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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
32-bit PCs on borrowed time...
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14532
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 19:35    Post subject:  32-bit PCs on borrowed time...
Subject description: Two major distroa are making it clear.
 

Hi people.

On DistroWatch today, two separate news make it clear that 32-bit computers are
nearing end-of-life...

PCLinuxOS HAS ALREADY dropped 32-bits entirely, and Debian, which is not as
drastic, dropping only 586's for now, but still.

"C'est écrit dans le Ciel, mes amis." / "It's written in the Sky, my friends."
(I wish I knew more languages...) Be prepared. Behave accordingly: set a little
money aside to buy newer hardware, when you're ready or need to catch up.

BFN.

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Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)

Last edited by musher0 on Mon 16 May 2016, 21:11; edited 1 time in total
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 19:38    Post subject:  

What is a 586 cpu?? Isn't that the original Pentiums? PC's with 166mhz processors and 8 MB of RAM from 1995. That's hardly the death knell for 64bit Debian.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 20:14    Post subject:  

Here is the list of processors being dropped.

These look a lot like what Puppy has been doing since Puppy 5 series. Puppy is doing this also, just not all at one time, but as the newer Puppy versions get released. they support less and less of the older processors and more of the newer latest processors.

The following processors, supported in jessie, are now unspported:

* AMD K5, K6, K6-2 (aka K6 3D), K6-3
* DM&P/SiS Vortex86, Vortex86SX
* Cyrix III, MediaGX, MediaGXm
* IDT Winchip C6, Winchip 2
* Intel Pentium, Pentium with MMX
* Rise mP6
* VIA C3 'Samuel 2', C3 'Ezra'

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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1565

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 20:21    Post subject:  

PCLinuxOS and Chrome can go to hell. Pentium III is a good base in 2016, I think. Enough to surf the internet adequately.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 20:52    Post subject:  

@Sailor -- I *like* my Chromium, thank you just the same...

@others -- decoding the x86-ness of that list from bigpup...

* AMD K5, K6, K6-2 (aka K6 3D), K6-3 -- i686
* DM&P/SiS Vortex86, Vortex86SX -- i486 with some i586 extentions
* Cyrix III, MediaGX, MediaGXm -- i786, I *think*, don't bother, they all suck
* IDT Winchip C6, Winchip 2 -- i486
* Intel Pentium, Pentium with MMX -- i586, heaven help you if you still need these to work...
* Rise mP6 -- i586 (?), very rare...
* VIA C3 'Samuel 2', C3 'Ezra' -- i786, don't bother with these, they suck.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 12982
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 21:42    Post subject:  

Puppy no longer support example:

From latest Slacko 6.3.0 release notes.
Quote:
Slacko (32 bit) has been known to run on a P3 733MHz processor with 256MB RAM. Slacko does not support old P2 or AMD K6.

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3601
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2016, 08:32    Post subject:  

It will not affect existing versions though so a bit of a drama panic.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2016, 22:56    Post subject:  

I know people are going to OBJECT, wildly, to this post, but, whether I say it or someone else says it, it should come as NO SURPRISE to anyone.

No one, today, is building for 286 or 386 or 486 or P1 or P2. ... NO ONE! and for some very good reasons that everyone can research on their own.

The news of this should not infringe upon anyone's understanding. With some reasoning, beyond emotion, there are a ton of reasons for why they are moving their efforts.

Heck they dont build cars from the turn of the last century today ... no matter if you have one or not. Parts become scarce and non-existent.

NO HUMAN LIKES CHANGE. We feel its disruptive and object. But, if you remember when you worked for some company, no matter which, you DO REMEMBER that even there, your products changed and your tools changed over time.

This should NOT be treated as some harrowing event or knowledge.

No offense to anyone. But, we are technical people with technical understanding and technical awareness.

The P3 is 2 decades old. The power hungry P4s are 17 years old. The 64bit arrive only a decade ago. Puppy Linux distros over the past decade work and work very well on these old PCs. The news that we are hearing DOES NOT affect any of the past deliverables from this PUPPY community. They will continue to run on the old iron.

Let's hope understanding prevails versus brash objections to change.

Further lets move Puppy Linux forward utilizing those product changes that can be beneficial to our home use.

Puppy Linux and the Puppy Linux movement will NOT be distracted by these changes. Technologist aren't distracted.

Please no one: I am NOT a futurist, nor am I objecting. I have seen so much change in my lifetime and for those younger than me, you will see those changes occur in your lives as well.

Again, please do NOT view this as offensive. It is ONLY if you make it so.

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2016, 23:06    Post subject:  

For once, I actually find myself agreeing with you!

...I'd better head off to find a thermometer...

Laughing Razz

Before I go, though -- the P3 really was a remarkably good design... basically everything Intel's pushed out after the P4 that wasn't saddled with the "Atom" moniker, is based on the P3 design. That includes the P-M, Core/Core2, and even the more modern Core i3/i5/i7 stuff... it's just a good microarchitecture to start with.

