how many puppy users are there in 2016?

[learnhow2code]

I should be counted 2

hey, its raffy! now send lobster over to count up one.

[jlst]

There could be more users. According to my experience, ROX is one of the main reasons desktop users don't treat puppy seriously.

I tried to introduce puppy to my brother, but he enraged when he tried to use rox, he tried to copy and paste a file with the Keyboard, he just went nuts. There is only one panel, etc.

A few months later, i told him.. look lxpup, pcmanfm.. windows explorer... he said it's not official and that puppy is not a serious distribution to work with.

I know many people think like him. I don't blame them. I also grew to have a pathological hatred for ROX, as it's hardcoded everywhere.

[Sailor Enceladus]

I just open two windows lol. But yes, anything new throws people set-in-their-ways off. If Windows came with Rox too everything would be ok. The argument can easily be thrown in reverse and we can say your brother is not a serious user ;D K.I.S.S. etc.

[learnhow2code]

There could be more users. According to my experience, ROX is one of the main reasons desktop users don't treat puppy seriously.

rox is just part of puppy. i mean it could be worked out, but no one wants to go to all the trouble. my own feeling is that its stuck that way.

take what im doing, which is setting up a system that starts with devuan and then copies over the stuff from puppy that would make it puppy-- but until it reaches the point where it is itself puppy, it also has a "native" puppy mode. i havent copied over rox yet, but ive thought about it. because whats going to make it "puppy" faster than rox?

the DESKTOP, ICONS, and file windows (and automounter) all use it. almost every puppy screencap has the rox pinboard, just like XFCE has one from thunar. how do you change the icon settings on the XFCE desktop? from the file manager. (how about explorer.exe in windows xp?) would the puppy community (most of it) ever want something other than the rox pinboard for a desktop? i dont know, theyve liked it for 10 years.

if i said "ok, no rox pinboard by default" i think they would just throw more tomatoes-- even though they dont use my half-pup anyway. we arent technically stuck with rox we are culturally stuck with it. i dont think its terrible, because as you say i can just open the file manager i prefer. theres only one thing about rox i truly loathe, and it can be turned off-- the way every folder resizes? i hate that so much. quit moving around the screen... im sure someone loves it.

[Pete]

@learnhow2code

I'm not sure if were are talking about the same thing, but it also drove me crazy until I discovered the resize options:

[learnhow2code]

I'm not sure if were are talking about the same thing

pretty sure we are:

theres only one thing about rox i truly loathe, and it can be turned off-- the way every folder resizes?

yeah, its easily fixed. i sympathize with anyone that experiences it for the first time though.

and like i said, some people probably love it. some/all versions of explorer in windows 9x and later (at least 9x) did this too, but it wasnt as annoying. there had to be some minor difference in the way it was managed. there are advantages to the resize, but in quantity i feel like im chasing things with the mouse-- this is something i experienced > 5 years ago. its a feature, and not likely "fixed" in later versions.

[Pete]

Yup I agree, the default should be not to resize as it's much less of an irritation and as you say, it's better for a new user.

[learnhow2code]

counter is still climbing. im a little surprised its not at 100 yet, but i dont expect all puppy users to show up at once.

theres a 90-9-1 ratio we can apply to ramp the 45 users up to 450 users, and thats just of the people that actively lurk on the forums (which we know to be far more than 450.)

so thats using 90-9-1 (also known as/similar to the 1% principle) to go from the current 45 to 450, but we can step down instead from "10000" viewers (a recent metric, rounded down) and get 1000 users.

450-1000 puppy users is probably a conservative estimate, but if it turned out to be in that range i wouldnt be surprised. as for the number of inactive users, people who once used puppy-- we can get a better idea from downloads.

regarding downloads, i dont believe that 1 download = 1 user, in either direction. but if people arent going to use puppy, generally speaking-- why would they download it SO MUCH? if just one person in a 1000 downloads per year becomes a user... perhaps a better metric than this poll (so far) would be to count the number of custom pups and presume 5-10 users for each (on average.) thats over 100.

[Sailor Enceladus]

Yup I agree, the default should be not to resize as it's much less of an irritation and as you say, it's better for a new user.

