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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Quirky Xerus 8.1.4 for Raspberry Pi2 and 3
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5252
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 03:24    Post subject:  

Quote:
..but will probably also release a Lite version..
- thank you, friend, that decision influences my next Pi decision.
Switch-off: I have used the reset function (discrete contacts on Zero, GPIO on I B+) at all stages of operations as well as power switch with no adverse effects - so far.
As per BK, the absence of a vga port is, in my opinion a major oversight although I have an HDMI adapter (with sound) operating satisfactorily, but selectively, on Pi I with some monitors. All the major manufacturers still supply vga on their budget monitors, many projectors are vga-only. It is not always convenient to use HMDI on a TV if another family member is using it to watch 'soaps', for example! Furthermore, at this stage of proceedings, not all HDMI implementations are equal. And, combination of (digital) sound and vision may be clever but not well matched to this kind of project. Therein lies my main concern about deploying a device originally designed for teaching, control and general experimentation and demonstration as a fully fledged PC substitute. A basic m/b may be the better option as well as cheaper overall with better compatibilities and results - indeed, the wonder of Puppy has been that it'll run fast and efficiently with all you desire on a piece of junk rescued from the proverbial skip/dumpster, even if at the cost of a new BIOS battery, perhaps a few bad caps! No bundle of (expensive) add-ons & adapters to acquire, either.
Jide may be showing the way forward for ARM/Android-on-PC with yet another iteration about to hit kickstarter???!!!
[P.S. wine=whine ]
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DavidS

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 11:15    Post subject:  

There is a simple VGA available for the RPi, it is easy to put together using 15 resisters and a VGA plug, then there is a config.sys setting to use the VGA output as the default video out. I would have to look around the Raspberry Forums to find it again, though I will post a link here once found.

On sound:
I lost the sound again, nothing should have changed. I think I will try to get this monitor to accept CEA HDMI signal, as that may be the issue. Sound works well on all other OS'e with DMT video signal, though there seems to be something strange with Puppy and sound.

And I do not think that any one else using Puppy Linux is using DMT video.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 12:00    Post subject:  

DavidS wrote:
There is a simple VGA available for the RPi, it is easy to put together using 15 resisters and a VGA plug, then there is a config.sys setting to use the VGA output as the default video out. I would have to look around the Raspberry Forums to find it again, though I will post a link here once found.
I would be interested to read more about this if it is possible as the hdmi issue is the main reason I have not gone for the Pi.

The second post on this threadoffers reasons why they say passive hdmi to vga is impossible on the Pi (while indicating that it could work on some PC graphics cards that have analog outputs).

And this thread also seems to suggest that a powered hdmi to vga adapter is definitely a requirement for the Pi.

However I get the impression from these posts that an old monitor that has a DVI input could be run from the Pi via a passive cable.

EDIT : There seem to be some very cheap ($5) cables some people are using to change Pi hdmi to vga but I guess they must include electronics of some kind? (If so where do they take power from??) Video here (mentions the config.txt mod too)
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5252
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 12:52    Post subject:  

My vga adapter cost ~fiver from CPC(Farnell) and runs direct from HDMI into an HANNS G 19" monitor without external power. The little box undoubtedly contains 'electronics'. In principal, it is possible to tap off tiny amounts of power from any signal source but no idea how this one works (it is sealed,otherwise the screws would've been removed upon delivery!) Haven't managed to display RPi through a DVI connection, yet, but these are an even bigger can o' worms than HDMI. Nope - Eben got it wrong, should've been an onboard vga connector for the intended porpoises(sic).
Last edited by Sage on Fri 21 Oct 2016, 15:04; edited 1 time in total
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DavidS

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 12:55    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
DavidS wrote:
There is a simple VGA available for the RPi, it is easy to put together using 15 resisters and a VGA plug, then there is a config.sys setting to use the VGA output as the default video out. I would have to look around the Raspberry Forums to find it again, though I will post a link here once found.
I would be interested to read more about this if it is possible as the hdmi issue is the main reason I have not gone for the Pi.

The second post on this threadoffers reasons why they say passive hdmi to vga is impossible on the Pi (while indicating that it could work on some PC graphics cards that have analog outputs).

And this thread also seems to suggest that a powered hdmi to vga adapter is definitely a requirement for the Pi.

However I get the impression from these posts that an old monitor that has a DVI input could be run from the Pi via a passive cable.

EDIT : There seem to be some very cheap ($5) cables some people are using to change Pi hdmi to vga but I guess they must include electronics of some kind? (If so where do they take power from??) Video here (mentions the config.txt mod too)


Here is the main article:
Gert's VGA
And here is a supplier that sells the adaptor pre-made:
Gert VGA 666

Note that you do lose most of the GPIO pins, that is the tradeoff, as the video signal uses 20 of them.

It costs about $1.50 USD in parts to make the adapter.
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DavidS

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 13:09    Post subject:  

Ok Sound now seems stable on the RPi 3B, using CEA video, even though it meant switching monitors as my main monitor would not work with CEA at all.

