Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Tue 27 Jun 2017, 12:08
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
corepup
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 3 of 27 [397 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., 25, 26, 27 Next
Author Message
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 14:50    Post subject:  

tinycore has the jwm rox2 option
as well as
abiword geany leafpad (i put in gtkedit and e3)
emelfm1 and emelfm2
firefox and firefoxESR
vlc
viewnoir
busybox ash bash
gcc tcc
nasm
etc
most of the basic stuff in puppy

but what really makes a puppy
is the involvement of the puppy community
its their creative and innovative input
puppy has taken many forms over the years
but its the people and ideas that make it unique
this is just a great base for a new version of puppy (and tinycore)

wanderer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1111
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 14:59    Post subject:  

Cool rant,,,,, wanderer Laughing Laughing Laughing !!!

This is quite motivating.....,,,,, so,,.. keep on rocking!! ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 15:16    Post subject:  

so here is the deal guys

who's up for making a community edition of puppy
starting with a tinycore base

if you want to follow this
post a comment on this thread
and say hi

the first step is to go to the tinycore site
download the iso and read (as much as you want to)
of the the documentation

then come back to this thread and post you thoughts and ideas

all are welcome
remember everyone is part of our community
do not be afraid
if an idiot like me can figure this out
anyone can

see you all soon

wanderer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1111
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 15:35    Post subject:  

I am no Linux-Puppy expert ....just a bloody beginner ..... so i can not contribute much to that experiment... except testing .

...but i like your proposal....
it sounds new and fresh and enthusiastic.

I think this is somehow the meaning of ,let me call it ... "Puppy Spirit ".
The Power of the Puppy Community .

Thumbs up !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 15:42    Post subject:  

backi

great to have you with us

you do us great honor by being the first to join

thanks for your support

wanderer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2992
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 15:54    Post subject: Puppy is, simply, ill since a lot of time...  

wanderer, not angry, Puppy is ill.

see pls what did happen with the LazY generation...

nobody did see that it is the most modern Linux concept at all.

nobody did help Rainer to transmit his great knowledge to some kind of «woof»

we get absurd variants of Puppy one after the next, but you can not any more build a powerful complete environment with Puppy because the tree of Puppy variants is to big and the errors are never eradicated...

BK did in the past specify in tutors what is the way.

this GREAT tools is now old and not directly applicable to new versions, so that new and young users like baki seems to be have major difficulties to enter the system.

The last Puppy base (in the past named "onebone" or so!) starting as iso really for use in RAM? It is a long time...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 15:59    Post subject:  

oui

i just realized what you are saying

yes there are many variants
and much work seems to get lost
but i really dont think one size can fit all

i tried a lot of the variants and none of them worked on my system
in fact everything after 217 that Barry K made
did not work well for me

ttuuxx's TOP 9 worked great for many years
but then the browser got out of date

i tried to use woof and actually built 3 distros
but each took a whole day and had stuff missing at the end
and i couldnt tell what was happening because it was all automated

i dont think a giant program to build everything is the way to go

the idea of linux is many small pieces
that can be put together in an infinite number of ways

it took me a day to understand tinycore
and a couple of minutes to modify it

until the woof-ce guys make a program
to transparently builds a minimal base
and then adds things incrementally
most people will not be able to use it
or even figure it out

until then tinycore fits the bill

in fact tinycore is actually a better design
because i feel the union file thing is a flaw

as to how many people need to be involved in each project
to make it a success the answer is 1
and for this project
that person is me
and now i have backi to annoy

however
it would be nice if you gave us your input
because you possess great expertise in this area

hope to hear from you soon

wanderer

Last edited by wanderer on Wed 14 Sep 2016, 21:25; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1163

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 21:02    Post subject: Re: Puppy is, simply, ill since a lot of time...  

wanderer wrote:
so here is the deal guys

who's up for making a community edition of puppy
starting with a tinycore base

So you mean like Slacko and Tahr, but with Tinycore repositories instead? Or does tinycore use repositories from somewhere else? I'm very confused by what you're even asking. Puppy is the base, what would go on top if you use tiny "core"? I looked at the tinycore page and it said the version with wireless was now 106MB, but the one without is 16MB. Where's the logic in that?

oui wrote:
we get absurd variants of Puppy one after the next, but you can not any more build a powerful complete environment with Puppy because the tree of Puppy variants is to big and the errors are never eradicated...