I never saw it as a problem until the other day when someone in the chatroom said "Every time I make my window full screen it changes back to small", and I had no idea what they were talking about until I tried it with a Rox window, and sure enough it went out of full screen mode each time I changed to a different folder. Even on 1024x768 I think I've never needed to put Rox in full-screen mode, but I think changing a *maximized* window back to 100x50 is a bit over the top. So, that's 3 users now I've heard who support the idea of making "Always resize" not the default. Gotta try it for a while now too and see what I think.

edit: So far, I think I like it better when it resizes... Going from a giant folder to one with 2 files and it adjusting is nice, and an option I have may have never known about if it wasn't the default. Looks like I got used to it and now it has won me over

[learnhow2code]

So far, I think I like it better when it resizes

theres always one of you! (im cynical, i figure there are quite a few of you.)

fwiw, i think the idea of a website where you can pre-configure your iso (yes, much like slax) from selecting options and packages is idea.

now you can do this several ways-- you can do it so it actually creates an iso (and eat that bandwidth cost for year, then fold) or you can do is so it creates a remaster script (and this is what id recommend, even anyone ever wants to do a create-your-own-iso slax tribute. i have to be careful with the comparisons and metaphors, or someone will tell me that "slacko already exists" and "what youre talking about just sounds like needless complication." (sigh... yeah.)

at least *you* dont do that. so for said "make your own iso" website, you can do the backend in python (or if you hate yourself, perl or php) or you can SKIP a backend and do it all in javascript.

id rather use python, but im speaking hypothetically anyway. and python hosting isnt something i want to look for, and i dont run my own server anymore.

but if enough people dream of a make-your-own-puppy site, that imo is the "easy way." or the cheap way. certainly a doable way. and you could totally select your preference about rox resizing in that! (or just enjoy the current default for over 10 years, which is completely... fine... its fine...)

just note that it started with someone critiquing rox, and saying that the worst thing about it was a fixable option was the *defense* i gave for rox

[Pete]

.....Looks like I got used to it and now it has won me over.

Looks like we have lost another one to the evil Dr Rox.

It's an interesting point you bring up Sailor Enceladus, do people generally favour auto resizing versus static?

Perhaps others will chime in here with their preference.
I personally don't like auto resize as it's too distracting having this window
all over the place but that is only my feeling.

Can I still have my cookie now?

[learnhow2code]

I personally don't like auto resize as it's too distracting

fig os 0.9 (with its very sexy boot screen) now has rox. unfortunately rox is located at /usr/local/apps/rox instead of /usr/local/bin/rox but thats ok because none of the config files (like the ones that say what .mp4 opens with) are included yet.

oh, and resize is still the default.

but you know whats the worst thing? its way too responsive. so responsive, youre like "what did it do?" on a p4 that was ok, but these days i want in a window manager the responsiveness i get from rox, and i want in a file manager the responsiveness i would expect from say, openbox.

[Pete]

Is the wallpaper equally as sexy?

[6502coder]

Going from a giant folder to one with 2 files and it adjusting is nice

Exactly. It drives me NUTS that Windows Explorer doesn't auto-resize.

[jlst]

99% of new users don't like rox filer, that's the truth... because they haver never used something as wacky before..

[musher0]

99% of new users don't like rox filer, that's the truth... because they haver never used something as wacky before..

Yep. This is Linux, my WhineDose friends, get used to "wacky"!!!

As for me, I now love the ROX-Filer! Couldn't live without it!
Although the learning curve was steep in the beginning.

BFN.

[learnhow2code]

Is the wallpaper equally as sexy?

sort of, its totally "naked" of wallpaper. i could put the desktop in a little thong...

then again, its technically a puppy.

a puppy in a thong just doesnt seem right.

[jlst]

Yep. This is Linux, my WhineDose friends, get used to "wacky"!!!

As for me, I now love the ROX-Filer! Couldn't live without it!
Although the learning curve was steep in the beginning.

BFN.

Yeah i can use it, but i can't do much with it. However as you can see https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... bad747386b, defaultarchiver replaces pupzip, and pupzip is now completely optional (this script runs xarchive).

What happens is that in puppy some apps are hardcoded, for someone who wants to use an alternative app in a "normal" way, they to have overwrite stuff. Unfortunately rox is hardcoded everywhere and with specific switches that forces developers to overwrite and edit files to get a proper alternative file manager working as the "default", but i'll do my best to make rox "optional" by default.

[jlst]

There is also a misunderstanding here.. being a linux user doesn't mean people will get used to rox.. that's absurd. the vast majority of linux users use a Windows-like file manager... yes, 2 panels, and mountable drives on the left panel.

That's the sad truth hehe.

[Sailor Enceladus]

@jlst: I gotta agree with musher0. Barry chose what he did for excellent reasons, and that is what makes puppy great. You are stuck in your "two panels" way, and that is fine for you, but that doesn't mean Rox is crippled, you're just not using it right!