So puppy seems to have some kind of trouble with DMT video with audio on the signal, something that may be worth looking into.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5252
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 15:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
Here is the main article:
Gert's VGA


Couple of points: a resistive unit does not involve a DAC.That conversion must already be present on the board as there is analogue OP on the 4-pin jack? Neither vast power consumption nor pots of dosh should therefore be required? Apart from that, a through-pin adapter is 99p for the GPIO (or make your own with Veroboard) so pins are not 'lost'.
As I said, my adapter was ~five quid. It plugs directly into the std. HDMI skt.
All this confusion, cost, workaround and fudge would've been unnecessary if Eben got it right first time - or even second or third time, for that matter.

P.S. D.S. - tell us where you are! gg is in NZ so we know morning of the 22nd has arrived for him.
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DavidS

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 16:20    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Quote:
Here is the main article:
Gert's VGA


Couple of points: a resistive unit does not involve a DAC.That conversion must already be present on the board as there is analogue OP on the 4-pin jack? Neither vast power consumption nor pots of dosh should therefore be required? Apart from that, a through-pin adapter is 99p for the GPIO (or make your own with Veroboard) so pins are not 'lost'.
As I said, my adapter was ~five quid. It plugs directly into the std. HDMI skt.
All this confusion, cost, workaround and fudge would've been unnecessary if Eben got it right first time - or even second or third time, for that matter.

P.S. D.S. - tell us where you are! gg is in NZ so we know morning of the 22nd has arrived for him.

Look up a resistor lader DAC. The signal from the GPIO's for the VGA is pure digital, and thus the resistors do form a Resistor Lader DAC, that is how we get the analog signal for the VGA.

Come on this is very basic electronics.

I am unfortunately in the USA, in Arizona (good state if in the USA), middle of nowhere in the desert mountains.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8140
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 20:47    Post subject:  

DavidS wrote:
There is a simple VGA available for the RPi, it is easy to put together using 15 resisters and a VGA plug, then there is a config.sys setting to use the VGA output as the default video out. I would have to look around the Raspberry Forums to find it again, though I will post a link here once found.

On sound:
I lost the sound again, nothing should have changed. I think I will try to get this monitor to accept CEA HDMI signal, as that may be the issue. Sound works well on all other OS'e with DMT video signal, though there seems to be something strange with Puppy and sound.

And I do not think that any one else using Puppy Linux is using DMT video.


I have not yet sorted out the settings in config.txt.

I have had other devices connected to my TV that have "just worked".

Anyway, I think that I had sound and video both working with this:

hdmi_force_hotplug=1
hdmi_group=1

_________________
http://barryk.org/news/
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DavidS

Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Oct 2016, 21:19    Post subject:  

@BerryK:

That then fits what I found. hdmi_group=1 is CEA, the more common for HDMI media devices, hdmi_group=2 is DMT, more common with DVI, though still used in HDMI.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5252
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2016, 04:23    Post subject:  

D.S. : When I was at school the only digital anything was Morse code! More recently, when I want DAC I buy a little box or chip labelled DAC and look up the wiring diagramme on the InterWeb. Besides which, any electronics I've learnt has been self-taught on-the-hoof, i.e. with big holes.
Arizona is full of old folks like me, isn't it? And crooks trying to to fleece them?! Nice climate - done the Grand Canyon. But, why not just amend your profile? If you're sensitive about your exactly location you could just say N. America, although West Coast, East ditto, or, in your case, Mountain time. It helps threads like this one in particular to know when the discussion will continue.
Apart from that, you'll be wanting BarryK and R.ladder DAC.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4606
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2016, 14:12    Post subject:  

Quote:
don570 wrote:

5) no nano app



all Quirkies, and pups probably, have 'mp'.


Is there a way to launch mp when typing in console
Code:
nano file.txt


such as a link or wrapper.
___________________________________

compiling nano with
Quote:
.configure --prefix=/usr --enable-tiny


keeps the size to 25k but all the good features are lost.
_____________________________________________________
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4606
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2016, 14:38    Post subject:  

Another suggestion ...

If you are looking to keep the distro small--->

Instead of including Open office, you should offer a portable version to download from ibiblio .

I assume portable versions of apps use static libraries which makes them bigger but more flexible.

However they can be installed in /opt and then launched with the start menu.
This is how I use Blender in linux. I download the zip file and decompress into /opt

https://www.blender.org/download/
________________________________

Last edited by don570 on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 14:46; edited 1 time in total
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2016, 14:45    Post subject:  

DavidS wrote:
Look up a resistor lader DAC.
hey, thanks for the tip. Very interesting indeed.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4606
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct 2016, 15:06    Post subject:  

I found a possible error in Quirky Xerus

Procedure:

When right clicking on a music file there is 'Open With' menu item (see below)




When I chose pmusic it assumed the mp3 file was an internet radio station rather than
a music file. Also read my pmusic suggestion for more info

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=929534#929534

________________________________________________________

Last edited by don570 on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 16:38; edited 2 times in total
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