yeah, you can make a lot of things work by using an older version. im not entirely comfortable with that solution, in fact id advise people to reconsider it-- but i also support (in a way) anyone that wants to do that even though i dont recommend it as a rule.Pete wrote:I too had loads of problems with VLC until Billtoo compiled it.
sci fi puppy 2038
-
learnhow2code
The version that Billtoo compiled is the latest version, 2.2.4 WeatherWax.
Here it is:
http://www.smokey01.com/Bill2/
Here it is:
http://www.smokey01.com/Bill2/
In case others are reading this and thinking that I'm pushing Windows as the best OS, I'm not, in fact I think it's the worst OS, but one cannot argue with like 98% of the market share.
The best way to convert people to using Puppy (and Linux generally) is to make a version that is as least alien to them as possible.
If it means a bit of bloatware, then so be it, at least they are on Linux and slowly they will start to realize the advantages and become more experimental.
Furthermore now is the time, if one looks on the net, there are a heck of a lot of die hard Windows fans that are very discontented with win10 and are looking for an alternative.
And no, no Puppy as it stands quite fills the role of intermediate OS to get them going.
It's time to fatten the dog up a bit me thinks.
The best way to convert people to using Puppy (and Linux generally) is to make a version that is as least alien to them as possible.
If it means a bit of bloatware, then so be it, at least they are on Linux and slowly they will start to realize the advantages and become more experimental.
Furthermore now is the time, if one looks on the net, there are a heck of a lot of die hard Windows fans that are very discontented with win10 and are looking for an alternative.
And no, no Puppy as it stands quite fills the role of intermediate OS to get them going.
It's time to fatten the dog up a bit me thinks.
-
Sailor Enceladus
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Mon 22 Feb 2016, 19:43
For me, leafpad, gnome mplayer, firefox, and mtpaint are enough. I agree about some of the scary warnings though.Pete wrote:It's not that I want a bigger pup for the sake of it, let me explain and apologies if I go OT at times but I think this subject is closely related to getting more people (especially Windows users) to use puppy.
Computers are getting faster and cheaper and so it internet connectivity, so perhaps it's time to relook at the acceptable file sizes for Puppies.
For years and years most puppies hover around the 100 - 150MB range.
Nice, simple, fast and efficient but let's be honest, it leaves out a lot of stuff that would make a beginners life much easier.
For starters, the devx should not be a separate download as it contains important stuff like Python and others that cause things to break if it's not loaded.
Graphics, well what is included as normal is InkscapeLite and mtPaint.
Uhmmm, not the best options for beginners.
InkscapeLite is a total waste of time, either include the full version or nothing at all.
mtPaint is very versatile but it's not exactly intuitive for the beginner, especially if all they used thus far is MSpaint.
So why not include Inkscape (the full version) a MSpaint clone (and no mtPaint is NOTHING like MSpaint) and for the seasoned artists Gimp as well.
How much can those add? perhaps another 100MB?
As for multimedia, why not make VLC the default player?
It can do video, audio, dvd's, streaming media and is a converter (well not a very good one but still) plus a large percentage of Windows users will be familiar with it.
Mplayer is a far better player specially for more exotic codecs but it has many quirks.
OpenOfiice should also be included as many puppies are very lacking in the "business" area.
Gnumeic and Abiword are clunky, limited and have quite a few bugs.
By including OpenOffice, the user has a very close experience to MSword, excel and powerpoint.
Then there are those ugly messages that come up like "don't remove your drive" or whatever, they look horrible, like something out of Win95.
One thing that devs should always ask themselves, am I making a small, compact distro for the seasoned user or one for beginners?
If it's for the latter, then yes size should take a second place (within reason) to a bit of eye-candy, ease of use and more cross platform programs that will already be familiar.
Look at Win8 and Win10, they are abominations but the eye-candy is second to none.
Good looks and ease of use sells, end of.
So if a Puppy especially made for the Windows user lands up being 350-400MB, is that really such a big deal if the users experience will be that much more rewarding?
-
jlst
Most people just want their puppy to work out of the box, however to cover most cases the kernel built needs to be at least twice as big, the firmware has to be be the complete package.
