Touchscreen optimisation - Dell Duo tablet

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gcmartin · #16 Post by **gcmartin** » Wed 07 Sep 2016, 18:08

For @Dry Falls JLH.

For finger-touch on any open desktop area which pops the Menu under the touch (user responses when demo'ing this has always been seen as useful by testors):

Finger use provides all the same functionality found as if you were using a mouse button#1...ALL.

I have to look to find where a member tries to explain how @TaZoC accomplished having that occur in LH, OOTB. JLH just continues the useful practice where you click mouse 1 and launch any system application. The explanation attempts to indicate that it can be done in other distros. But, I was unable to get the steps to place that functionality in FD6. If I can find it, it may be a desktop feature that could be added to Slacko64.

Hope this is useful.

greengeek · #17 Post by **greengeek** » Wed 07 Sep 2016, 19:37

gcmartin wrote:For finger-touch on any open desktop area which pops the Menu under the touch.

Hi GC, thanks for the link.

In order to get the menu popup on leftclick (on desktop) it is necessary to do the following (assuming the user has jwm active...):

1) Open /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc and change onroot="3" to onroot="1"

2) This will also have the unfortunate side effect of switching off the main menu (tray button) functionality so you must also do the following:
Open /root/.jwmrc-tray and change the button action from root:3 to root:1
(After your changes you need to run fixmenus, folllowed by jwm -reload or jwm -restart)

For further detail see MochiMoppels posts in this thread

I will be incorporating this into the pets I am building which are designed to transform 01micko's 32bit Slacko (without xorgwizard) into a touch optimised puppy that responds well to normal sized human fingers (rather than the pinpoint tip of mousepointer). I hope to do this for as many touch tablets as I can get my hands on. (remembering of course that this suits x86 tablets only - not arm etc)

micko's thread here

EDIT : I would think the same method would work in Slacko64 - I assume that runs jwm. I think that LH (and I assume JLH) use openbox so they will use a different technique. It is a while since i tried LH as the icons and menus were just too small to hit accurately with a finger on a small screen such as I have.

EDIT 2 : Edited item 1) above to correct syntax.
.

greengeek · #18 Post by **greengeek** » Wed 07 Sep 2016, 23:20

drunkjedi wrote:Hey greengeek, did you try long pressing on screen to get right mouse click options?

Thanks dj - I just gave that a try but it has no effect unfortunately. However I have just found a way to enable rox rightclick functions from a desktop leftclick so that gives me a way forward. Needs a bit of fine-tuning and testing but I hope to post back in a couple of days with progress.

Basically it involves inserting a new menu definition into the /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc file.
In this example below I have just used a hackup of a portion of the existing onroot="3" menu but it serves to illustrate the method. I just want to post it here so I don't forget the technique:

Code: Select all

<RootMenu label="Menu" labeled="false" height="24" onroot="1">

<!-- <Exit confirm="false" label="Exit to prompt" icon="prompt16.xpm" /> -->
<Program label="Smartbox" icon="prompt16.xpm">gxmessage "Smartypants"</Program>
<Program label="Rightclick" icon="mini-turn.xpm">xdotool click 3</Program>
<Program label="RoxRightclick" icon="mini-stop.xpm">xdotool key backslash</Program>
<Program label="Restart X server" icon="mini-x.xpm">restartwm</Program>
<Restart label="Restart JWM" icon="mini-windows.xpm"/>
<!-- <Program label="Change Window Manager" icon="mini-windows.xpm">changewm.sh</Program> -->
</RootMenu>

I havent bothered modifying icons yet but thats the next step

greengeek · #19 Post by **greengeek** » Sat 10 Sep 2016, 23:48

gcmartin wrote:JLH just continues the useful practice where you click mouse 1 and launch any system application. The explanation attempts to indicate that it can be done in other distros. .. it may be a desktop feature that could be added to Slacko64.

Hi GC - I think there are other Slacko 64 versions than the one 01micko has posted in this thread, and I don't know if the following technique works for those, but it definitely works for this threads version of Slacko64-6.3.0.1 (without xorgwizard).

