a lot of the things people hate microsoft for. dont think you arent entitled to your opinion-- everyone is!

as for loving old machines-- why shouldnt people that love old machines have a place online? puppy has always served older machines well... not every version certainly (because newer stuff is more welcome here than it appears-- and the appearances are to keep things friendly to lovers of old things.)

some people like "big women" (hi) and older computers (hi) and even older women and loving those enthusiastically doesnt automatically mean hatred of newer equipment (though i prefer core i3, a20 and mipsel to i7) or slender women (i like both, and also tall or short.)

but people who like slender women and new machines are everywhere. puppy is unusually friendly to our type so you find a lot of us here. if thats a problem, where are we supposed to go? because this was an important place for us for many years now.

[TyroBGinner]

Wow, you type fast...that helps to explain the great volume of material you put here. I mean, it took me way more time than I should have expended to write my message above. It is cutting into my Scarlett Johansson time. But I digress...

I did not think that my message would be welcomed with open arms, but it seems that many here love to get a gratuitous dig in at Microsoft every time they draw a breath - as if it is obligatory. Curiously, it parallels the issue with the aversion to newer tech. They do seem to go hand-in-hand as if both are marks of distinction - as if they enhance one's status in the fraternity.

If Windows XP or 7 gets the job done well, then what is the problem? This has much to do with how it feels to use the OS, but the direct user experience is exactly that: direct. The practical value of the OS is very important - how well you work with it from moment to moment surely rings very loudly with the user. In that regard, XP does great with very old compters. 7 does well with newer ones.

I never said that old computers should be rejected - but anything before a Pentium 4 is truly obsolete. What I did say is that one should not reject the new because it is new.

The unifying idea here is as I stated above. Appreciate the pros and cons of all things. Every platform has plenty of both. To each situation the best approach.

[learnhow2code]

many here love to get a gratuitous dig in at Microsoft every time they draw a breath - as if it is obligatory.

that is-- im sorry to be dismissive-- your intepretation. first of all, theres nothing wrong with a dig at microsoft now and then-- or as much as we like. thats important to point out. we dont owe them any loyalty or anything at all.

digs at microsoft have gone on steadily (that is, every year) over the years, but the more people that are happy without them, the less of it you find. this place is very much a refuge (almost a refugee camp) for people that quit or are quitting windows, so you find more of it here. you find MUCH LESS of it than you used to, even here.

there are two reasons for people here to have fewer digs at microsoft: increased contentment with the alternatives, or being beaten down, or both. we are always getting "beaten down" with new hardware until/unless it is supported. we have more alternatives than ever, and that is a good reason to feel content. and if you are a regular here, leave for a few years and come back, you will notice a huge difference.

what youre saying is (i can honestly say) either exaggerated or invented-- not necessarily intentionally. you expect it, therefore you experience it. but i already apologized for being dismissive.

Curiously, it parallels the issue with the aversion to newer tech. They do seem to go hand-in-hand as if both are marks of distinction - as if they enhance one's status in the fraternity.

theres nothing wrong with that, either. its mildly elitist-- especially if you take it literally. but this is not a very elitist community, so a lot of the "elitism" you will find even in small amounts, is largely tongue-in-cheek. we are champions of the little guy here, even if we insist the little guy learn something.

microsoft also claims to champion the little guy. that is pure corporate nonsense. sometimes its nonsense on our part, but at least puppy is grassroots-- microsoft is astroturf.

now THAT was a dig, but its a serious comment. the term "astroturfing" refers to a fake (manufactured and corporate) campaign disguised as a grassroots one.

my comment about whether i support windows 10 or not is FAR FROM a casual dig-- it is a serious (but vague) comment on the ethics of windows 10. it was not said out of fun nor did i enjoy it.

i had more fun making fun of microsoft when they hadnt hijacked the bootloader of modern pcs.

oh, and-- yeah. the way hardware is going is so anti-user... but thats another topic. so in this sense at least, youre right about older vs. newer. but thats way more compex an issue than youre painting it. youre painting it as a simple aversion (some of us are actually guilty of that, but im not sure its anything like you say.)

its easy to dismiss your opponent by oversimplifying, as youve done (quite possibly) sincerely or insincerely (couldnt tell you) several times in two posts. ive gone far out of my way (all i can, perhaps not enough) to avoid returning the favor.

If Windows XP or 7 gets the job done well, then what is the problem?

that question is the problem-- it almost completely isolates the issue from the case that is being made against it. thats called "framing" by the way. and corporations spend a great deal of money to convince everyone that the way theyve framed issues is the way people think about issues: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-issue-framing.htm

debates are constantly framed and re-framed.

* an ad company makes the matter about ease of use
* a geek makes it about the ability to change things
* a user makes it about ease of use
* a geek makes it about freedom and ethics (free software)
* another geek re-frames it about cooperation with sponsors (open source)
* and on and on...

most of the time, the framers with the most money win. but not always.