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6734
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2016, 23:53    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:

No one, today, is building for 286 or 386 or 486 or P1 or P2. ... NO ONE!


i386
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&notbasedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=i386&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&status=Active

i486
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&notbasedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=i486&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&status=Active

i586
https://distrowatch.com/search.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&notbasedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=i586&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&status=Active


http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/


Quote:
64-bit PC (AMD64) desktop image
Choose this to take full advantage of computers based on the AMD64 or EM64T architecture (e.g., Athlon64, Opteron, EM64T Xeon, Core 2). If you have a non-64-bit processor made by AMD, or if you need full support for 32-bit code, use the i386 images instead.
32-bit PC (i386) desktop image
For almost all PCs. This includes most machines with Intel/AMD/etc type processors and almost all computers that run Microsoft Windows, as well as newer Apple Macintosh systems based on Intel processors. Choose this if you are at all unsure.


Still a few little unknown distros supporting i386 and 1486........
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 00:18    Post subject:  

That "i386" code almost certainly (like most modern Puppies) includes a lot of i686 code which will not execute on a real 386... or even a real Pentium! i686 is Pentium Pro (no, not Pentium II) and typically requires an instruction called "CMOV" which does not exist on earlier CPUs...

I have the equipment to test, but not the motivation... sorry.

Not to mention that my 386 box (AM386SX/25 CPU, yes, twenty-five megahertz) has only four megabytes of RAM. I've been meaning to install the i387 math coprocessor I got off eBay for some time now -- which is a necessity to run Linux, as software FPU emulation is a nasty and perilous thing -- but this is hardly reason for it.

Also, you do realize that there (almost certainly) isn't a 386 motherboard made in all existence which can support the quantity of RAM that Ubuntu really needs, right...? The motherboard I have in my 386 box is able to handle a whopping sixteen megs, dead maximum. Mind you that's thirty-pin SIMMs, which are now both rare and expensive... this system will have none of your DDR nonsense, trust me. Ubuntu Server (which is without GUI and therefore useless as a desktop OS... which is kinda the point of a server, after all) has the lowest RAM requirement of... one hundred ninety-two megabytes. Everything else needs at least half a gig. I don't think a 386 CPU can actually address a half-gig of RAM!

tl;dr -- i386 != actually runs on a 386 CPU. As they say in NYC -- fagheddaboutit.

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6734
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 01:01    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:
That "i386" code almost certainly (like most modern Puppies) includes a lot of i686 code which will not execute on a real 386... or even a real Pentium! i686 is Pentium Pro (no, not Pentium II) and typically requires an instruction called "CMOV" which does not exist on earlier CPUs...

I have the equipment to test, but not the motivation... sorry.

Not to mention that my 386 box (AM386SX/25 CPU, yes, twenty-five megahertz) has only four megabytes of RAM. I've been meaning to install the i387 math coprocessor I got off eBay for some time now -- which is a necessity to run Linux, as software FPU emulation is a nasty and perilous thing -- but this is hardly reason for it.

Also, you do realize that there (almost certainly) isn't a 386 motherboard made in all existence which can support the quantity of RAM that Ubuntu really needs, right...? The motherboard I have in my 386 box is able to handle a whopping sixteen megs, dead maximum. Mind you that's thirty-pin SIMMs, which are now both rare and expensive... this system will have none of your DDR nonsense, trust me. Ubuntu Server (which is without GUI and therefore useless as a desktop OS... which is kinda the point of a server, after all) has the lowest RAM requirement of... one hundred ninety-two megabytes. Everything else needs at least half a gig. I don't think a 386 CPU can actually address a half-gig of RAM!

tl;dr -- i386 != actually runs on a 386 CPU. As they say in NYC -- fagheddaboutit.


Since you seem to be assuming things that i didn't include in my post I figured I'd respond.

Nowhere in my post did I write that Ubuntu or any distro would run or install on any particular hardware, I merely posted that those distros support those architectures....... no more and no less.

FWIW, I agree that Ubuntu won't even try to run on such a low amount of ram though it would be interesting to see if it would even try to boot. Smile
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s-kami


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 143
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 10:38    Post subject:  32 bit very old laptop
Subject description: for work...fun! Cool ?!
 

Oooops !

Woow !
Fun! Respect!
Laughing

https://captainkerbal.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/success-is-sweet-under-20-second-boots/

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 5056
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 11:15    Post subject:  

@ James C -- If they "support" the architecture, that means that it's supposed to run on that architecture, plain and simple.

Meaning they don't actually support that architecture, they've just compiled some stuff for it, enough that they can label the whole CD as it and get away with things for the most part.

Which is exactly what I was trying to point out. Sorry that it hurt your feelings (and invalidated, for the most part, what you were trying to claim).

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6734
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 12:49    Post subject:  

starhawk wrote:
@ James C -- If they "support" the architecture, that means that it's supposed to run on that architecture, plain and simple.

Meaning they don't actually support that architecture, they've just compiled some stuff for it, enough that they can label the whole CD as it and get away with things for the most part.

Which is exactly what I was trying to point out. Sorry that it hurt your feelings (and invalidated, for the most part, what you were trying to claim).


If you seriously think you've invalidated anything by sharing your opinion I assume you're just trying to troll and I don't feel like playing.You could inform all those distros that they are wrong though, I'm sure they would appreciate your superior knowledge being shared.

I'm out of this thread.
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