All that is necessary is to do the following:

1) Open the file /etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc in a text editor.
2) Locate the single line that says:

Code: Select all

<RootMenu label="1" labeled="false" height="MENHEIGHT" onroot="1"><Include>exec:$HOME/.jwm/root_menus/menu1</Include></RootMenu>

and replace it with the following:

Code: Select all

<RootMenu label="Menu" labeled="false" height="MENHEIGHT" onroot="1">
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-desktop.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-system.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-setup.menu
	<Separator/>
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-utility.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-filesystem.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-graphic.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-document.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-calculate.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-personal.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-network.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-internet.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-multimedia.menu
	PUPPYMENU jwm-xdgmenu /etc/xdg/menus/puppy-fun.menu
	<Separator/>
	<Program label="Help" icon="help48.png">exec defaulthtmlviewer file:///usr/share/doc/index.html</Program>
	<Program label="Leave" icon="shutdown48.png">/usr/sbin/logout_gui</Program>
</RootMenu>

3) Save the file
4) In a terminal enter the following:
fixmenus
5) In a terminal enter the following:
jwm -restart

You will now have the normal Puppy menu displaying when you leftclick on the open desktop.

Different Puppies may have slightly different setups around the jwm menus but this basic method is the same in most cases. Please let me know if it doesn't work for you - I would be keen to work out why not.
cheers!

ps: this method does not impact the normal functioning of the main menu button at the bottom left of the screen - it behaves normally.
.

gcmartin · #20 Post by **gcmartin** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 00:05

Thanks for this. I have not had a moment to test yet, but I certainly will. I will need to download boot and modify on my HP laptop soon. I assume you would want me to test using the latest Slacko7 that is underway.

One hope is that some developers see and understand this benefit for touch screen users and take advantage of what you are doing to bring this to community attention.

@TaZoC did all of this without the benefit of a touch screen, yet saw advantage in doing so in his distros. You are bringing similar technology to standard PUPs for touch-screen users.

If the development community does not find a "left click to launch" as a item for non-touch screen use, they may decide to test at boot time to make mouse #1 for screen touch to do so OR they could offer it as a selection in FirstRUN OR ...

Thanks.

greengeek · #21 Post by **greengeek** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 00:10

gcmartin wrote:If the development community does not find a "left click to launch" as a item for non-touch screen use, they may decide to test at boot time to make mouse #1 for screen touch to do so OR they could offer it as a selection in FirstRUN OR ...

Yes it might be a handy option for FirstRun.

I didnt like the idea of the leftclick menu at first but I have spent the last few days almost entirely using a touchscreen Puppy tablet and now I see it is actually really nice to be able to tap anywhere on the open desktop instead of trying to find the sweetspot on a menu button way down at bottom left.

MochiMoppel · #22 Post by **MochiMoppel** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 03:42

greengeek wrote:I do have a question regarding Rox - is there any way to get a "new folder" icon to show alongside the other icons that appear on the top row of a rox window?

You should accept the fact that the GUI of ROX-Filer is almost non-customizable. Even if you use amigo's patch to add such button you will still have to struggle with an inflexible file manager not really suitable for a touchscreen. You may want to consider to change to a different file manager. Almost any other fm will do, it's hard to find a fm worse than ROX-Filer.

Attached screenshot shows the lightweight emelFM2 which allows tons of buttons, with the "new folder" icon already as default. You can increase icon size to 60x60px, which will make them finger friendly (I kept icons in top row of right panel with their default so you can see the difference).

greengeek · #23 Post by **greengeek** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 06:14

MochiMoppel wrote:.... emelFM2 which allows tons of buttons, with the "new folder" icon already as default. You can increase icon size to 60x60px, which will make them finger friendly

Thanks for the tip about emelfm customisability. That may come in handy. I did try xfe in order to get extra functionality that rox lacks but found the icons too small.

You should accept the fact that the GUI of ROX-Filer is almost non-customizable. .... it's hard to find a fm worse than ROX-Filer.

OK, well thats putting it pretty bluntly

The problem is - I thought Rox was one of the sacrosanct ingredients of a true puppy. Isn't the jwm/rox pairing one of the cornerstones?

Oh well, unless someone does have the ability to make improvements to Rox I will have to accept it's current limitations. However, I am pleased to report that I have found a method that works great on a touchscreen and allows the user to access the rightclick functionality of rox filer and manipulate directories and files perfectly well.

You mentioned in another thread that the backslash key "" can be used as a shortcut to pop up the rox filer rightclick contect menu so what I have done is to make a new "root:1" menu for the leftclick on desktop and one of the choices there is to pop up the rox menu. I am pleasantly surprised how functional it makes the tablet.