This has much to do with how it feels to use the OS, but the direct user experience is exactly that: direct. The practical value of the OS is very important

there is practical value in not having your computers actions dictated by the companies you bought it from. and there are so many ways you can re-frame that truth, i am expecting several out of experience. but thats not necessarily what youre here for.

- how well you work with it from moment to moment surely rings very loudly with the user. In that regard, XP does great with very old compters. 7 does well with newer ones.

i will support windows 7 users, and xp was the best windows ever probably. this is not relevant to much of anything, except that not all versions of windows are equally awful.

I never said that old computers should be rejected - but anything before a Pentium 4 is truly obsolete.

to most people, including me mostly. i can still get a pii or piii to run, but one of the few reasons to bother is a parallel port is more common on those (most p4s have them too.)

What I did say is that one should not reject the new because it is new.

but this implies that people reject things "because they are new" and for no other reason-- it implies circular logic on the part of everyone involved.

im sure that for some people, the reasoning is circular. but there are actually great reasons to avoid new things-- not because "they are new" but for related (and substantial) reasons. in short youre oversimplifying, which as i said is a great (cheap) way to discredit your opponent.

The unifying idea here is as I stated above. Appreciate the pros and cons of all things.

ive got a better one-- i will appreciate things i appreciate, based on the pros and cons-- but that isnt anything new.

for example: there are pros and cons of punching me in the face, but dont expect me to appreciate it even if i can list the advantages-- it might make be a better fighter, it might increase my reflexes or common sense, it might make me more diplomatic or simply avoid nasty people better.

dont wait for a thank you if you try it-- unless its really justified, which in most cases, it isnt.

the same goes for microsoft.

Every platform has plenty of both. To each situation the best approach.

well every broad generalization deserves another, so:

microsoft is NEVER the solution and (due to marketshare) it is usually the problem.

i will tell you this, you are making it lots more fun to have a go at microsoft. your "pros and cons in all things" argument screams "false compromise" as well:

"my girlfriend wants to be monogamous and i want to sleep around, so we compromised and are now monogamous all the time, except for weekends."

good luck with that one... and just so you know im not the only person willing to pen a long-winded response to your argument about practicality, a (much more talented) writer addressed your very thesis 6 years ago:

https://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_ ... etter.html

please do not visit it unless you want to read even more-- its not a challenge, its an offer. it also has pros and cons-- it may not actually serve you in any way, shape or form. its also there in case someone else is interested. there is even a version in french for pelo.

[Sailor Enceladus]

Let the punishment fit the crime.

Saying bad things about Linux users in a Puppy forum calls for a beheading I think. Off with TyroBGinner's head!

[learnhow2code]

Saying bad things about Linux users in a Puppy forum calls for a beheading I think.

some despot toyed with the idea of doing that to bullwinkle once, and decided "no, that wont hurt him..." they opted to throw him into a CORBA* pit.

* in that case, the punishment would fit the crime!

* rocky: "thats 'astronaut'!" bullwinkle: "funnier my way!"

[Burn_IT]

I agree with TyroBGinner.
This used to be a sensible forum capable of discussing things rationally.

It has degenerated into a pathetic tirade against Windows.

There are many cases where Linux or Windows is the better tool to use and anybody that does not recognise that is being foolish to say the least.

[learnhow2code]

I agree with TyroBGinner.
This used to be a sensible forum capable of discussing things rationally.

*you* used to be a sensible forum capable of discussing things rationally... youre probably still capable, you just dont care. we obviously arent worth your time. case in point:

There are many cases where Linux or Windows is the better tool to use and anybody that does not recognise that is being foolish to say the least.

thats a conclusion backed up with an insult, posing as a rational argument. in my experience, thats mostly what you do. if i thought it was just at me, ive seen you pick less obvious targets-- some that more or less prove youre only out to lose credibility.

your summary of this forum, let alone this thread, is severely lacking-- but thats so obvious its barely worth mentioning. you are merely trumping up your personal bias-- which is exactly what you did the last time windows came up. your concept of "discussing things rationally" obviously means accepting your conclusion as our premise-- you never did offer the "argument" or respond (directly) to anyone elses points. and you didnt on the previous occasion.

[Burn_IT]

Well it seems that you can only use personal attacks as arguments - as I was saying degenerated.

[learnhow2code]

Well it seems that you can only use personal attacks as arguments

* IF one takes a thread you summarized entirely with a generalized insult,

* AND they ignore most of that thread,

* THEN yes-- your response could be one of a person that has at least some integrity.

* BUT... youre taking a lot for granted if you think that is the way it will turn out. youre hurting your case with these tactics. be my guest. why you think its so necessary for not only you-- but the rest of us to defend the merits of windows (in a thread asking if linux is used exclusively, on a forum about linux, in a subforum specifically for promoting puppy) and why you think that need is so "rational" is a detail youve chosen to keep to yourself.