I don't know any "absurd variants" and they generally don't have any big errors. Sounds like an empty rant based on nothing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2016, 21:24    Post subject:  

hi sailor

tinycore has its own repositories of tcz extensions
and its members build them
like puppys sfs files

dcore uses debian repositories
which are made into tcz
(in this case they are called sce)

the core is very small
but as you add stuff of course things get bigger

its not the final size that matters
since everyone will determine what they want

what matters is that the core is very small and simple
and the additions are modular
so that every piece can be built and maintained
in a straight forward manner

what i am suggesting is that everyone who is interested
go to the tinycore site
download the iso and play with it
and then post on this thread their ideas and observations

i have made 3 tcz which are sfs files
its very easy to do

any puppy sfs or pet could be made into a tcz file
and then used in tinycore
also the core can be modified and puppy stuff can be added there

its also important that this be a community project
and anyone can participate
by modifying something
or just adding their opinion
otherwise i would never have started this thread
and would have just done this on my own

I look forward to hear from everyone who is interested

wanderer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1111
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 00:43    Post subject:  

Hi wanderer !
I think there is a lot of truth in oui`s comment above .Especially regarding Rainers Lazy Puppy.

I dont see your efforts and what you are saying so negative as Sailor Encladus reply to oui`s comment about " absurd Puppy variants ".
It is not meant to degrade other puppies or the work of other people here.... i know .......i see this more as a bit of "provokation" to stimulate people to get off their asses ....and do experimenting in a new direction ( as these guys from Debian Dog and Mint Dog project did .My deepest respect for them).The main problem with DebDog and MintDog..... is.... they almost work perfect .
So i am looking for something new ...a new day ...a new challenge .

Puppi is a work in progress .
I have to use my "intuition " my seventh sense somehow ..because of a lack of technical understanding....your ideas are just alerting my " senses ".
Maybe what you achieve to do will fail somehow .But it has some pioneer spirit .
You have a lot of arguments ....i am not the One to prove them wrong or right .
But one thing is for sure ......no one can accuse you of " you did not even try "
Nevertheless ...Puppy community and Forum i think is the best of them all .Best people ,best support ,first class ... i really like it .
There are some interesting experiments going on from rufwoof in his project
making Debian or Ubuntu frugal and to puppify them .
Have a look here :
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107753
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 2856

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 03:23    Post subject:  

wanderer wrote:

the core is very small
but as you add stuff of course things get bigger

its not the final size that matters
since everyone will determine what they want

what matters is that the core is very small and simple
and the additions are modular
so that every piece can be built and maintained
in a straight forward manner
<snip>
i have made 3 tcz which are sfs files
its very easy to do

wanderer,
What do you think is wrong with tinycore as it is right now?
What do you think puppy can add to it that official tinycore is not interested in/objects to adding?

Please be specific because even at your 3rd (4th?) thread calling for a "puppycore" I still can not understand.
Please do not tell us how you envision puppy will be different.
Tell us how you imagine tinycore to be different after successful completion of such a project.

_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 900

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 04:08    Post subject:  

Something big is happening here. The closest historical analogy pales in comparison. I mean the one about an ancient tribe wandering in the wilderness for 40 years ... eating locusts and wild honey.
Let my people go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A07tDouATcE
Very impressive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1111
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 04:14    Post subject:  

Hi mavrothal !
" Tell us how you imagine tinycore to be different after successful completion of such a project."
I think your questions are legit .But asking for a final result ....?
Let see it as an new idea ,could be a seed for a possible experiment....
Wanderer just invites people to join in and share their knowledge and ideas .
That`s legit too .
Maybe it does not work .
But one thing is for sure ......no one can accuse him of " he did not even try "

Hi wanderer !
Did install Tiny Core Plus to a USB Stick and start playing with it.
To explain what i am looking for :

A small core -no or only a few apps installed -working for absolute beginners.
I am very interested in- not installing Programms-Apps ----instead loading them on demand like in Puppie`s sfs load to keep the core basically untouched (if possible) externalizing drivers and apps outside the base (if possible) .
The approach is somehow modular ....brick by brick .