As well as the rox filer right click the new desktop menu also includes a link to the normal puppy main menu and also a link to xvkbd onscreen keyboard which can be popped up to allow typing.

Thanks to your postings in other threads I was able to add a new root:1 addition to etc/xdg/templates/_root_.jwmrc as follows:

Code: Select all

<RootMenu label="1" labeled="false" height="MENHEIGHT" onroot="1">
	<Program label="RoxRightclick" icon="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/roxrightclick.png">xdotool key backslash</Program>
	<Program label="Desktop Menu" icon="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/menu.png">xdotool click 3</Program>
	<Program label="Keyboard" icon="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/kbdmid.png">xvkbdmid</Program>
</RootMenu>

The tablet is now really useable with one finger.

Here are some screenshots:

gcmartin · #24 Post by **gcmartin** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 19:36

@MochiMoppel, myself and few others are the rare members (outside of developers) who use dual pane fm. My choice is a JAVA based one, muCommander (others listed here, as well). BUT, I have not tried "long-touch" for mouse #2 button support in any fm, thus far. It is now on my todo list.

greengeek · #25 Post by **greengeek** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 19:52

gcmartin wrote:others listed here, as well)..

Thanks for the link to that thread. I think any any attempts to enhance useability of touchscreen puppies will centre around the customisability of the wm/fm. I am now quite happy with the way the jwm/roxfiler combo is working with the new root:1 menu but different devices may not suit it quite so well.

And if we ever get to the stage of having a Puppy on a commonly available arm/android tablet it may be necessary to ditch the accepted Puppy choices and rework the basic ingredients in a way that better supports multitouch and fat fingers.

The same is true of browsers - I just can't find a way to make the tab controls bigger in Firefox.

If I could find a way to port the Roxfiler nextclick "crosshair" to other programs it would be great.

So many challenges - so little time.

gcmartin · #26 Post by **gcmartin** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 21:23

One other idea that comes to mind, although, I have not done more than consider the idea awhile ago, is to run other OSes (other than MS) on my touch PCs over the years. Yes, MS does a very creditable job, but I have not ventured outside of Lighthouse on my HP PC solutions.

I have tested Slacko64, and FD6+ from time to time, but LH has been my PUP whenever my HP has been used in travel and seminars. It has been greatly used, providing me with simple quiet touch especially in dark rooms where I merely look at the screen and touch for many needs.

Sincerely hope the developers understand what you are showing the community thru your efforts; packaging what you present for WOOFCE implementation. This takes steps where a PUP can be useful on PCs; non-touch and touch! ... as well as tablets and other screened handhelds.

I wonder if other members have additional ideas of touch needs not seen in either LH, JLH, or here.

MochiMoppel · #27 Post by **MochiMoppel** » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 04:31

greengeek wrote:If I could find a way to port the Roxfiler nextclick "crosshair" to other programs it would be great.

What is Roxfiler nextclick ?

So many challenges

How do you drag, e.g. when resizing or moving windows? I think that touchpads can be configured to accept double-click as a drag start, but does this also apply to touchscreens?

greengeek · #28 Post by **greengeek** » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 09:36

MochiMoppel wrote:What is Roxfiler nextclick ?

Well - bear in mind that I use the names rox and rox filer more or less interchaneably so forgive me if I've called it the wrong thing (you know I'm not very pedantic or accurate

) - If I open the "file" (home) icon on the desktop as an example I can right click on the whitespace in that directory and one of the choices is "next click". If I select that and then choose the "next action" I want from the submenu I can then move my mouse over the files and directories in there I will see a "crosshair" which allows me to select the object upon which I wish my "next action" to be performed.

This is hardly a necessary function when you have a rightclick mouse key available but is very handy on a touchscreen.

I have made a sample video here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3j349 ... k_test.mkv

How do you drag, e.g. when resizing or moving windows? I think that touchpads can be configured to accept double-click as a drag start, but does this also apply to touchscreens?

On the touchscreen it appears that if I hold my finger on the top bar of the window for a second and a half the window gets selected and I can move it around.