Puppies right now are using a predefined and very limited firmware package.... that is outdated nowadays.
However after building a kernel it's possible to choose the appropriate set of firmwares, but the work on this is unreliable and incomplete and it will just takes too much time to finish. I'd rather ship a complete firmware package including a bunch of exotic and non free firmware.
Puppies right now are using a predefined and very limited firmware package.... that is outdated nowadays.
However after building a kernel it's possible to choose the appropriate set of firmwares, but the work on this is unreliable and incomplete and it will just takes too much time to finish. I'd rather ship a complete firmware package including a bunch of exotic and non free firmware.
Give me an estimate. What percentage of devices that Puppy users would encounter are not covered by the current firmware package.jlst wrote:Puppies right now are using a predefined and very limited firmware package.... that is outdated nowadays.
If there was a significant problem, one would expect the forum to be flooded with requests for firmware. But the ones I see are just for a few WiFi drivers.
-
learnhow2code
jlst wrote:Puppies right now are using a predefined and very limited firmware package.... that is outdated nowadays.
i too would rather have a more complete kernel.I'd rather ship a complete firmware package including a bunch of exotic and non free firmware.
as for non-free firmware, im all for separating the repos like debian traditionally does. if that makes me a purist, im ok with that. i really dont care for non-free firmware, but im not out to tell people what to do with it, only the disadvantages of using it.
the debian way of doing that is the way i prefer-- i would not suggest it is the puppy way. "out of the box," like you said. (im happy to do this a non-puppy way.)
I'm also not a fan of non-free firmware/drivers, but if the firmware and/or drivers were made as .ko's and available as extra (easy to load) sfs and made more hardware work like wifi cards, more printers, video cards and so on, then even using non-free ones would be the lesser of two evils, i.e. yes it would taint your kernel but then all the extra hardware would work.
Since they would be optional add-ons, each one has the choice of whether to install them or not.
This practice is already quite common for propriety nVidia drivers, so why not expand on the idea?
Since they would be optional add-ons, each one has the choice of whether to install them or not.
This practice is already quite common for propriety nVidia drivers, so why not expand on the idea?
-
learnhow2code
if i were asked how to do it, i would say have a librezdrv sfs and a nonfreezdrv sfs. but since no ones asked, i will pretend i didnt say that. seriously, not only do i think it will not happen, i dont have the patience to sort them out. i can however, provide alternatives to using zdrv.Pete wrote:Since they would be optional add-ons, each one has the choice of whether to install them or not.
This practice is already quite common for propriety nVidia drivers, so why not expand on the idea?
-
jlst
Hmmm I don't know haha. Obviously you know better, and as one of the most experienced developers/users here, i would certainly hear everything you have to say... for example, what firmware files are worth adding to the firmware tarballs, etc...rcrsn51 wrote: Give me an estimate. What percentage of devices that Puppy users would encounter are not covered by the current firmware package.
If there was a significant problem, one would expect the forum to be flooded with requests for firmware. But the ones I see are just for a few WiFi drivers.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/firmware/
One of those files are used for official puppies (i guess), kernel-kit can also download the linux-firmware git repo and extract firmware according to what has been compiled (of course this isn't working), updated today .. I think i'll ask micko if i can get an account so i can secretly fix many packages/files...
-
jlst
It certainly can be done, we just need to make some obscure firmwares into packages. Then a script can ask whether to install these..Pete wrote:I'm also not a fan of non-free firmware/drivers, but if the firmware and/or drivers were made as .ko's and available as extra (easy to load) sfs and made more hardware work like wifi cards, more printers, video cards and so on, then even using non-free ones would be the lesser of two evils, i.e. yes it would taint your kernel but then all the extra hardware would work.
Since they would be optional add-ons, each one has the choice of whether to install them or not.
This practice is already quite common for propriety nVidia drivers, so why not expand on the idea?
Although I made a huge firmware package for personal use including all the firmware i found becuae i just feel lazy
There is the fdrv that is now working properly in woofce, i use this file as the fdrv
http://www.megafileupload.com/blK6/linu ... ection.sfs
-
learnhow2code