Phasing out PETs

[Pelo]

The Debate about pets was necessary.
Some of our best pet makers perhaps will leave to other distros (fatdog64), keeping pet system, but for their new (and Lucky) passengers 64bits.

[learnhow2code]

The Debate about pets was necessary.
Some of our best pet makers perhaps will leave to other distros (fatdog64), keeping pet system, but for their new (and Lucky) passengers 64bits.

pets used to be called pups-- ive created both pets and pups and (though feel free to correct me) the main difference i can tell is that pups are pkzipped after the other zip.

probably pet has some other feature too. if they stopped using pet, the would probably:

* create something almost as easy

* create a way to convert pets to the new package type

probably no need for an exodus.

here are some things that go into a pet:

title
other package info
files and folders
hashes of files
scripts to run on install and removal

if they replaced pet, new package would probably have all that stuff, and be just as easy to make.

what would change? it might work better with new puppy versions.

everybody likes simple packages here, so i think we will likely have simple packages.

[01micko]

Ok this topic has spiraled out of control for long enough .


Nobody said pets are being abolished or removed or deprecated!

Distros facing the chop are
• arch
• mageia
• pet-based
• T2
• scientific

Why? Because they are unmaintained.

(NB: 'pet-based' are the archaic puppy-2 and puppy-4 series. T2 based are wary/racy. T2 packaging used tarballs not pets).

If you use a recent woof-CE based puppy (>=tahrpup, >=slacko-5.7) then you will notice that packaging of pets has been substantially improved.

• xz xompression has been added
• dir2pet allows creation of pets fully on the CLI (no gui needed - see Advanced below).

  Code: Select all

  # dir2pet
  
    -h|--help    show this help
    
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
  Basic:
    <name-of-dir>	the directory to be packaged. THIS IS THE PACKAGE.
  
  EXAMPLE:
  # dir2pet my_fun_game-0.1-i486
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  Advanced:  
    -s	skip all questions - useful for package build scripts
    -p	the directory of the program to be packaged. THIS IS THE PACKAGE.
    
  THE following options are only useful with the "-s" option.
  For best results, use as many as possible: 
  
  Compression: (only use one, default if none chosen is "gz")
    -x    use xz (high) compression
    -g	use gz (low) compression
    
  Non-compulsory:
    -w="<description>"	description of the application enclosed in "quotes"
    -d=<+deps>	comma delimited dependencies, with prepended "+" sign
    -c=<Category>	category of application; for package manager
    
  LIST of allowed Categories: (default: BuildingBlock)
  	Desktop
  	System
  	Setup
  	Utility
  	Filesystem
  	Graphic
  	Document
  	Business
  	Personal
  	Network
  	Internet
  	Multimedia
  	Fun
  
  EXAMPLE
  # dir2pet -x -s -w="fun game" -d=+gtk+,+ffmpeg,+cairo -p=my_fun_game-0.1-i486
  
  

• package management (petget) is undergoing improvements and there is a plan to support no gui install of pets from the repo.

Are we clear now?

I would suggest that the OP was a little confused and probably should edit the original post.

[Pelo]

Thanks Slacko. But Ubuntu Puppies get rid of the subject.

A pet is a clever trim of debian packages ! What is able to do only a Puppy expert.
Ask old puppy builders the time they spent making acurate pets for Puppy.
It's a boring work for people not wondering for the users. They tell you 'its very easy..' One Puppy buider makes pets for thousands of newbies is better that each newby tries to make it alone, in my opinion.
Perhaps true newbies are no longer welcome by Puppy Builders... Puppy would become a training OS with no public, a fortress where scientist compile, for themselves (intra-muros)
Soon they will ask you to make your Puppy yourself, with Woof CE.

French still have their pet maker Medor who compiles for numerous Slaxen passengers (French Slacko). However our expert Medor sometimes fails to compile (he is a Slacko man, not a tahrpup one) . Spanish have Nilson, for tharpup. And You would like newbies to succeed where experts fail ? Furtermore, to compile is the hobby of someones, but Puppy Linux is released to replace Windows, full featured with all applications needed at home, for different entertainment than programming linux programs... Or making pets.
i'am happy that Micko01 will not let Slacko users (not roots) abandoned.

[learnhow2code]

i can only guess that pelo thinks that making the cli options available means that there will be no more gui.

also that without the gui, the most difficult part of making a .pet is issuing the command, when its actually getting a directory of files in place (which actually do what is needed.)

where does ubuntu come into this? i dont know-- perhaps theyve done away with apt entirely, in which case the (false) assumption is that .pet wont work with ubuntu-based pups. the only think .pet has to do with .deb packages is that theyre both packages.

still no closer to figuring out what the problem is, perhaps because there isnt one, but how to reassure our friend here?

also pelo seems to think that anyone expects him to make .pet packages-- no pelo, the entire point of packaging is so that you dont have to. perhaps someone can explain that in french, english doesnt seem to be working on him.