If i want to resize it I press the small icon at the very top left of the window and it pops up a list of possible functions including resize. If I select resize it places the cursor (mousepointer?) at the bottom right corner of the window - on the actual grab handle and all I have to do is put my finger there and slide it to the position that gives me the window geometry I want. (This would be very hard if i didnt use the resize function from that menu as i usually have a hard time finding the sweet spot on the grab handle - even with an accurate mouse). (in fact I have long wished that there was some way to improve the "grabability" of that bottom right grab handle as it annoys me considerably.

I have made a sample video showing touchscreen window resizing here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k76s5 ... agtest.mkv

gcmartin · #29 Post by **gcmartin** » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 21:14

Just to offer my experiences in PUPPY Linux use (via LH, FD, Slacko64, and JLH). Others may have different ways of expressing the same.

How do you drag ...

The idea that one should understand, is that your finger is the mouse pointer and if you simultaneously hold down mouse button one when on the top line of any window, you drag it anywhere you like just as if you were using a mouse. In LH, if I double tap the top window line it does what you get when using the mouse. If I tap and hold, I can drag a window.

If i need to resize, I tap to a Window edge which changes the mouse pointer (same as a real mouse) and hold mouse button 1 down at the same time to resize any window.

Your finger is your pointer. And it behaves much the same as using your finger on a laptop's touchpad.

Interestingly is that some/many schools are rolling out tablets for kids. Their use should be looked at, as to the kind of people who will increasingly be coming to Puppyland. As such they will bring a touch knowledge-experience where we must provide a level of comfort in what they already know and how to use that in their use in PUPPY screens.

Touch brings productivity in user use..

greengeek · #30 Post by **greengeek** » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 23:25

gcmartin wrote:If i need to resize, I tap to a Window edge which changes the mouse pointer (same as a real mouse) and hold mouse button 1 down at the same time to resize any window.

Your finger is your pointer. And it behaves much the same as using your finger on a laptop's touchpad.

How do you achieve the following on your touchscreens:
1) Create a new directory in the currently displayed directory (eg open root directory and make a new directory in there?)
2) Rename a directory?

Cheers

gcmartin · #31 Post by **gcmartin** » Mon 12 Sep 2016, 23:47

In LH, I always had to use mouse button 2 in ROX and finger tap the selection.

I may just need to fire up a Windows on the HP (haven't used it much there in 5 years - Vista) to see how mouse 2 is accomplished in the touch screen. Then return to PUP to replicate, if it exist. There is 1-finger, 2-finger, 10-finger, tap, long-press, etc all of which I have not investigated. You have peaked my interest in how to effectively make use of the modern touch services in PUPs we have.

rufwoof · #32 Post by **rufwoof** » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 03:31

Puppy touch screen and tilt can be very hit and miss

gcmartin · #33 Post by **gcmartin** » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 07:29

Ha ha.

rufwoof wrote:Puppy touch screen and tilt can be ...

Good point. I hadn't given a thought of rotate, if that what you refer.

In phones and tablets, the controller for that is a feature that PCs do not have. So, I would not, at this juncture expect to see that just yet until PCs are manufactured with the same hardware features that phones have, today. The way things are looking, it might be a goodly while before we do.

Cheers!

Pete · #34 Post by **Pete** » Tue 13 Sep 2016, 07:52

I truly hate those auto rotate sensors in phones, they very often get their knickers in a knot and don't know which way to rotate and get it wrong.
One is then left waving and moving the device like a man demented trying to get it the right way round.

Why can't there just be a button?
Press once it rotates, press again rotates 90 degrees, and so on.
The fact that PC's don't have this sensor, is not such a bad thing, just program
a key to do the function.

gcmartin · #35 Post by **gcmartin** » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 05:13

I am not sure of 2 things as far as rotate is concern.

If I am not mistaken, many/some tablets actually have the sensor. But, I am not sure what a Linux OS does with it signals? Obviously something???

Reason I say this is understanding the foundation of Android/iOS/webOS/ChromeOS: So that is code in the system to respond and rotate. In an Android phone, we merely swipe down and turn off that hardware feature. Thus the code to respond never gets a signal from the sensor.

But, we are talking about PUPPY Linux distro, which I dont believe has any code presently to respond to screen rotation. And there's more to it if I remember correctly...namely active focus application remaps.

Still we could be, or we are, quite a ways away from this being addressed. ... I think.

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Touchscreen optimisation - Dell Duo tablet