Last edited by backi on Thu 15 Sep 2016, 04:31; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Robert123

Joined: 20 May 2016
Posts: 292
Location: Pacific

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 04:28    Post subject:  

Dependencies install to /usr/local eg /usr/local/lib so in an old pup to make an updated package use the updated glibc from inycore because it installs to a different path than Puppy - useful been trying it in Guydog.
_________________
Runs Stardust 013, AnitaOS 431 version - AnitaOS for retro hardware based on 4.31 but heavily updated:http://sourceforge.net/projects/anitaos/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2016, 05:02    Post subject:  

I really shouldn't comment here. This subject repeats in Puppy history.

What I see, though, it almost a divide between those with knowledge and those who use the productions of those with knowledge.

I have always understood the intent of the WOOF series. I have seen other system builders from other distros that do creditable jobs in generating Linux systems for users and have used 2. They work too. SUSE is one that stood out as I remember.

The discussion which repeat in this forum is one of what should a PUP base be. Dont quote me, but, I can see why @BarryK stepped out of the forum. It is difficult to appease the many opposing views that member have especially when we consider the many "opposing" skills that members have, not to mention the many languages, the many personalities, the many ...

So here we are again questioning what a starting point should be like and what it should look like.

Here's one view: In present day PUPs, experienced users can remove anything they dislike. They have this skillset and it is also built into PUPs base structure. So, experience user should have no problem in disassembly. New Windows/Apple users who are looking to try or use Linux as a replacement desktop do not have these skills. As such, a distro like several of the ones here in Puppyland which bring a lot of functionality are the ones most helpful to them. It allows them to have similar subsystems they are used to (SAMBA for example), use multimedia they are used to, have Languages they are used to, interact with the internet in ways they are used to, etc.

Modern PUPs achieve what Barry sort: A replacement platform for Windows users that is simple easy and straight-forward. without being left behind as technology and platforms change.

I think, that this thread could really benefit by, first, addressing WHO THEY WANT TO USE what the thread's title suggests. This is the real issue, IMHO because I have seen so many different members with "opposing" views of who distros should be developed for.

The size thing, is one of those things which is stuck in past views many cannot shake. In reality I believe given a choice new and young members getting started would much prefer to establish a learning curve on a robust system versus one that is not. This is in view that most of us will select an assembled PC versus taking all the parts and going home to assemble everything into a working unit, especially, in light of all the things that could go wrong. Assembly differs from person to person, but, given an assemble unit the game starts there and moves forward.

I have work with a lot of very very smart people. They have the same problems we have. 1 year after writing code, they cannot remember what or how they did it. Thus, to go back, is a reset requiring them to start over in understanding. I think most of us can identify with this as it affect everyone of us.

So, for this thread, who are we trying to rebuild for? Then how should it look? Should it combine where PUPPY is today? Or should it be a reset and start all over again?

Remember 2 things: When things do change (and they will), somewhere down the road we will have this discussion again. And in today's world, lets stop talking about size. Its an irrelevant discussion that have been around kicked about since before S/360 (yes I was around before then). Yet, in just my lifetime you cannot possibly imagine the size changes I have seen in just the technology space and the reactions from colleagues on size. It took me a decade to realize this and to come to grips that size increases for our benefit. Mankind's brain size seemingly is continuing to grow as well and who knows, 2000 years from now, will our brains be double in size?

One way of looking at where we are is to understand that WOOFCE is a "fork" for producing today's modern PUPs. With this thread, it could be conceived to be asking for something similar. If so, it will have to managed somehow and GIT may still be found to be the best way.

I will ride the wave no matter which direction it takes, as long as it is beneficial in both scope and use.

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engines or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 27 [397 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., 25, 26, 27 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0698s ][ Queries: 14 (0.0054s) ][ GZIP on ]