[Pelo]

"perhaps someone can explain that in french, english doesnt seem to be working on him." sure it would be fine, very, very fine.
People on the forum speak english that i (quite) understand well..

But dependencies listed for an application does not mean anything for me, how to tick install or not. ???
So i install all, and my Puppy get big as a beef ! Medor Dejan Micko know the meaning of the jargon, and can choose what Puppy Linux passengers* will really need.
Some are easy, and light in spite of dependencies all included, but others are really huge.. and need to be trimmed. These ones need a pet, done by Linux experts.
Medor did it for us, but he refuse to do them for ubuntu puppies, considered as enemies of his Slackos (Slaxen)

*Passengers : a passenger board on the aircraft, but is unable to repair it (unless exception, of course)

[learnhow2code]

But dependencies listed for an application does not mean anything for me, how to tick install or not. ???

i could be wrong, but i think that matter of dependencies is for making, not using packages.

one of the things that happens on this forum is talk about development.

development affects developers and packagers only-- it does not affect "passengers."

so you dont have to tick anything. the reason i keep trying to reassure you is because you seem to have a concern that we are going to put this on the user-- no, this is not something the user has to bother with.

[Pelo]

learnhow2code , they want to transfer making the pets to users

[jlst]

.

[learnhow2code]

learnhow2code , they want to transfer making the pets to users

no... users have always been able to make pets. if they want to. but users never had to make pets.

you know how many pets ive made, in 10 years? just one...

you know how many they told me i had to make? not even 1.

no disrespect, but your concern is imaginary. this is puppy... even though someone worked on a gentoo puppy once, no one is going to turn puppy into gentoo! packages will stay easy. repeat: packages will stay easy. its okay, you can keep using them the same as you did before. theyre adding options, (options) not requirements (non exigences.)

Nobody should take Pelo seriously. He doesn't understand what he reads... after 8000 posts i'd an expert i guess..

noted.

[Pelo]

Just wait and see. I will be glad if i am wrong. The message is sent, in any case. I will link this topic to people asking us to compile pets.

[learnhow2code]

Just wait and see. I will be glad if i am wrong.

i would be happy to read a post about your ideas for making puppy even easier-- write it in french if you like.

i realize a lot of people just want things to stay the same.

when designs stay mostly the same for the user, this is sometimes called "stability." personally, i think stability is a good thing to want in an operating system, and you can get more of it from linux than windows these days.

[jlst]

.

[Sailor Enceladus]

Wait and see that he doesn't understand what he reads hahaha

If Xenialpup stays at 7.0.7 forever and Slacko 14.2 never arrives I guess we will have to do some things ourselves to keep puppy going. Wait and see, wise words Pelo! jlst does not understand what he reads haha

[learnhow2code]

i like to give people a chance. im well aware that giving them a chance is often pointless, but i get you.

[Pelo]

Try Xenialpup, there are some new applications provided in the packages PPM. I will do a pet ! God Pupsaves Puppy, don't worry
vokoscreen_2.4.0-2.pet: 1008 K. Just used gnewpet. Easy because no dependencies. We are not bad people here to worry our Puppy-builders. When we complain , it is a preventive attitude.

[s243a]

learnhow2code , they want to transfer making the pets to users

no... users have always been able to make pets. if they want to. but users never had to make pets.

I've made a few pets. The tricking thing is when the make process depends on your target build locations.

This makes it a bit more complicated then simply building to tmp and then using dir2pet.

What I did in this case was first build to tmp, copy the list of files, then build to my real system. From the list of files copy the files from my real system to tmp and then using dir2pet.

This was a bit tricky. I'm sure more experienced users and or developers have better approaches.

I think fatdog64 has a sandbox approach but I haven't learned how it works yet.

Another way that I built pets is via the puppy package manager. The reason was so that I could install the pets from the command line using petget.

Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

[learnhow2code]

Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

no argument there.

If Xenialpup stays at 7.0.7 forever and Slacko 14.2 never arrives I guess we will have to do some things ourselves to keep puppy going.

some people want to make a script for automating puppy on top of existing distros. this would be a huge step forward for puppy.

in the past, there wasnt much reason to go to that kind of trouble-- for puppy, or for debian. these days, there are things people want to do with puppy and debian (separately, but in this case together) that really warrant the effort.

the script could probably be adapted for ubuntu, or someone is already thinking about that. would you have to run the script? no, thats not the point-- the point is it would bring you new puppies from the developers a lot faster and more reliably.

distro factories and automated forks/respins are becoming a thing-- think of it as puppy-remaster-for-ubuntu. still at the idea stage, and definitely more than im up to-- distro generators are projects for people with at least a little distro-maintaining experience.

[Moose On The Loose]

[...]

Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

I used this method to give others Kicad for puppy 528. When/if the PPM goes away I can see a big mess of people basically reproducing it in various forms in an attempt to make things as easy as the PET system makes things. Basically the PPM system is on the long list of things I consider not broken and thus don't need fixing.

[jlst]

.